Thread Number: 91608  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Why Do All Speed Queens Spray Rinse While Full of Water?
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Post# 1161266   10/7/2022 at 02:51 (427 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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At first I thought it was a fluke, simple timer specification error or water evacuation miscalculation on my Speed Queen. Then again I did turn up the water level on my machine, so maybe they were taking that into account the tub being only 2/3 full. So it would make sense why my machine always starts spraying water while the tub is about 1/3 full of water. Ok, makes sense. Kind of, but good enough.


However, looking at timer model, electronic, TC-5 and even TR machine the spray rinse always begins with the tub about 1/4 full of water. In fact when all variable are taken into account, it seems like Speed Queen deliberately programmed their machine to add water at exactly the point the tub dips to 1/5 water. This holds true for all cycles, including normal eco.

My question is why? Why not let the machine reach full spin speed and then do a 30 second spray rinse? Whilrpool, GE, Frigidaire, Maytag, ect all let the pump first start pulling in air even worse case scenario.


36:52 is a perfect example:





Ok, I get it, water was added to the tub and its only rags. 7:44, correct water level for the water, same thing:






15:28:






I can post 100+ videos of this exact same phenomenon in 12 different models over a 25 year production period.

My question is why? What benefit does it serve when the water doesn't even go through the clothes?

It gets weirder in that the tech sheets and service manuals relevant to timer models actually list the spray starting in the second increment or 3 minutes in yet all real life scenarios put the spray in the first increment at about 1 minute out from the start of the drain.

Is someone at Speed Queen making last minute changes behind the backs of engineers? I don't think a spray rinse should start so early.


Post# 1161267 , Reply# 1   10/7/2022 at 03:54 (427 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        

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The only logical reason I can think of is that the early spray rinse washes some of the lint/hair off of the clothes before being pinned to the inner tub at full speed. Spray rinsing while the tub is trying to speed up is an overall bad idea in my personal opinion. It's hard on the belt for the models that use it for clutching and it's hard on the clutch/clutch packs. It certainly doesn't do the motor any good.

Post# 1161274 , Reply# 2   10/7/2022 at 06:26 (426 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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IMHO I can't see 15 extra seconds of tub drag being that much compared to the 90 seconds of tub dragging during the drain. However, I do agree with you, I think it doesn't do much overall.

Post# 1161276 , Reply# 3   10/7/2022 at 08:01 (426 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
OK Dumb question coming up ...

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Why use 2nd rinse when it then rinses out all the fabric softener you put in the dispenser? Would it not be better to add during the 1st rinse so it would be used in the last rinse?

Post# 1161292 , Reply# 4   10/7/2022 at 16:22 (426 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        

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That's basically an issue with any top loader that uses a non electronically actuated fabric dispenser solenoid.

These machines also spray rinse on the final spin, something carried over from the belt drives. It probably rinses out a bit of the softener out as well.


Post# 1161296 , Reply# 5   10/7/2022 at 17:12 (426 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, Thereīs a Lady on Stage)        

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"Why use 2nd rinse when it then rinses out all the fabric softener you put in the dispenser?"

One simple answer dryer fabric softener sheets.









American housewives and others who did laundry long had an issue with top loading automatic washing machines, use of liquid fabric softeners was either inconvenient or otherwise a bother. Once some clever chop came up with fabric softener sheets that could be used in dryers, problem was largely solved.

Would have to research further but believe for years now fabric softener sheets have outsold liquid or other washer based products.

From a design point of top loading washers, those spray rinses during final spin do serve a purpose I suppose. They certainly cut down on what might be less than optimal results from just one deep rinse.

Going back some top loaders sold in USA had option for second deep rinse. That seemed to have gone by the boards with sprays during final spin replacing. If research tells washing machine makers that consumers largely are going to use dryer sheets....


Post# 1161320 , Reply# 6   10/8/2022 at 03:08 (426 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

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Has someone here actually ever tried and succeeded to rinse out fabric softener from fabrics with plain water only?

Post# 1161321 , Reply# 7   10/8/2022 at 03:18 (426 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
Spray Rinse In Last Spin

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My guess is that in the event someone used to much detergent the spray rinse would knock down any remaining suds after the deep rinse. In turn reducing complaints of machines not rinsing well. Consumers don't know how machines work. Just the final product at the end. Whirlpool knew how to protect their brand image.

Post# 1161325 , Reply# 8   10/8/2022 at 07:24 (425 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
spray rinsing while full

What were they thinking when Speed Queen spray rinsed laundry while on heavy duty when full of water? If you use fabric softener, it will cary over into the laundry detergent water! That doesn't make any common sense.

Post# 1161326 , Reply# 9   10/8/2022 at 07:38 (425 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
Common Sense

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Is only common to those who have it. Given Speed Queens attitude about the TR, theirs is lacking...



Whirlpool listens however. On their Coin-OP resource saver washer they actually do a full 2 minute drain before going into spin and spray rinsing incrementally.


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Post# 1161329 , Reply# 10   10/8/2022 at 08:14 (425 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
slow spin

I am so sick and tired of the slow spin on the heavy duty cycle before rinse. It doesn't get all the soapy water out! I have had no issues with drain pipe foam! What were they thinking?

Post# 1161339 , Reply# 11   10/8/2022 at 10:09 (425 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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As someone once told me "the problem isn't what they think, its that they don't think"

I'm with you, my 2014 Queen drains on high, and there isn't any foaming in the drain pipe. I mean, isn't that why HE detergent now exists?


Post# 1161347 , Reply# 12   10/8/2022 at 10:57 (425 days old) by Gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)        

I have a ten year old SQ that doesn't start spraying until the water is out. Very much like an old Maytag.

The old solid tub Kelvy's used to start a hot water spray the moment the first spin started that lasted well up to the tub reaching the top of the spin. One would think that would have created a lot of stress, but, they seemed to plough through without any issues. Consider how high-sudzing detergents were back then and the vigorous agitation of the Kelvy, and you would think it would all end up with sudz-lock, but, I never saw that.


Post# 1161416 , Reply# 13   10/9/2022 at 08:48 (424 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN)        

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This has always bothered me, as well. And those are two of my videos. :)

Post# 1161453 , Reply# 14   10/9/2022 at 17:36 (424 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
They spray water in as the machine is almost drained

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To reduce the possibility of scum and lint on top the clothing, it also helps kill suds and cools the fabrics a little bit.



All spin drain machines have the potential to leave scum and lint plastered on clothing.



Conventional Speed Queen top load automatics sold in other countries often have neutral drain because they donít use dryers and Speed Queen is aware of this problem with lint and scum on clothing.


Post# 1161454 , Reply# 15   10/9/2022 at 17:57 (424 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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All the lint and scum I've seen made itself known in neutral drain washers. And it shows as it builds up on the water line of the agitator, inner tub and outer tub as a whole. I don't have scum lines on my Speed Queen and never saw them on GE FFs and Maytags. Whirlpools and post FF GEs tend to have thick calcified rings.


Setting up a cycle to spray at the exact instant the clothes become uncovered by water is a pointless effort in that to many variables come into play to achieve the desired results. Pump out time, loading, water level, tolerances, ect all come together resulting in either water entering the tub while still full or completely drained and fully accelerated.


Best time to spray rinse is 2 to 3 minutes after spin has started, this will be enough time to allow for a reasonable worse case pump out.


Post# 1161461 , Reply# 16   10/9/2022 at 19:04 (424 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Chat you are amazing

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With the problem of spin drain being mentioned in GE service manuals for Filter Flow washers, in service manuals for Maytag washers, in-service manuals for speed queen washers, and we all know what happened when Whirlpool tried to pull a fast one and make a spin and drain direct drive washer it was a disaster. Whirlpool was taking back washers left and right customers are returning them to Sears.

For all the reading and research you do and you can come up with a totally bizarre opinion of things this is why most people ignore your posts.

And because youíve never listed any qualifications that you have, it really is just all emotional and thatís not the way engineering is done in this world.

Your constant childish obsession with one dial washers and machines that donít even need thermostats etc. etc. itís just ridiculous enjoy.

John Al


Post# 1161464 , Reply# 17   10/9/2022 at 19:43 (424 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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That would be true- if I didn't have first hand experience laundering clothes.


Can you post pics or copy and paste these excerpts from all 3 companies?


I don't see people noticing when their DDs stop neutral draining, assuming they did in the first place.

Its not the one knobs I'm passionate about, but across the line induction motors which probably would have spared Maytag. Since you brought up thermostats you and I both know most GE dishwashers never had one (except in the motor) which was among one of the many cost and reliability measures which helped get them in millions of homes.


You're choosing to ignore facts. And like all to many tenured persons in 2022 you chose to ignore individual experiences by quipping 'you don't have the credentials I have' Well, that logic won't make you a better chef... Or get the TC series to clean clothes...




Post# 1161475 , Reply# 18   10/9/2022 at 22:16 (424 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
Engineering Done In This World

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I'll let the experts talk since I lack the credentials to opine:


"Dryers are simple, humble machines that do three things: tumble the clothes, get Ďem warm, and move a lot of air. Why would you want or even need an over-priced failure-prone ďelectronic control systemĒ for a frigginí dryer? I can almost understand it for a refrigerator or a gourmet oven, but a dryer? Putting an electronic control board in a dryer is like installing a GPS nav system on a kidís tricycle. Enough! Stop the madness! Friends donít let friends buy dryers loaded with over-blown electronic crap."


"You can usually tell youíre dealing with one of these puffed-up beasts (also sold under the Ken*** label) because itíll have the words ďEven HeatĒ somewhere on the control panel. This dryer is a perfect example of how buying appliances with needless and overblown electronics is hazardous to your financial health."


fixitnow.com/wp/2009/03/17/easy-...


Tell me, what is gained here?

If modern day professional precept involves compelling engineers to invest tenacity into integrating unnecessary complexity into timeless, proven, wholly satisfactory simplicity you can bet your top dollar I'm going to challenge the inevitable shortcomings of those ideas. You can bet your career I'm going to ask questions and you can bet your reputation I'm going to dream up of a more realistic design. Ones that might appear childish, outlandish or ridiculous to you... even though they've already been proven a monster smash success over a 125 year period prior.


Which takes me back to Speed Queen. Its not bizarre to say my own personal experience involves less lint then the DD I had or that the spin spray starts to early.


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Post# 1161476 , Reply# 19   10/9/2022 at 22:55 (424 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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Love my dryer with electronic moisture sensing.† Very consistent results from load-to-load, lightweight to jeans, sheets to blankets.† No need to make a guess at drying time.† Choose a cycle per the appropriate temperature, Start, done.


Post# 1161481 , Reply# 20   10/9/2022 at 23:27 (424 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        

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"With the problem of spin drain being mentioned in GE service manuals for Filter Flow washers, in service manuals for Maytag washers, in-service manuals for speed queen washers..."

I'd like to see evidence of that. I have all of the Maytag service manuals and it's not mentioned in any of them. I also have most of the "Lets Talk Service" manuals from the 50's through the 80's and it's not mentioned there either.

"and we all know what happened when Whirlpool tried to pull a fast one and make a spin and drain direct drive washer it was a disaster. Whirlpool was taking back washers left and right customers are returning them to Sears."

Robert has mentioned several times on this site that LEAKS were the reason for the shift of spin drain to neutral drains in DD's. It had nothing to do with lint. Robert claims to have that documentation on that. This comment can be seen here at Reply #18.

www.automaticwasher.org/c...


Post# 1161483 , Reply# 21   10/9/2022 at 23:58 (424 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        
Reply #20

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Dan, I updated my email on AW since the one I had posted on here was one in havenít used in awhile and didnít realize until now it was an email I no longer use. The one thatís posted is the email I am now using since I sent myself an email earlier and received an email from myself. Apologies for the technical difficulties, not the most tech savvy person in the world, though. You can send a email from that address and will try to respond ASAP.


Post# 1161504 , Reply# 22   10/10/2022 at 15:33 (423 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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@DoDoes: No offense to you, but you have fallen for it my very good friend! :)

The electronic control in question not only senses moisture, but also cycles the heaters through added relays, controls the motor, does the cycle signal, does the wrinkle guard, senses the outgoing temperature and determines cycle timing as a whole. Nearly all of the mechanical timers outputs are literally run through the control board itself.


This is not in any way Whirlpools dryness sensor card that can be bypassed by using the timed dry cycle. Rather this is a full blown control board with the mechanical timer acting as a decoy. There is no way around it.


Yes, the dryness card accomplishes what you're defending. However a full blown central control board, not so much.

In other words there is no way to escape


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Post# 1161510 , Reply# 23   10/10/2022 at 16:42 (423 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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I'm aware of those KA/KM/WP dryers with mechanical timers the EvenHeat board.†


Post# 1161512 , Reply# 24   10/10/2022 at 16:52 (423 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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@Qsd-Dan: John is forgetting all the Maytag advertising and service literature that bragged about their "swirl away drain" Or that I've personally gone to Maytag Home Appliance centers (before the Whirlpool buy out) explicitly being told the advantages of spin-draining by the sales rep, many of whom also worked as service techs and store owners.


John's hubris is making the feel good (for him) assumption that just because I've never sold washers and I've never been a service technician for a living (and I have stated this numerous times on this forum) must mean I've never done laundry, read service manuals, collected tech sheets, done hundreds of hours of research, read patents, took thousands of machines apart, rebuilt a few or have fixed a few major appliances on the side for people that needed them. Which is peanuts compared to power and electronics engineering btw.

When I see modern appliances, my brain automatically flashes these blue and red lines. If you think its bizarre, I'll take that as a compliment :)




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Post# 1161513 , Reply# 25   10/10/2022 at 16:53 (423 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
Even Heat Boards

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Any idea why Whirlpool began adding them to some of their dryers?

Post# 1161527 , Reply# 26   10/10/2022 at 21:30 (423 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Spin drain versus neutral drain top load washers

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Hi Dan in reference to reply Number 20 If you look at the GE service manuals when they change the whole pattern in the sides of the wash basket in the late 60s they talked about the reason they did this was to reduce the amount of streaking on dark colored clothing from lint and detergent residue.

 

It’s a fact that Speed Queen builds conventional top load washers for Australia and Canada with electric train pumps because people don’t use dryers there is often and they get more complaints about the streaking from spin draining.

 

Having been a Maytag tech for and availing myself to the factory training for over 30 years this was often talked about the lint redistribution problem it was not put in manuals very often but there are references to it.

 

Maytag redesigned the balance ring on the dependable care washers when they went to the new tub cover this was to prevent the water from splashing over the edge of the tub and back over the clothing over and over again this was talked about in service training.

 

You can also see in the sales literature for the Norge built Maytag washers where they claimed your clothing would be so much cleaner with less residue in it because of the way the Norge design machine pumps the water out so fast and spin slowly and doesn’t slog the water back through the clothing like the machines they had built for years.

 

. The most ridiculous claim is that whirlpool went to a neutral drain because the initial spin drain direct drive machines leaked.

 

You can look through the Whirlpool service pointers they were and never any leak problems with those machines. But again you would’ve had to have been there and worked with these machines whirlpool did not put a lot of information out about the problem with lint they don’t like to put things like that in print just as Maytag didn’t either because their competitors would make hay about it, but if you talk to the engineers you heard it all the time.

 

I was talking to my old boss last night and I told him what was written and he just had Howells of laughter about that they never had trouble with these machines leaking, my business partner also was just absolutely roaring with laughter when I told him that somebody’s going around saying that was the reason they went to a neutral drain.

 

Whirlpool would not have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars redesigning washing machines because they couldn’t make a seal that kept the tub cover from leaking if that’s where they supposedly leaked, There are probably many millions of direct drive washer‘s running right this minute all over this country that are no longer neutral draining and none of them are leaking.

 

I’m really disappointed that you would even repeat such a ridiculous story it doesn’t bode well for your mechanical reasoning skills.

 

John L




This post was last edited 10/10/2022 at 22:00
Post# 1161528 , Reply# 27   10/10/2022 at 21:35 (423 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Whirlpool built dryers with even heat control boards

combo52's profile picture
Chet this is not for you this is for everybody else thatís wondering why they did this you already know all the answers.

Putting the sophisticated control board in these dryers not only allows very accurate moisture sencing which resulted in fluffy clothing that was not over dried it saved energy it was a big safety advantage because the dryer would not run any longer than necessary.

Itís one of the many things that Have made modern dryers so safe and so unlikely to start fires As well as reducing energy consumption wear and tear on the machine and clothing as well.

John L


Post# 1161530 , Reply# 28   10/10/2022 at 21:47 (423 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
to chetlaham

This is exactly why HE detergents exist!

Post# 1161531 , Reply# 29   10/10/2022 at 22:08 (423 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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Except what you describe can and is accomplished via a simple dryness card.

www.genuinereplacementpar...


I'm talking about the full blown control board I pictured.

Whirlpool did this in part to mitigate the temperature swings of the heater cycling on and off via a mechanical thermostat. Unlike a Breville Smart oven, no such gain exists with a dryer.



Post# 1161532 , Reply# 30   10/10/2022 at 22:13 (423 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Reply number 29

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The even heat control board system will shut down a load within five minutes if itís a text dryness, it will also shut down the dryer if it does not detect dryness within an hour and 10 minutes it wonít run all night if the heating element burns out for example.

The little circuit board that you picture is only a dryness board it will do neither of these things.

Your lack of knowledge about appliances itís just amazing he really oughta do more homework before your post.

John L


Post# 1161533 , Reply# 31   10/10/2022 at 22:21 (423 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
Modern Dryer Safety

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The biggest change in modern dryers (besides physical alterations) to reduce fires has been the addition of thermal fuses. Its was not uncommon for the cycling stat in many heating appliances to weld shut resulting in the high limit taking over. Eventually the high limit inevitably had the same fate where it to welded closed. By adding thermal fuses to the exhaust and heater housing modern dryers have a near 100% reliable fail safe against overheating.

Post# 1161534 , Reply# 32   10/10/2022 at 22:32 (423 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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Shutting down after 5 minutes of dryness (I'm assuming {hoping} this doesn't hold true for the timed cycle which is needed in order to use the Kenmore drying rack) and shutting off after 1 hour 10 minutes of moistness provides no meaningful gain in safety or performance when compared to the added complexity and failure points. Law of diminishing returns.


I'd argue there is more chance of the relays failing closed (relay failure is documented online) than the hazard of waiting for the dryness card to advance the timer to off after no moisture is detected.


Post# 1161557 , Reply# 33   10/11/2022 at 12:28 (422 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
In Case The Obvious Was Missed

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In the picture I posted both capacitors have their tops bulging, which means both caps have failed. This is to be anticipated.


www.xppower.com/resources...

Quoting:

"Manufacturers of electrolytic capacitors specify the design lifetime at the maximum rated ambient temperature, usually 105įC. This design lifetime can vary from as little as 1,000 hours to 10,000 hours or more. The longer the design lifetime, the longer the component will last in a given application and ambient temperature."


There are 8,760 hours in a year. Assuming a quality capacitor under ideal conditions, at 55*C, has an anticipated life between 64,000 and 160,000 hours.


Meaning with every electronic control added to an appliance, manufacturers know that a sizeable percentage will not make it past 15-20 years. The equivalent of adding a button cell battery to every machine that will cease function once the cell loses charge. Where as on the other hand EM timers can be economically made to last 40+ years as seen the real world.


There is no chemical change, degradation of paper or foil, electrolytic leakage ect in a timer motor that is simply copper, iron, and enamel.


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Post# 1161558 , Reply# 34   10/11/2022 at 12:36 (422 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
Capacitors in Storage

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(I can't edit, so forgive just one more post)


"How long do electrolytic capacitors last in storage?

Can electrolytic capacitors, typically greater than 1 inch in length and diameter and used in power supplies, converters and inverters, should have a shelf life of about 20 years, based upon storage temperatures."


finddiffer.com/what-is-the-avera...

20 years.

In other words every electronic control in a machine is a fruit or vegetable waiting to spoil.

Compared to vintage machines which will work to spec 60-80 years after taken out from an unopened box. Do EM timers have a shelf life?



Post# 1161562 , Reply# 35   10/11/2022 at 13:53 (422 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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Iíll just chime in saying that there might be a misconception here how large manufacturers work.
Many of them are very marketing-driven.
Secondly, manufacturing cost-driven.
If marketing says we need electronics to compete with X competitor. Or a focus group leaned towards people wanting to push buttons instead of turn dials, then marketing is absolutely going to press program management to start a project. Which in turn, goes to engineering where they are directed to look at moving timer controls to computer controls. It does not matter if engineering doesnít like computers vs the timers. Unless the group of engineers can factually prove that computers would not save manufacturing costs over market demands, then electronics are inevitable.
This is how they all work. Iíve been at enough companies now and itís exactly the same.
Only in the rare instances when engineering can solve a field issue or provide a solution that a) saves manufacturing cost, or b) provides competitive advantage in the market, will the engineering dept ever get equal say.
The whole world had gone to electronics. They are cheaper, easier to program, do a lot of dynamic functions, some do help the customer. Most save of cost of development. Thereís not even much of a supply chain for mechanical controls anymore.
Sorry.


Post# 1161596 , Reply# 36   10/11/2022 at 21:58 (422 days old) by ryner1988 (Indianapolis)        
Not to jump on the mechanical bandwagon but...

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There is one place in which electronic washers, and other appliances as well for that matter, are severely lacking, and that is in accessibility for those with disabilities, most notably visual impairments.

Back in the day, a blind person had only to put tactile markers on the dials of their appliances in order to make them usable. This could usually be done regardless of brand and features. As an example, I put little bits of tape on my mechanical DD washer, one on the pointer, and then on each on both the 10 and 14 minute markers on the regular cycle, respectively. I just line up the pointer to the cycle by feel and know that I am at the place I wish to be in order to start the cycle, or at least very close. If the tape was to fall off or get dislodged somehow, I know that roughly three quarters of a turn around the dial will get me within the 10-14 minute area of the dial, so that could still work.

On the other hand, some electronic machines, especially the more sophisticated ones with actual moving menus and flat panels, pose a real challenge for me. Some of them are just not usable in my situation. There are phone apps to help with a lot of this, but I would have to be very sure that the app is programmed to work well with the screen reader on my phone, i.e., all app functions properly labeled with text and not pictures representing text. In any case, these app-driven washers like the LG 4000 series front loaders are beyond the price range of many, and the models that don't have the app connectivity force the user to rely on the panel which is at least partially touch screen and inaccessible on its own.

Oddly enough, the VMW machines, while not great in the area of durability, are the most accessible modern machines I've found because they are still all knobs with only one push to start button. The way these washers behave is straightforward and predictable, making them nearly as accessible as the machines of yesterday. They also are the most basic of the electronic machines, so that tells me something.


Post# 1161598 , Reply# 37   10/11/2022 at 23:20 (422 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Using modern washers for sight impaired people

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Very good points Ryne well designed electronic laundry equipment should be able to be used today if it doesnít use touch screens etc. were things move around.

As a dealer of major appliances we deal with this fairly often for our site impaired customers.

But even fully electronic appliances like the dryer thatís being discussed with the even heat board can easily be used by adding a few markings.

My new top-of-the-line Speed Queen frontload washer has a touchpad but each pad has only one function so again itís easy to label it with either braille or little touch bumps so you can identify and make the Desired choices.

A well designed machine can be fully electronic and still user-friendly for people that cannot see the controls.

John


Post# 1161601 , Reply# 38   10/11/2022 at 23:26 (422 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
speed queen

As a blind person, it would be nice if speed queen made washers and dryers that spoke out the cycles and options and what they do in addition to having buttons that you can feel.

Post# 1161642 , Reply# 39   10/12/2022 at 17:35 (421 days old) by ryner1988 (Indianapolis)        
Reply #37

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John, you are quite right regarding the fact that electronic washers need to be well-designed and usable by all. I know it can be done, because it has. In 2007, I attended a center for the blind where they taught adaptive ways of performing various daily living skills, learning technology, etc. They had a washer and dryer set, Whirlpool duets to be exact, that were very accessible. They were electronic but the knob to set cycles had distinctive clicks, the modifier buttons were arranged sensibly and easy to feel, and different tones represented variations in water temperature, soil level, and spin speed. I believe that design went away when the duet line was discontinued, have no idea about Whirlpool FL's accessibility now but I believe they switched to a completely flat control panel. So yes, I am aware electronic washers can be made extremely usable, and it's upsetting that more and more manufacturers are opting for flat panels if not outright touch screens. I mean come on. I'm not a mechanical die-hard by any means but what the heck is wrong with a plain old button? I don't understand why touch screen is becoming so much the norm. Aesthetic appeal maybe?

Post# 1161643 , Reply# 40   10/12/2022 at 17:46 (421 days old) by ryner1988 (Indianapolis)        
Slight correction...

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I guess, thinking back, it was 2009 when I attended the blindness center, not 2007. Forgot I did it too years into college, rather than directly after high school as many people do. I think the duets they had at that time were fairly new, but I'm not sure when the accessibility features were introduced to the line-up, nor the exact year the Duet was discontinued.

Post# 1161661 , Reply# 41   10/12/2022 at 23:03 (421 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        

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"All spin drain machines have the potential to leave scum and lint plastered on clothing."

That's funny, I have never had that problem in 35 years of personally running Maytags.

"Having been a Maytag tech for and availing myself to the factory training for over 30 years this was often talked about the lint redistribution problem it was not put in manuals very often but there are references to it."

Never had those problems.

"Hi Dan in reference to reply Number 20 If you look at the GE service manuals when they change the whole pattern in the sides of the wash basket in the late 60s they talked about the reason they did this was to reduce the amount of streaking on dark colored clothing from lint and detergent residue."

We're discussing Maytag here and you have provided no evidence. You also have provided no evidence for GE or Speed Queen other than "Trust me Bro" promises. Scan and post the articles. Put up or shut up.

"Maytag redesigned the balance ring on the dependable care washers when they went to the new tub cover this was to prevent the water from splashing over the edge of the tub and back over the clothing over and over again this was talked about in service training."

Evidence, please. Maytag redesigned the tub cover because it was much faster and easier to remove/install vs the older style. It's a nice design but the cover gasket doesn't last nearly as along as the older triangular seal. There's also no adjustment that I know of in the newer style tub cover to compensate for damper pads that glued a bit down or off center like the older design. I just checked to the upper portion of my tub cover, there's no dirt, scum, or deposits under there. I must be doing something right.


Post# 1161766 , Reply# 42   10/15/2022 at 08:37 (418 days old) by bewitched (Italy)        

from the picture of the electronic board I could say you have to change the electrolytics as they seem leaking.

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Post# 1161793 , Reply# 43   10/16/2022 at 06:53 (417 days old) by Pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
might not be related to the subject

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i have a maytag washer nut the washer i have the way its made it dispense the fabric softner on the second rinse if the option is on it also depends on model you have or buy since electronics are not the same depending on the model of washer or brand

Post# 1161810 , Reply# 44   10/16/2022 at 14:44 (417 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
Leaked Caps

chetlaham's profile picture
@Bewitched: You are correct. The caps have leaked, an inevitable early failure which I am being told is justifiable based on being able to shut off early if the heater burned out.


Because in the end, why would anyone deserve this happening to them? >>>


www.reddit.com/r/BuyItFor...


www.reddit.com/r/BuyItForLife/co...



The 40 year old GE dryer:


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Post# 1161824 , Reply# 45   10/16/2022 at 19:59 (417 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
40 year old GE electric dryer

combo52's profile picture
I donít think you couldíve picked up potentially more dangerous dryer.

It was very common for the heating elements to short out in the zone ground to the housing or to the second heating element.

Thereís no safety thermostat or thermal fuse on The right side of the heater circuit.

So you take a 15 to 20 year old GE dryer where the timer hasnít worked for a year or so and a slightly clogged vent the user puts a load of clothing in either runs to pick up the kids or heaven for bid goes to sleep or falls asleep with the dryer running and youíll be lucky if you wake up you could wipe out a whole family and a house from the resulting fire once the vent tubing catches fire and the clothing of course is already burning.

No thank you Iíll take the dryer with the circuit board that at least controls a potentially dangerous appliance

John L


Post# 1161827 , Reply# 46   10/16/2022 at 21:02 (417 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
Now your thinking! :)

chetlaham's profile picture
In your example the soft heat control board still won't fully protect occupants because 1 hour and 10 minutes would need to elapse before 2,700 watts of heat (heater coil shorted in the center) are disconnected. Yes you have a thermal fuse on the blower housing that would drop the motor and in turn the right side of the heater, but that relies on air flow from a relatively unobstructed vent.

My solution to this would be what Maytag did: add a double pole high limit on the heater housing, switching both sides of the heating element:

www.applianceaid.com/imag...

In conjunction with two thermal fuses on each leg of the heater as the assumption I make being that all high limits will eventually weld themselves closed.


Most US dryer manufacturers made and still make this awful mistake of not having any type of comprehensive thermal protection on the right side of of the heater circuit, even major players like Whirlpool:

www.applianceaid.com/imag...


To me this is unspeakable and should never have been allowed. 240 volts in the US is 120 volts to ground. Even then a person should never rely on polarization in a 230 volt L-N system.

But thats point I've been trying to make all along. Dryer fires can be eliminated via low cost passive measures vs complex and unreliable schemes which in of give rise to other shortcomings.

I'll take more thermal fuses over anything else, but it seems like it take gobs of dryers fires to get people to look past dogma.


Post# 1161830 , Reply# 47   10/16/2022 at 21:35 (417 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
And in defence of that GE dryer ;)

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Technically there is a safety thermostat on the right side of the heater circuit. The motor's neutral is run through it and its mounted to the heater's housing.


If the heater hosing did begin to overheat from a grounded heater the high limit would open dropping the left side of the heater, while the safety stat would then open dropping the motor which would cause the centrifugal switch to open the right side of the heater.

If anything having the safety on the heater housing or more ideal than whirlpool placing it on the exhaust blower.


-----But-----


Its all a moot point either way. Murphy's law has the final say. From my view of the world:

1) relays weld themselves closed
2) triacs fail shorted
3) timer contacts weld closed
4) centrifugal switches fail to open
5) cycling stats weld shut
6) high limits weld shut
7) thermistors read as they please
8) motor burn out
9) non discrete failure modes come knocking with vengeance
10) there is no such thing as zero volts to ground

As such the only common sense solution IMO is to have thermal fuses on both sides of each heating element, with at least two on the theater hosing and at least two on the blower housing. Yet somehow this is to expensive, but a touch screen is always attainable.





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Post# 1161853 , Reply# 48   10/17/2022 at 13:57 (416 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        

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Maybe they should put a overheat buzzers in dryers where they use a double throw switch on the high limit safety thermostat and if it were to trip, it would sound a buzzer and shut the machine off to let the user know that thereís a airflow pro with either a full lint screen or restricted vent. Definitely would encourage people to have the venting clean along with cleaning the lint screen after each load.

Post# 1161860 , Reply# 49   10/17/2022 at 16:54 (416 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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I can imagine something like that coming about, but with electronics.

I remember Kenmore had a whistle device that would sense the air pressure before and after the lint filter and would alert if the screen had not been cleaned.


Smart idea.


Post# 1161861 , Reply# 50   10/17/2022 at 17:10 (416 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        
Reply #49

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I believe some of the 1956 and 1957 Kenmore dryers had a light that would illuminate letting the user know to clean the lint screen.



Post# 1161863 , Reply# 51   10/17/2022 at 18:16 (416 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
A Good Idea

chetlaham's profile picture
Kind of like Kenmore Vacuums. They had a red light come on when the bag was full. I think Kenmore sold the best vacuums on earth. I have one of their last uprights from 2012. I love it.

Post# 1161867 , Reply# 52   10/17/2022 at 19:05 (416 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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Some KA dryers have the lint-alert whistle.† I can't say about Whirlpool-branded units.


Post# 1161880 , Reply# 53   10/18/2022 at 01:25 (416 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah)        

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I think Kenmore sold some good vacuums, maybe not the very best but I would still buy one today. Keep in mind that Kenmore is just a brand, they have other manufactures that make vacuums and other machines for Kenmore. Example Panasonic, they've made vacuums for many years under the Kenmore brand but they've also sold vacuums themselves as well. Mainly at vacuum stores where Panasonic had put more money into their machines to make them even better. I totally would've bought a Panasonic over a Kenmore.

Post# 1161910 , Reply# 54   10/18/2022 at 06:42 (415 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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What do you think of this vacuum? Its the one I have as of 2012. I love, love, love it.


www.mercari.com/us/item/m...


You know more about vacuums than I do, however when it comes to major appliances I humbly chose Kenmore. While they are made by others like Whirlpool; Sears had tremendous control over the features, cycles, build quality, and just about anything else imaginable. I often found the best features for the lowest prices on Kenmore machines. Cycles and features not found on other brands. Having a company like Sears who knew what consumers wanted and a company like Whirlpool who knew how to build working mechanics meant a win-win product that had it all for the price.


Post# 1161911 , Reply# 55   10/18/2022 at 07:10 (415 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Kenmore branded Appliance build quality

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There was never any difference in build quality of Kenmore appliances and the appliances that the manufacture built for their own brand.

The Kenmore brand did have some pretty good appliances at one point, but their stoves are always crap their dishwashers were crap until whirlpool came into the picture in the mid 80s.

The last decade or two of appliances got really bad because they literally had eight different companies making them, and you could no longer count on the Kenmore brand giving you a great product it was just a crapshoot.

John L


Post# 1161913 , Reply# 56   10/18/2022 at 08:40 (415 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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If it's for the den, I'd look into electric underfloor heating. Heating up the garage is a very inefficient way to attempt to get the den warmer. You would use a lot of energy and the result might not be too great. You'd have to heat up the garage to a quite high temperature.

Post# 1161930 , Reply# 57   10/18/2022 at 14:40 (415 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah)        
Made by Panasonic

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That vacuum was alright, not my favorite because it uses a direct drive brushroll. I wished Kenmore was still selling their Professional 12 & 15 uprights because those were in my humble opinion the best Kenmore upright vacuums ever sold. They were made in Germany like when Kenmore had their front load washers made in Germany at one point. But those vacuums were made by Sebo. They make and sell professional commercial grade vacuums for hotels, offices, schools, churches, etc. They are like the Speed Queen of vacuums! Anyways, I wished Sears was still selling them because they use belts that are guaranteed for life. The purpose of direct drive brushrolls is they never use belts, they use a motor to drive the brushroll. But they were proven to be problematic and I never found them to clean as well or better than belt drived brushrolls. That's why Panasonic themselves quit making direct drive brushrolls on their own vacuums. I have a couple of Professional 12 uprights and they're one of my all time favorites! When your Kenmore dies, I'd highly recommend to look into Sebo at your local dealer. They're one of if not the best vacuum companies out there!

Courtesy to gmerkt on vacuumland.org


CLICK HERE TO GO TO panasonicvac's LINK


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Post# 1161982 , Reply# 58   10/19/2022 at 05:56 (414 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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Noted. I'll check out Sebo.

Does Sebo have any models without electronics? I like across the line motors. To many vacuums seem to be coming with inverters?


Post# 1161984 , Reply# 59   10/19/2022 at 06:07 (414 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
Sebo vacuums

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Are not only made well but everything on a Sebo is replaceable/repairable and so make quite a decent investment I have new thick carpet and out of all the vacs I have the best one is the Sebo X4 pet Automatic it rises on its own and makes vacuuming much easier, I also have Sebo Felix they are brilliant on thinner carpet and hard floors but unless you turned the suction to low and raised the brushbar it would stall and so made it hard to use. I also have C1 Pet from Sebo its a brilliant canister vac great for stairs and upholstery as well as hard floors it does have a Airbrush but that refuses to move on new carpet so its left upstairs to deal with kitty litter !!

Post# 1162005 , Reply# 60   10/19/2022 at 12:42 (414 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah)        

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Yes they do, they make the Mechanical 300 and 350 models. I'll put a link to them down below here. But on a side note, I wouldn't worry too much on the electronics. Sebo has proven to be one of if not the most reliable vacuum companies out there just like Speed Queen. Even if something ever did go wrong, they are super easy to fix. And Sebo unlike most vacuum companies out there, they actually make their vacuums even better than they ever have been before. Personally, I prefer a Sebo vacuum that uses electronics. Same goes for Speed Queen washers and dryers because they both would offer more features that the mechanical ones do not have. Example you can turn the brushroll off, the height would automatically adjust, the vacuum would shut off if the bag was full or if there was a clog, etc. Feel free to watch a demonstration video of this white X4 that you can still buy today, which is technically a Kenmore Professional 12 but newer and branded as Sebo.






CLICK HERE TO GO TO panasonicvac's LINK


Post# 1162032 , Reply# 61   10/19/2022 at 19:59 (414 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
Nice!

chetlaham's profile picture
Do you have a good link?


Auto rising vacuum sounds complicated. I take an onboard computer and sensors does all that?


Post# 1162049 , Reply# 62   10/20/2022 at 04:32 (414 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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Not to put anyone on the spot, but at 10:45 I have to say that I agree:







Post# 1162078 , Reply# 63   10/20/2022 at 10:18 (413 days old) by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        

Just like the machinery, not all electronics are created equal.

Do you think a company like Whirlpool, that obviously no longer cares about quality, is going to make washers out of tin and plastic that is designed to break, and then use the highest quality aircraft or automotive-grade electronics?

I would choose mechanical dials if I could, because I think of them as being tried and true, and I'm resistant to change. However, it's becoming more impractical, or impossible, to do so if buying a new machine. But even if Amana had mechanical dials, I would still chose a Speed Queen with electronics over it every time.


Post# 1162080 , Reply# 64   10/20/2022 at 10:42 (413 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
Very true unfortunately. Whirlpool knows their main parts (belt, shifter, splutch, tub seals, suspension) will only last X amount of cycles, so anything else like fill valves or electronics will be engineered around the same life expectancy.


In a perfect world appliances would be like the cars in Cuba. Still going strong after decades, going a step further in that they would be designed for refurbishment vs replacement at the 30 year mark.


Post# 1162100 , Reply# 65   10/20/2022 at 16:13 (413 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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I guess a similar question can be asked in regards to timers. Do you think a company that doesn't care about quality anymore, would use the highest quality timers?

Post# 1162194 , Reply# 66   10/21/2022 at 14:03 (412 days old) by panasonicvac (Northern Utah)        

panasonicvac's profile picture
Yes, there's a motor that levels the height adjuster while being controlled by a circuit board. It's like your Kenmore Intuition where there's a circuit board to control the motor of the brushroll. This video would give a proper explanation of why this is important to have on a vacuum.





Neither Mechanical models can do that feature, that's one of the reasons why I prefer the X models.

www.sebo.us/upright-vacuu...


Post# 1183642 , Reply# 67   6/28/2023 at 14:01 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
being stupid

Speed Queen is stupid for putting the spin speed at low on the heavy duty cycle after the wash cycle and before rinse. My apartment Speed Queen does it on the normal cycle with the machine set even at heavy soil.

Post# 1184045 , Reply# 68   7/3/2023 at 10:24 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
spray rinsing while full

On top of the low speed spin, I still don't get why it spray rinses while full of water. These are 2 of my pet pievs.

Post# 1184047 , Reply# 69   7/3/2023 at 10:37 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
firsthand experience

I have had firsthand experience with early spray rinsing and low speed spin on the normal cycle with heavy soil level or the equivalent heavy duty cycle. Tell me I'm wrong!

Post# 1184065 , Reply# 70   7/3/2023 at 17:14 by chetlaham (United States)        

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Your not wrong! Fast spin + 2-3 minutes of spin-drain before initiating spray is ideal IMO.

 

 

The exception I feel would permanent press, where the spray would start at the instant the pressure switch is reset and run until the spin stops and the tub fills up for the rinse just like with GE filter flos. GE had a nice thing going, and with Speed Queen's targeted fill flume would in essence perfect it. Simple, easy, beautiful.

 

Lots of good could be done without energy regs and common sense engineering. 

 

Also, let me be the one to apologize for your downy ball not opening. That makes me sad when I think about it cry    


Post# 1184092 , Reply# 71   7/3/2023 at 20:21 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
hard feelings

I have no hard feelings towards Speed Queen. I just wish they'd left the spin speed at high speed when using normal cycles. It will open the downy ball if you do smaller loads. I stay near the machines to open the ball, though it does tend to leak out into the tub as the water fills. I just open the lid and press the weight down.

Post# 1184129 , Reply# 72   7/4/2023 at 07:01 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

I'm glad to hear your not taking it as hard as I am. But hey, hard feelings can be as good as they are bad in that I find feelings drive constructive reform leading to a better future for all.

 

I'm glad to hear its working on smaller loads. I would not worry about softener leaking into the outer tub. In theory the pump running in reverse during agitation will kick any softener back up into the outer tub if it had migrated into the pump during fill. This is why it is essential to have the pump running in reverse when agitating. A drain pump with a one way impeller makes for poorer performance and shouldn't be used in a washing machine IMO. Whirlpool BDs were the worst in that the pump would drain water out of the machine for 1 second at the start of agitation. I can imagine some Woolite, liquids and fabric softeners having been pulled out of machines millions of times when users added liquids to the bottom of the wash basket. Having the pump directly attached to the main motor was done for many, many brilliant reasons and this is one of them. 

 

 

 

 


Post# 1184226 , Reply# 73   7/5/2023 at 15:15 by MobileMaid (Huntsville, AL)        

mobilemaid's profile picture
Perhaps Speed Queen programmed this spray rinse as a way to knock down any detergent foam and suds to enable the tub to come to a full-speed spin?

Post# 1184227 , Reply# 74   7/5/2023 at 15:16 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
Speed Queen during agitation

I believe the pump does run during agitation in both wash and rinse when on heavy soil on the normal cycle. I recently cleaned the downy balls so I pray that it will work this time.

Post# 1184228 , Reply# 75   7/5/2023 at 15:18 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
downy ball near agitator

I will try and put the downy ball near the agitator when doing big loads.

Post# 1184233 , Reply# 76   7/5/2023 at 16:18 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

@MobilMade: That is probably the idea, however, IMO to many variables are at play. I like the idea of letting the tub go into full spin then add water like all the other major manufacturers. Though you not wrong, this is probably Speed Queens exact line of thinking. 

 

@GELaundry4Ever: I hope you're Downy ball works out on low Speed!

 

 

 


Post# 1184291 , Reply# 77   7/6/2023 at 15:32 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
downy ball opening during intermediate spin

I'm gonna try it this weekend when I do my normal wash routine.

Post# 1184355 , Reply# 78   7/7/2023 at 16:26 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

Let us know how it goes! :)


Post# 1184370 , Reply# 79   7/7/2023 at 20:47 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
wash routine

I'll let you know. I make sure I wash everything on heavy soil on the normal cycle just to get a real rinse. The only thing that changes is the temp depending on color type.

Post# 1184406 , Reply# 80   7/8/2023 at 06:27 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

Are your machines OPL? Do they do a grey water rinse?


Post# 1184421 , Reply# 81   7/8/2023 at 11:04 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
speed queen machines

No, they're coin-operated. However, they can be paid through the csc go app. When you select heavy soil during the normal cycle, you get to do a deep rinse. By the way, the downy ball did open.

Post# 1184433 , Reply# 82   7/8/2023 at 13:34 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

Glad to hear you can get a deep rinse and the downy ball opening. Both get the job done.

 

Do you have pictures of those coin-op Speed Queens? Anything Speed Queen is a luxurious experience.


Post# 1184435 , Reply# 83   7/8/2023 at 13:56 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
Speed Queen pictures

Unfortunately, I do not have any pictures. However, I completely that Speed Queen is the only luxury brand that truly does get the job done and last.

Post# 1184448 , Reply# 84   7/8/2023 at 17:17 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

Its ok! As of right not, Speed Queen is the only real luxury brand. Sad that luxury used to come standard, even in BOL apartment grade washers and dryers. Now not even most $2000 machine offerings have it.


Post# 1184472 , Reply# 85   7/8/2023 at 23:04 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
so-called luxury laundry

These so-called luxury laundry brands like LG and Samsung are anything but luxury. What did I miss?

Post# 1184503 , Reply# 86   7/9/2023 at 08:16 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

Lots of error codes, early break downs, no serviceability, hard to find parts, detergent stains, wrinkling, lint, unclean clothes, streaks, pilling, tears, tangling, twisting, discoloration, gunk, very long cycle times, smells, creepy noises, annoying noises, features that will never be used, confusing controls, locking lids, loads that go off balance easily, materials which break just by looking at them, states of befuddlement where one is not sure if the machine is working correctly, incorrectly or transmitting telemetry data to China.  

 

Yes I'm aware detergent staining shouldn't happen with dispensers however I don't use built in detergent dispensers. A good machine doesn't need them. I just throw the Tide Pod underneath the water fall or add detergent to the bottom of the basket as the machine is filling. Then add clothes. None luxury brands don't let you do this because they want to play with the dry clothes for 10 minutes first then spend another 10 minutes judiciously creating pseudo moist wet naps. Lots of intermission breaks in-between too. Got to let the clothes age then marinate before moving to the "wash" portion of the show. 

 

 

Exception in my heart is the GE Filter Flo, just add detergent to the pan and you get a real no nonsense detergent dispenser.

 

 

   


Post# 1184508 , Reply# 87   7/9/2023 at 09:00 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
Don't even get me started...

On undissolved or undiluted fabric softener. With true luxury brands like Speed Queen, fabric softener gets mixed in with the water thoroughly. I noticed you get a subtle laundry detergent and fabric softener without itching or oilly feelings.

Post# 1184514 , Reply# 88   7/9/2023 at 10:28 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

Water and distribution is key. Granted some, actually a lot of people overdose HE machines but at the same time the machine isn't all that innocent either.  Speed Queen pays forward a conscious user. Even Whirlpool TLs fail to do that releasing the fabric softener halfway through the first spin and then a spray rinse in the final spin.


Post# 1184529 , Reply# 89   7/9/2023 at 14:49 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
deep rinse

I also use a deep rinse by selecting heavy soil. That is why fabric softener dilutes and mixed evenly. The agitator rinses the soap while the fabric softener knocks down suds.

Post# 1184532 , Reply# 90   7/9/2023 at 15:20 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

Deep rinse is the only good way to get softner to work in a top loader IMO.


Post# 1184545 , Reply# 91   7/9/2023 at 18:28 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
deep rinse

In addition to softener working, it also insures that all the detergent is rinsed out. That's real luxury that actually works as long as it's a Speed Queen. You'd think luxury laundry would take the abuse and still keep running.

Post# 1184550 , Reply# 92   7/9/2023 at 19:16 by chetlaham (United States)        
Waschmaschine Missbrauch

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Oh! Trust me when I say the most sincere indicator of luxury laundry equipment is the ability to take abuse and still keep going. Central dial Maytags come to mind. You could very severely overload the machine and the agitator would still keep going without anything tripping out. On my Speed Queen I've had serious inadvertent imbalances. The bottom of the tub will bang into the cabinet, but the machine will not reach full speed or walk across the room. 

 

DDs have an issue with motor couplers breaking to often in my taste, where as on Maytags the belts lasts 30 years under all types of conditions. And once its time to change them, its a breeze. 

 

 


Post# 1184608 , Reply# 93   7/10/2023 at 11:06 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Reply number 92

combo52's profile picture
Chet I have never met anything like you you live in an incredible little dreamworld itís obvious why you have to stay hidden because you would get bullied for the things you write.

Maytag dependable care was the only washer ever made that you could not overload because the agitator would not keep going the belt would burn up. We used to run warranty calls when the machines were three months old because somebody tried to stuff too much in it and the belt burned up, luckily, it was easy to fix, and people learn not to overload them, but there was no other top load agitator washer ever made were the agitator would just quit moving and it would damage the machine.

Direct drive washer seldom ever broke drive couplings usually get at least 10 years of very heavy use out of them. I just rebuilt one from 1991 last week and still had the original Drive coupling in it. It looked like new I didnít even replace it.

John

You can go on making up anything youíd like but it doesnít make it so.


Post# 1184611 , Reply# 94   7/10/2023 at 11:17 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
Speed Queen vs. competitors

I've clearly noticed the difference between Speed Queen and their competitors. First of all, the feel of the machines are clearly industrial grade. Second of all, they wash and rinse for real, when you consider how the competition just sprinkles the laundry and barely moves it around.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO GELaundry4ever's LINK


Post# 1184613 , Reply# 95   7/10/2023 at 12:12 by chetlaham (United States)        
Reply 93

chetlaham's profile picture

Thats the whole point, you let the cheapest part of the machine either slip, fuse, or crack under a profound overload. Severe overloads won't do that to a Maytag however.

 

A DD motor is the exact same concept- it will typically shatter (at least an aged one) if the agitator is prevented from moving.

 

IIRC Mythbuster/Discovery Channel even did an episode where one of the hosts put his feet in the washer and the coupler broke after they turned it on trying to test out a particular myth. 

 

 

 

 

 


Post# 1184614 , Reply# 96   7/10/2023 at 12:23 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

Speed Queen is the obvious choice in every way. I tend to notice those on YouTube and chat forums praising Speed Queen are often very lucid with a low propensity for BS.


Post# 1184621 , Reply# 97   7/10/2023 at 14:00 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
To Chetlaham...

I agree 100%. I use these Speed Queens all the time. I watched all three of the washers running before I left for my internship and as usual, no messing around.

Post# 1184624 , Reply# 98   7/10/2023 at 14:28 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

I've been using a Speed Queen washer and Maytag dryer for 10 years now. I know how both machines behave, as well as those I used and tried prior. It is indeed a night and day difference. They do not mess around. 100% 140*F hot water. There are no error codes. No pilling or tears. No residue. No suds out of the drain pipe. No extra time spent filling, coasting or balancing. No break downs. No service calls. Imbalances are rare. Just clean clothes that smell amazing in 90 minutes! The durability is something you can feel too.

 

The dryer is the best dryer ever made. And the washer is easily in the top 5 greatest ever produced in the world. Only thing I would ever trade the washer for is a new Maytag Helical Center Dial.

 

 


  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 3         View Full Size
Post# 1184625 , Reply# 99   7/10/2023 at 15:12 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
Speed Queen Washer and residue

I have NEVER, I REPEAT, NEVER had fabric softener residue or buildup on my laundry, even when the downy ball is full of it. I select heavy soil and the softener always gets mixed completely, insuring that suds also are killed. The corresponding dryers do a great job drying. They get quite hot on high but it makes use of the heated air with grace and mercy. No damage, but efficiently dry without any do overs.
Don't mess with the queens or else...


Post# 1184711 , Reply# 100   7/11/2023 at 22:44 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
Speed Queen Laundry

I wonder what Speed Queen Laundry will do next.

Post# 1184718 , Reply# 101   7/12/2023 at 00:58 by qsd-dan (West)        
I wonder what Speed Queen Laundry will do next.

qsd-dan's profile picture

Probably remove more options in the name of "green" or discontinue their top loading washers altogether.

 

In the meantime, hopefully they get out of the bloody dark ages and put a f$%&ing heater in their front load washers.


Post# 1184725 , Reply# 102   7/12/2023 at 08:18 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
top load washers

If they do still make top load washers, what will they come up with? I pray they're not forced into the STUPID HE green crap.

Post# 1185217 , Reply# 103   7/18/2023 at 20:59 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

My guess is Speed Queen will discontinue the TC and continue the TR concept but with much, much less water per cycle. The variable tub speed, load sensing, and angle fill flume already have them geared to roll out such a concept at any time.

 

And yes, put a heater in those front loads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please! 


Post# 1185380 , Reply# 104   7/21/2023 at 03:35 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
Speed Queen Perfect Wash

It's just a matter of time before they're forced to comply with the EPA and DOE. As a loyal fan of them, this is disheartening. Boy, what have we come to? Are we really that stupid to notice?

Post# 1185382 , Reply# 105   7/21/2023 at 03:56 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

Regulations are no mercy. As the saying goes the road to heck is paved with good intentions.

 

However I think they're the stupid ones, I just came across this which kind of confirms it.

 

Spray rinse starts at 15:10, but seems to hit the base of the agi more than the load, and not a lot of suds kill.

 

 





Post# 1185387 , Reply# 106   7/21/2023 at 06:48 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Reply number 105

combo52's profile picture
Speed Queen TC normal eco cycle operation.

At least half the customers that I talk to you that have this machine use the normal Eco cycle almost exclusively so the government regulations are having the intended effect. A lot of energy is being saved. Even this guy that made this video commented that his parents mostly use the cycle and heís even using the cycle so I think itís a great thing itís having the intended effect. Itís very useful for certain washing situationís.

This is an excellent example of government regulations working itís giving people the option to save water. Imagine if you had the same washer without this energy saving cycle available to you that would be an awful thing. If you didnít have the department of energy helping us save water and energy when we want to do so.

John.


Post# 1185396 , Reply# 107   7/21/2023 at 09:14 by qsd-dan (West)        

qsd-dan's profile picture

Eco-Schmeco

 

Give me a spray rinse and a deep rinse or give me death!


Post# 1185402 , Reply# 108   7/21/2023 at 10:29 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

Reply 106- My point wasn't so much about the concept of a spray rinse in of itself. I have even advocated for complete spray rinsing in other threads over a deep rinse when appropriate. IMO it has its place especially with smaller loads. The issue is that the spray rinses on Speed Queen washers start way to early. This is not exclusive to the normal eco cycle, but all cycles even Heavy Duty and Bulky. Most Speed Queens of any age, mine AWN412 included, start spraying with the tub 1/3 full of water. Does no good imo. Let the machine coast to full speed, that would be at least 3 or 4 minutes of spin, then open the fill valve.

 

For example, Whirlpool allocates 2 minutes of draining, then 4 minutes of spinning with 2 minutes guaranteed at high before initiating the resource saver spray rinse part of the cycle.   

 

 

 

Speed Queen does not do any of this, instead the do all the sprays on low speed, with the first one starting with the tub still full of water. This is a very poorly executed good intention which gives eco a worse name. 

 

GSD-DAN- People ought to have the right to choose deep or spray. Or better yet spray + deep like on the old Maytag DCs.


Post# 1185415 , Reply# 109   7/21/2023 at 14:36 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
eco scam

The normal eco cycle is more like a scam to me. There's no way in Hell I will EVER be using that cycle. The soap doesn't rinse out properly. I'm keeping it on deep rinse using the heavy duty cycle, or in my case, using the heavy soil option on the normal cycle on the commercial units at my apartment. I'm dead SERIOUS. Bleh! No thank you!

Post# 1185504 , Reply# 110   7/22/2023 at 08:57 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

Jerome, do your machine take more money when set to heavy duty? I remember in the 2000s when one apartment complex started charging more for a hot fill IIRC. 



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