Thread Number: 92115  /  Tag: Modern Dishwashers
The Future of Builder Grade Dishwashers is Here
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Post# 1166689   12/15/2022 at 21:32 (483 days old) by seedub (South Texas Hill Country)        

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I got home to find that the maintenance crew had replaced the ancient 30+ GE-built Kenmore BOL with what you see here.

Everything about the fit and finish feels cheap from the very thin metal front panel to the lightweight plastic racks that frequently go off track and require recentering. For a unit that runs from USD 360.00 to USD 450.00, this is to be expected.

The rack layout is a joke and seems to suppose that this will be a DISHwasher only with no pots and pans done in it. The user guide gives two possible loading schemes and both pertain only to table settings (plates, cups, saucers, dessert plates and drinking glasses). As you can see, I loaded in two regular size saucepans and the bowl, and it would take no more. I needed to get creative with those. Plastic bowls on the top rack just seemed a taste out of place, not quite fitting.

The machine is rated at 60 dBA noise level, and that sounds correct to me. Not that I would complain after hearing that loud shaded-pole GE whine and rattle.

Jerome/Gelaundry4ever will be intrigued to know that spray action alternates between spray arms; at no time do both upper and lower arms work together at the same time. Just scanning the control panel, I could find no way to select either a heated or no-heat dry. This unit is equipped with whatís known as ďDry BoostĒ. Itís quite effective, too. Now, I did what I usually do with all my machines - opened the door after the final rinse and shook the excess water off some items, but everything including the tub and the inside of the door were dried to satisfaction for a modern ultra-efficient machine. The one-hour cycle was generous with its prerinses: I did not actively count, just took notice of water changes, but it felt like there were three before the detergent cup popped open.

Using the Cascade Platinum pac that was provided by the manufacturer, the final results were very good. This load was after cooking fried chicken. The glass bowl had egg and flour on it; one of the saucepans held the oil and dredges from cooking the chicken. I found no trace of grease and no egg or flour left. Then there was the wine glass you see Ė fine grain yibbles. There is also that white dreck you can see in the bottom of the tub. What that is I canít even think.

I posted this and chose the title since as ubiquitous as BOL GE appliances are in the American housing market, we will be seeing a lot of these in the future. I have six more months on my lease, so I have a good chance to see how she holds up to the type of frequent use I put my washers through.

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Post# 1166693 , Reply# 1   12/15/2022 at 22:29 (483 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        

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It looks bare bones, that's for sure...

but any dishwasher is better than NO dishwasher..

I hope to never be without one as I have been briefly and hated it...

It sounds so crazy, but they really do make a world of difference having one vs not having one...the space dirty dishes take up...the running water, draining, rinsing, becomes this whole thing....some people actually like washing dishes by hand..

Me? I can only do it for about a week before I start hating it.

as for this being BOL... I wonder nowadays what that actually means in terms of features or build quality or BOTH? I would used to say both back in the day...but today... I sometimes feel like when you pay more you get more features, but same build quality... same motor, etc... Maybe a better rack design or more insulation, etc...Of course I don't dissect these so I have no idea really..just a guess.

Post# 1166695 , Reply# 2   12/15/2022 at 22:59 (483 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
New US builder grade dishwashers

combo52's profile picture
Hi Chris, thanks for the review I just installed one of these a few weeks ago. It certainly isnít very impressive

Since GE redesigned their dishwasher line a half dozen years ago or so they have been holding up miserably. This includes the very expensive stainless steel models, etc.

One of the problems with these newer GE dishwashers including the newer Frigidaire units is a use a very poor durability mean pump that wears out they have brushes in them.

of course whirlpool has had their share of Maine motor failures as well from KitchenAid models on down if you use the machine a lot.

If I were going to get a baseline dishwasher today Iíll probably buy the basic whirlpool Amana where it does not alternate wash, arms, etc. it seems to be a little bit simpler it does a decent job. I also like the racking better in the Whirlpool's than the GEís.

Chris , keep us posted how youíd like this over the next few months itís always nice to get feedback from people that use these machines.

reply, number one, Mark I totally agree with your comments about the value of a dishwasher, I frequently time, my self loading and unloading a dishwasher. It only takes a couple minutes you cannot begin to wash dishes by hand in that kind of time to say nothing the fact the dishes are far cleaner than hand washing. I have friends who hand wash, and the dishes are never as clean, especially little nooks and crannies and edges of pots and pans and handles. Thereís always grease in them thereís just simply no way that you can get things as clean as a dishwasher.

Post# 1166718 , Reply# 3   12/16/2022 at 02:05 (483 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)        

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Thanks for the review of your new dw.  It seems like it works reasonably which is more than one could say of bol in the 80s/90s.

I remember when the flush front dws were a premium thing.


I hope it continues to work well for you.


The only thing I don't really care for on these new models these days is the gray tub.  It looks so dingy and dirty.

Post# 1166728 , Reply# 4   12/16/2022 at 06:14 (483 days old) by eriksp (Norway)        

I just really don't understand why you guys across the pond pay so much for such low grade appliances. A 450 dollar machine here would certainly have a stainless steel interior, no exposed heating coil (I've never seen one here at any price point), and that's with 25% VAT added. But glad to hear it does what it's supposed to do well, which is washing dishes.

Post# 1166733 , Reply# 5   12/16/2022 at 08:47 (483 days old) by RE563 (Fort Worth, Texas)        
My complex did the same thing

re563's profile picture
They replaced my countertops, sink and all the other appliances. My machine was in Stainless Steel. I used the dishwasher once, it leaked. I will say that I didn't have a problem with loading and did what I always do, scrape, not rinse. It cleaned very well, but yes flimsy as all get out. They then replaced it with a Frigidaire FFCD2413. A little better build quality. I have to say this Frigidaire is doing a awesome job., Just Scrapiung and not rinsing, it has cleaned everything perfectly. I do use Cascade Complete action pacs, and lemi-shine rinse and and not disappointed yet.

Post# 1166736 , Reply# 6   12/16/2022 at 09:38 (483 days old) by jakeseacrest (Massachusetts)        

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My complex just replaced my 2014 Amana with another Amana. I can't complain about the washing as everything is spotless. It sounds pretty powerful in there! I just hate the racks with a passion. They are a touch smaller than the older model. The lower rack no longer has the bump out in the front so I'm running it more often due to the lost space. I told my property manager that I would split the cost of a better unit with them but he said no because he was afraid that the other tenants would want to do the same. I just shook my head over that one.

Post# 1166747 , Reply# 7   12/16/2022 at 12:59 (483 days old) by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio)        
No dishwasher

IDK, the Samsung that we had at our rental was just as bad as not having a dishwasher. It really required 2x the work.

Post# 1166750 , Reply# 8   12/16/2022 at 13:43 (483 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)        

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yeah, it takes me maybe 5 minutes to wash my dishes by hand each night and
I rarely use more than a gallon of hot water.
Plus I prepare almost all my food so it's not just a plate and fork.
But I always rinse dishes when done and
soak those that will benefit from that so
by the time I wash
all the heavy gunk just gets dumped down the drain. All I use,
after putting on rubber gloves,
is a soapy sponge, sometimes baking soda and/or a few drops of bleach.

I like the idea of a dishwasher but..
it's hassle, time, energy, humidity, noise...

Post# 1166773 , Reply# 9   12/16/2022 at 16:10 (483 days old) by hvtech42 (New England)        

Exposed heating coils are not necessarily considered "low grade" in the US. They enable heated drying, which is a desirable feature in the US that has not traditionally been an option on European dishwashers. One of the common complaints about Bosch et. al in the US has been poor drying of plastics. That said, these days the energy regulations have kind of nerfed the effectiveness of heated dry compared to the old days. And it looks like Bosch has an effective, more energy efficient answer to that problem with Zeolite.

Plastic tubs... I don't know what to say really. For some reason they've long been the norm in the US for entry level models, but not in Europe. While not seen as "desirable" as stainless steel tubs, they haven't really had any durability problems and they don't hurt the cleaning performance at all.

Post# 1166777 , Reply# 10   12/16/2022 at 16:42 (483 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)        

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The UK, and perhaps other European countries?(?), is behind the US in adopting the automatic dishwasher by about 30 years.

The US adopted dishwashers in the 60s/70s when the UK was still getting over rationing.

It's only in the last 15 or so years that the UK has really taken the plunge on dishwashers.

When we in the U.S. were in that phase of product launch, we had all kinds of enticements to make them seem attractive, AS WELL. They came in colors, and some were portable, and others had a plethora of useless cycles to make it seem more appealing. One could buy a dishwasher here for under $200 up until about the year 2000. Back in the 70s you could find some models for around $100.

Not anymore. $300-$400 is the least for a new one.

When do we think the UK will adopt home air conditioners?

Post# 1166778 , Reply# 11   12/16/2022 at 16:44 (483 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        

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Stainless steel tubs are pretty useless in the US. Modern dishwashers will never last long enough to justify them and some of the cheaper metals used rust sooner than it should. The only positive aspect is that it's recyclable, unlike plastic tubs.

Post# 1166779 , Reply# 12   12/16/2022 at 17:08 (483 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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"They enable heated drying, which is a desirable feature in the US that has not traditionally been an option on European dishwashers."

Older European dishwashers had exposed heating elements that also were used for heated drying. My first AEG dishwasher had it, just like Miele and AEG dishwashers. I guess European manufacturers had to come up with more energy efficient appliances and thus the exposed heating elements went out. Bosch was one of the first one IIRC that came out with a dishwasher with the hidden element.

Post# 1166781 , Reply# 13   12/16/2022 at 17:21 (483 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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Best buy and Best tested dishwasher overhere is a Bosch SMV4HAX0N (November 4th 2022). Price: Ä599.- which converts to $634.-

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Post# 1166787 , Reply# 14   12/16/2022 at 18:16 (483 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        

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"When do we think the UK will adopt home air conditioners?"

To do what? Heat?

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Post# 1166797 , Reply# 15   12/16/2022 at 22:13 (482 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        

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My 2014 Maytag has a stainless interior. First stainless interior I've ever had. I will say that I don't notice a difference in drying because I never use heated dry.. I shake the racks when done and I have this small fan I keep in the kitchen and Just hang it on the rack for about an hour and everything is 99% dry... I've always ignored any reviews on bad drying because I never cared about how well it can dry.

I also don't notice a difference in cleaning in terms of the past models I've had that were plastic. But the interior feels so much stronger than plastic.

The reason I don't use heated dry? I feel like it's a total waste of time because here's what happens: The racks didn't get to be shaken to get any water off from bottoms of mugs or lips of plastic...the dry cycle never is able to dry small pools of water.. so when dry cycle is over...everything is dry on the bottom, and when you pull the top rack out, any pooled water comes down on the dried dishes... opening the door immediately when done... shaking the racks and a fan work best for me. Oh.. and I take my fan apart and clean it.. It's not some nasty fan with gross dust covered fan blades..

If I had this dishwasher I would do the exact same thing.. I know some dishwashers have fans...I've never been lucky enough to have one with a fan. The circulating air dries them so fast

Post# 1166798 , Reply# 16   12/16/2022 at 22:22 (482 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
dishwasher brand

Is this GE or hotpoint?

Post# 1166829 , Reply# 17   12/17/2022 at 09:08 (482 days old) by seedub (South Texas Hill Country)        
Ope! The model number

seedub's profile picture
My bad, Jerome. It is a GE GDF450PGR3WW. The label says that it was assembled in USA.

Post# 1166830 , Reply# 18   12/17/2022 at 09:33 (482 days old) by seedub (South Texas Hill Country)        
Reply #6

seedub's profile picture
Two months before my replacement (which was one month after I started complaining about the old GE with its detergent drawer stuck closed, rinse aid dispenser stuck open and abusively used lower rack), I saw an Amana box in the dumpster and got all excited. I was very pleased with Amana's Whirlpool sibling I have had for 7 years at the house I still own. Dunno about Amana, but that base level WP has a tall tub and a soil sensor - something expected only in models that cost more. And Whirlpool's triple filtering system is hard to beat. So, I was a touch disappointed to see the GE and not an Amana. I completely agree with John in Reply #2: if my property manager had asked me my preference I would have opted for the Amana.

Post# 1166889 , Reply# 19   12/17/2022 at 18:49 (482 days old) by countryguy (Astorville, ON, Canada)        

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I have a Miele dishwasher and always use the heated dry. When the cycle is finished, I just open the door slightly and let the interior cool down. It is an easy solution to not having water drip onto the clean dishes in the lower rack...just remove the dishes from the lower rack first rather from the upper rack.


Post# 1166892 , Reply# 20   12/17/2022 at 19:35 (481 days old) by seedub (South Texas Hill Country)        

seedub's profile picture
Yessir - after the washer shuts off, I open the door and pull both racks out.

Post# 1166904 , Reply# 21   12/17/2022 at 23:11 (481 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        

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this may or may not be true... and I can't remember where I read it It was about ovens and dishwashers and their longevity or something along those lines. In the article, it said to extend the life of them, don't use the dry cycle or self cleaning cycle...something about the heat and control boards... I can see that with the super high temp of a self cleaning oven, but not a dishwasher.. but I distinctly remember reading that in the article or maybe it was a post...

I have used the dry cycle in my dishwasher and I feel like the ultimate result isn't as good as opening, shaking racks and using a fan while I go do something else for an hour or so.. the dishes are bone dry.

It is crazy what a difference rinse aid makes though. Mine ran out and I forgot to fill it and I could totally tell... It took the fan longer to dry them.

Post# 1166910 , Reply# 22   12/18/2022 at 04:55 (481 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

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I've always had the energy saver button pushed in on both of my DW's and if I'm paying attention just open the door, jiggle the racks, and let the steam out. Then I'll either close it and let the fan finish the cycle or I'll prop the door open with a pot holder to keep the heat in but let the steam come on out. My mother has been doing this since 1974 with her first KDS17A and I just took after her. Most of the time the plastic items will continue drying due to residual heat. If I let the fan finish there will still be water on plastic. Doesn't bother me really either way.

Post# 1166981 , Reply# 23   12/18/2022 at 18:04 (481 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
heat dry and rinse aid

I prefer to use heat dry and rinse aid to speed up the drying process.

Post# 1166982 , Reply# 24   12/18/2022 at 18:07 (481 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
to seedub...

Thank you. I could've sworn the Hotpoint dishwashers are identical to the GE's.

Post# 1167033 , Reply# 25   12/19/2022 at 09:38 (480 days old) by pulltostart (Mobile, AL)        

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In about 2017 I bought a new GE dishwasher, it was a MOL I suppose.  It did have 2 wash arms, and it took me a while to realize that they did not run at the same time.  The noise in the tub changed when the active arm changed from one to the other.  I didn't necessarily object, just figured that whatever was controlling this action would be just another point of potential failure/problems over time.  It didn't matter as the controls went out after 3 years (it had a touchpad control panel).  I put it on the curb and it didn't stay out there 30 minutes until it was gone.  It was replaced by the absolute BOL GE model with an analog timer and one switch (heated dry on/off).  It was by no means quiet, and lived an easy life as I rarely cook and so it was routinely loaded with cereal bowls, glasses, and coffee mugs.  I loved it, and it appears that GE no longer offers that model.


Currently I am using the GE Potscrubber that I gave my parents in 1994 and it works fine.  When the time comes to replace it, my plans are to go with the Whirlpool version of the Amana mentioned above.  They're basically identical, but the Whirlpool does offer the option of a cool (unheated) dry, which is my preference.



Post# 1168528 , Reply# 26   1/7/2023 at 06:26 (461 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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I've have very good results with my Bosch SHU43C06UC dishwasher, which from the serial number appears to have been made in 2004 (sounds about right). It really has never failed me. I have however got tired of cleaning the bottom filter screen, so what I normally do is to rinse off as much debris on the items I place in it to minimize that stuff. The Bosch 43C does seem to take about 2 hours to run a load, though, at least on the "Power Scrub Plus" setting, which is what I normally use. I figure if the thing is going to wash my dishes it needs to do the best job possible ;-). One of these days I may run it on the "regular" cycle just to compare times and results.


I only run it about twice a week, so it's not a huge utility hit. I think!


Before the Bosch I had some POS American brand, the name of which now escapes me. Awful piece of junk. Plastic interior and all that. The Bosch has a stainless interior, and I think that's a big plus.



Post# 1168541 , Reply# 27   1/7/2023 at 09:49 (461 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Rich, that POS dishwasher was a Frigidaire.

Post# 1168767 , Reply# 28   1/8/2023 at 18:54 (460 days old) by Joe_in_philly (Philadelphia, PA, USA)        
Bosch SHU43C06UC

joe_in_philly's profile picture
I have had the same model, which I got in 2005. It had the control panel replaced due to a recall. The interior of the dishwasher looks great, and it still cleans as well as it did when I got it. I scrap but donít rinse, and check the filter every couple of months, but usually not much of anything in there.

Post# 1176404 , Reply# 29   3/29/2023 at 07:56 (380 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
GE dishwasher

Thank you for the model#. How is it thus far?

Post# 1176519 , Reply# 30   3/30/2023 at 00:59 (379 days old) by seedub (South Texas Hill Country)        

seedub's profile picture
I did not expect the GE to perform as well as it had. I am surprised and pleased by how well it does. I almost never pre rinse and I scrape only when there are large-size bits of debris. Except for two instances where an item needed to be rewashed, everything has come out to my satisfaction regardless of whether I use pods or powder and regardless of how heavily soiled an item is. The GE completely and consistently cleans glass casseroles with baked-on food. It passes the dried egg test and the dried meat sauce (BBQ sauce) test. This may be my faulty perception, but pods seem to have the edge over powder in this machine which is disappointing since I prefer powder. The white stuff at the bottom of the tub gradually faded out and I finished it off with a dampened sponge. With all cycles including the no-heat 1 Hour Wash cycle, all items are dry, but that plastic interior we've been discussing is still wet and stays wet for over a day. If I have the time or I'm sufficiently annoyed by it, I will wipe down the interior.

At this time, I have had none of the trouble with the door latch that just about all negative reviews have experienced. But it's early days so we will see what we will see. Here's hoping that the latch holds up until I quit the place this August.

The flimsy cutlery basket flexes excessively causing flatware items to occasionally bunch together if I carelessly load them.

Final score: I'd give the GE four out of five stars.

Post# 1176604 , Reply# 31   3/30/2023 at 19:52 (379 days old) by mobiledynamics (gotham city)        

This is a older thread and while it seems to be -bumped- as it's a recent thread, I'll chime in on even -uber deeziner- Dishwashers.

While I appreciate the LED lights, and auto open door, etc on the new *uber high end* dishwashers, even the Miele Platinum level dishwasher, I would say about 5-6 years ago, even the Stainless was cheaper that of yesteryears. It was noticeable enough. Thinner for sure as if you put a pot handle slightly protruding, and closed the door - you might have put a dent to it. Sign of times I suppose

Post# 1176682 , Reply# 32   3/31/2023 at 18:57 (378 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
Independence Manor in Nacogdoches

I should be moving into an apartment soon at Independence Manor here in Nacogdoches soon. I plan on using the dishwasher there for everyday dishes. I hate washing dishes by hand, so I'm not gonna complain.

Post# 1181889 , Reply# 33   6/5/2023 at 22:37 (311 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
GE dishwasher

My dad has these GE's at the house in Houston.

Post# 1181908 , Reply# 34   6/6/2023 at 10:58 (311 days old) by rinso (Meridian Idaho)        

The best drying dishwasher I've ever had was my Maytag non-reverse rack 1997 model. Since then, I had a new GE that came with our new house, and a KitchenAid TOL. The GE caught fire as the control board would often turn on the heating element, but not fill with any water. The KitchenAid washes well, but its drying performance is dismal. I swear the circulation fan has COPD.

Post# 1181973 , Reply# 35   6/6/2023 at 22:33 (310 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
wash system sounds

I noticed that the bottom spray arms runs at 100 rpm instead of the 60 rpm heard on most dishwashers. You also hear an electrical hum sound instead of the high pitched sound from the pump which you barely notice. It does alternate between upper and lower racks.

Post# 1182241 , Reply# 36   6/10/2023 at 19:29 (307 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
built tough

It is amazing that GE/Hotpoint claims that their appliances, including their dishwashers are built tough. HOW????

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