Thread Number: 92186  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Miele W1 disappointment
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Post# 1167556   12/26/2022 at 14:07 (484 days old) by JohnBee (USA, NY)        

johnbee's profile picture
Hello everyone

Recently I broke up with my husband and we wanted to keep our W3035 down in Georgia cause it would be hard for him to find a Miele down there. Since I was moving back to NYC buying a Miele would be piece of cake.
I found a attached W1 excellence WXD160 for a really good price.

Today was the first day I decided to use it and I’m really disappointed. The W3035 was fully customizable. Just press the “custom” button and you you’re free to select whatever temperature spin speed or options.
Here everything seems to be hard coded.
First of all. There’s NO Quick Rinse cycle. There’s no way I can to rinse and spin!
No “water Plus” option for higher water level and extra rinse !
No prewash !
No option to select Sanitize temperature on Normal. In w3035 I could use “custom” and then sanitize and it would take only 1:25 for the full cycle to hul sanitize cycle takes 2:35

I don’t understand why Miele took that path but I feel like it’s terrible :/

John


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Post# 1167613 , Reply# 1   12/26/2022 at 23:44 (484 days old) by moon1234 (Wisconsin)        

You bought the bottom model. All of these things are known on the Miele website if you look before your buy. The low end Miele models removed a lot of cycles and customization. It is how they push people towards the more expensive models.

If you can, return this model and buy one of the top two models. They you will have the options you are looking for.


Post# 1167626 , Reply# 2   12/27/2022 at 04:15 (484 days old) by littlegreeny (Milwaukee, WI)        

littlegreeny's profile picture
Bummer! Is it possible to customize the way you want in the app if you use mobile start?

Post# 1167630 , Reply# 3   12/27/2022 at 07:26 (484 days old) by JohnBee (USA, NY)        

johnbee's profile picture
I just checked the website and you're right. You need to go a step up to get "Quick Rinse". OMG they're horrible.
Unfortunately, I got the floor model as everything is being back-ordered but the 860 Model is $2000!
I really miss my W3035. Back then Miele didn't treat their customers in that way.
I find it disrespectful for 20+ years of clients that you need to buy their high-end version to get a Rinse Only cycle.

The App on the other way is totally useless. You can't download cycles or whatever like LG does.
I feel like this is the last Miele Appliance I'll buy...


Post# 1167639 , Reply# 4   12/27/2022 at 11:00 (484 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
John, congratulations on the new washer, but what a bummer!! Bob

Post# 1167729 , Reply# 5   12/28/2022 at 08:43 (483 days old) by Chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
The app

chachp's profile picture

Are none of those additional options available via the app?


Post# 1167762 , Reply# 6   12/28/2022 at 19:55 (482 days old) by JohnBee (USA, NY)        
The app

johnbee's profile picture
Nop. The app is totally useless

Post# 1167779 , Reply# 7   12/29/2022 at 00:17 (482 days old) by bewitched (Italy)        

We in Italy have exactly this model and it does all the functions you mention included the rinse and spin only. Perhaps is something related to the use in your country which makes them program the machine differently.

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Post# 1167784 , Reply# 8   12/29/2022 at 02:57 (482 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        
Bewitched

logixx's profile picture
Sadly Miele USA is different from Miele basically anywhere else in the world. This even extends to the formulation of their detergents, which have less enzymes in the US that you'd find otherwise.

Post# 1167814 , Reply# 9   12/29/2022 at 14:03 (481 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Could be wrong, but am more than unusually sure Miele does not have separate mother boards just for washers sold in USA. That is as with other manufacturers things are same across a product line only that certain features are enabled or disabled via programming.

Post# 1167846 , Reply# 10   12/29/2022 at 23:10 (481 days old) by JohnBee (USA, NY)        
Country selection

johnbee's profile picture
I know for sure on my w3035 on the service menu you could choose country. Never tried it thought. But still the 3035 was almost the same with the EU model.
But now this. Man… we’re talking about a different beast.

For now the best workaround I found is to run the express wash on COLD. This is like adding 3 rinses which is enough for my towels. The only bad thing is that the express here doesn’t accept “max spin” like the 3035


Post# 1168174 , Reply# 11   1/3/2023 at 05:13 (477 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

My ModernLife machine was a Frankenstein BOL machine with some TOL features for a MOL price and had a few similar disappointments.

For quick rinse, I recommend the Express cycle set to to cold.
At least over here, that did 2 fills (main wash and a single rinse) in 20min with a 1200rpm spin.
I had the water plus option luckily - every machine in Germany has that, but again, the US is the US.

The long cycle times are at least partly to blame on ot being a 120V machine.
The W3035 should have been a 240V machine, right? If so, the heater is about half the power on the new one.
At least the full manual states that you can set the light soil option for Sanitize. Not sure if that drops a rinse, but it should cut the main wash down to about 2/3 if it is anything like here.

The manual does not state so, but, it says you need to have bleaching set if you want to use the pre wash compartment as a bleach compartment.
There could be a chance setting heavy soil might just add a prewash pand not say.
Indicator for that could be if you can select both heavy and light soil at once.

You can't set an extra rinse, but according to the manual you can set the "maximum rinse level" in the settings.
That will at least give you a 1/3rd up the door rinse every time.


Post# 1168176 , Reply# 12   1/3/2023 at 05:58 (477 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
"The W3035 should have been a 240V machine, right? "

launderess's profile picture
Alas no, last 208v-240v washers from Miele sold in USA for domestic use were the 12xx and 11xx IIRC. Starting with 30XX models everything afterwards has been 110v/120v (before anyone starts yes I know, but Miele uses 110v in marketing and other literature...).

For ages Miele swore they'd never have a 120v washer in USA. That didn't go over very well as the 120v/240v power requirement cost Miele plenty of sales. Despite what many go on about here in group not every home had 240v power nor was able or interested in having it installed just to have a Miele washer.

Only 240v washers sold in USA by Miele nowadays is the professional Little Giant series.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Launderess's LINK


Post# 1168178 , Reply# 13   1/3/2023 at 06:17 (477 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Then I am mistaken

But I am very surprised the machine said it could do Sanitize in 1:25 then!

Post# 1168302 , Reply# 14   1/4/2023 at 13:29 (475 days old) by JohnBee (USA, NY)        

johnbee's profile picture
Yes W3035 on Custom Setting was able to Run the Sanitize cycle in 1:25

Just for an update guys. The Miele got some more issues.

I was running a load of towels when the machine alarm went off. Looks like there was a leak.
The guy from the store (I remind you this was bought as floor model) came and found out that the Drain housing in the back of the machine was defective and leaking.
He offered to replace the part but it would take almost 3weeks to get a part.

At this point I lost my trust to Miele Brand.
Way too many issues. The Cycles, The leak and the most insane part for a Miele.. The vibration. This machine was vibrating like hell shaking the whole floor. (I know Miele is stating that concrete floor is required but good luck getting concrete floor in NYC apartment.

SO The decision was made. I said goodbye to the Miele and I got a Standard 4.5 cu. ft. LG with all the bells and whistles. With Internal heater, Steam, Powerwash etc.

I was always a Miele fan but I think I'm done for now.

I was even thinking going for a Miele dishwasher but looks like Kitchenaid is a better option now.


Post# 1168331 , Reply# 15   1/4/2023 at 18:43 (475 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Am sorry to hear about your ongoing issues, but glad you've worked things out in end.

For record will state follow...

Miele parts situation is what it is and has been from start. Things come from Germany to New Jersey, then are dispatched from that central source. Repair persons and dealers have to purchase inventory (or did IIRC anyway), or order parts they don't have in stock from Miele directly.

This being said you can today find parts on fleaPay and other sources in USA. These are likely parts purchased by authorized dealers or repair persons and Miele USA won't take back, so they sell them on to get their money.

Drain hose issue...

Things happen with any "new" washer. Since this was a floor demo unit who knows what sort of things happened before you purchased. If purchased new unit would have been under warranty and Miele would have replaced defective hose.

Vibration...

Miele washers long have been installed in NYC apartments. Yes, like nearly every other front loader they are happiest on solid stable floor. Miele used to advise installing washers in corner area where flooring is usually most stable.


Post# 1168345 , Reply# 16   1/4/2023 at 22:48 (475 days old) by Moon1234 (Wisconsin)        

Here is the thing with Miele today. They are offering “cheaper” modes to compete on price. To do that they are stripping cycles and features. It would be unfair to compare these budget models with previous lines. Until the W1 was released Miele didn’t have bottom models. The proper comparison would be the 860 to the previous models.

Yes, 240V is now limited to the professional line only. It’s not necessarily bad. We like our 120v models. The wash water has been turned to the point that the amount of water needing heat is low enough that it heats fairly quickly. It was a good move for Miele. More units are now sold because of the 120V option. The same for the heat pump dryers.

I’m sorry you bought the bottom model and it’s missing expected cycles. They are like cars with trim levels. You can’t buy the bottom trim level and expect top trim features. It’s a life lesson. Hopefully you will be happy with the LG. If you don’t have any issue, you probably will be happy. Just try to avoid purchasing something else due to anger. Buy it because it makes sense for you and your situation. Buyers remorse, especially for long term purchases, is worse than paying more upfront and then being happy. I’ve learned that in life. I no longer settle for a lesser mode unless I am 100% certain I always be wishing I bought the “other” model.


Post# 1168347 , Reply# 17   1/4/2023 at 22:53 (475 days old) by littlegreeny (Milwaukee, WI)        
Wow that sucks!

littlegreeny's profile picture
But I'd think twice about a Kitchenaid dishwasher. WP uses crappy Chinese pumps in their dishwashers that don't last. Get a Miele or Bosch instead.

Post# 1168350 , Reply# 18   1/5/2023 at 03:21 (475 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
KA TOL main pump motors

combo52's profile picture
Are twice the he size and power of any motor used on on a Bosch or Miele DW and we have never seen a bad one.

Yes less expensive models use cheaper smaller motors but current top WP built models are far better DWs than than Any other DW currently available in the US.

WP builds 15,000 plus DWs a day in a union LGBT friendly factory in Ohio that gets 1/2 its power directly from on site wind turbines.

When I spend hard earned money I like to see it help people and the planet.

John


Post# 1168377 , Reply# 19   1/5/2023 at 14:19 (474 days old) by littlegreeny (Milwaukee, WI)        
Thanks John

littlegreeny's profile picture
You bring up good points. Can you tell us what models have the better pumps?

Post# 1168382 , Reply# 20   1/5/2023 at 16:03 (474 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Better whirlpool, Built Dishwashers

combo52's profile picture
The models that do not have the removal bowl cylindrical filter, have the heavy duty motor with the self cleaning filter mesh system.

These are more common induction motors. They are not variable speed, and all that nonsense.

Whirlpool has certainly made a lot of dishwashers in the past decade or so that had problems they’ve experimented with all kinds of different motors and wash arm designs etc., some of which were not very successful. They also had a lot of leaks from the diverter shaft seals. They’ve change those designs. It looks like for the better.

John


Post# 1168421 , Reply# 21   1/5/2023 at 20:56 (474 days old) by appnut (TX)        
do not have the removal bowl cylindrical filter

appnut's profile picture
Well, based upon that description, that is the higher end KitchenAids with the pretty much self leaning filter and all Maytags. Last time I looked, all Whirlpool branded machines have a filter requiring to be checked and/or cleaned.

Post# 1168433 , Reply# 22   1/5/2023 at 23:01 (474 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)        
Reply 17

iiijohnnymaciii's profile picture
I have to say, I think KitchenAid is putting themselves back on the map with their new dishwashers. I believe KitchenAid is using a different iteration of passive filter pump as well. Here’s a photo of my current Kitchenaid KDFE204. It looks much beefier than my old KA passive filter pump dishwasher. I’m a daily full loader, so I’ll let you know if I have issues with it, but this one looks much better engineered than my old one: bottom and middle stainless steel spray arms, the bottom basket rollers are built much better and are reminiscent to the Power Clean ones (albeit not quite as good), their seems to be tighter tolerances on the middle rack and third rack gliders, and the programming (particularly the ProWash cycle is absolutely superb. I’ve been using this machine for a full year (using only powder) and never had any red sauce stains.


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Post# 1168443 , Reply# 23   1/6/2023 at 01:25 (474 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
"You can’t buy the bottom trim level and expect top trim features."

Except as you yourself say prior to W1 Miele only offered one version of washers sold in USA. They all were TOL so to speak, so how was OP or anyone else not up on things to assume or even know what Miele is up to nowadays..


Post# 1168445 , Reply# 24   1/6/2023 at 01:31 (474 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
"But I am very surprised the machine said it could do Sanitize in 1:25 then!"

The MIELE W1

"All Miele W1 machines use mechanical action combined with temperature, detergency, and time to offer SUPERIOR cleaning results. To kill bacteria in a wash cycle, the “sanitize program” uses a temperature of 140ºF for over 40 minutes and a maximum wash temperature of 170ºF. This is a much higher temperature range than most other domestic washing machines."

uakc.net/blog/sanitizing-your-ho...

Now here's the payoff; as one has repeatedly stated "sanitize" is rather a nebulous term. From a healthcare science standpoint it basically means reduction of pathogens to levels not likely to cause illness. That's all...

Furthermore as linked Miele PR above notes there is not a standard anyone can point to for laundry sanitation far as residential laundry is concerned.

"While there are currently no industry defined standards for washing machine “sanitize” cycles in residential machines, Miele has strived to offer the best possible sanitizing options. While you must still use the appropriate settings for your clothing or laundry items, you can have confidence that the W1 will reduce at least 99.9 percent of microorganisms in your wash. So, whether you have concerns about the current pandemic or simply want to avoid the whole family becoming ill from the coughs and sniffles that circulate around your children’s school, the W1 is a serious tool in the fight to prevent the spreading of viruses and bacteria."



Post# 1168509 , Reply# 25   1/6/2023 at 21:59 (473 days old) by Joe_in_philly (Philadelphia, PA, USA)        
NSF Protocol P172

joe_in_philly's profile picture
I think Miele may be wrong about that. I believe the NSF protocol P172 would be considered a residential sanitary cycle standard.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Joe_in_philly's LINK


Post# 1168758 , Reply# 26   1/8/2023 at 18:38 (471 days old) by JohnBee (USA, NY)        

johnbee's profile picture
So let me clarify my thoughts here.

First of all, I have a good experience with Miele since the whole family owns a Miele washer back in Europe (Grandmother, Mother, Sister, Me (one W3241 in Greece and my previous W3035) and Several Miele Dishwashers.

Miele forever offered low end or “Basic” models of their Series. For Example, my Washer in Greece was missing some fancy features like Drum Light or High Spin speed (most of the models back then used to go up to 1600 or even 1800 rpm).
My Grandmother’s Dishwasher for Example was lacking the 3rd Silverware rack.
But what’s the difference here? All of them were HARDWARE features that required Miele to add extra stuff on their machine (better drums, Better motors, Extra Screen, Extra Sensors etc).

Here we’re talking about absolutely easy SOFTWARE Features. We’re talking about EXTRA RINSE or PreWash. All of the hardware is there. Its only unavailable due to software restrictions.
Its not like Powerwash or Twin Dose.

I decided to get a Floor Model of a BASIC Miele washer which is supposed to perform BETTER that any other fancy washer. And yes I prefer to spend the money on a a nice trip somewhere around the world rather than giving Miele almost $2000 in order to get an Extra Rinse.
I was not upset about the lack of fancy touch screen or Powerwash or whatever requires hardware. But upset cause they decided to remove some cycles just to force you get the most expensive model. And don’t forget buys. “BASIC” Miele is over $1200 with taxes.

And when It’s time to look for a dishwasher first I will look for the build quality and then the features (and of course the price). If I can get a Dishwasher with good build quality but less features, I will prefer this over a fancy dishwasher which is gonna fail within a year.
That was the No1 reason I got the Miele. My decision will be made on the build quality and materials. Definitely I don’t wanna deal with a Plastic tub and the lack of 3rd Rack for silverware.

Now the fact that Miele was defective this is not a basic model or floor model thing. The Machine had an issue on what Miele used to call “WCS” unit on the back of the Machine. I’m sorry but I was not willing to wait almost a month for a part (This is what I got told. The Machine was still in Warranty).
Also what I’ve learned so far in the US is to try to buy local. I was always an AUDI and BMW fan but here Maintenance and Parts are incredibly expensive, so I switched to a FORD and I’m quite happy with it.
I knew even when I got my Heatpump dryer and the W3035 that I was alone in case something goes wrong But I didn’t expect something to go wrong SO fast.
That’s why I switched to LG. Yes is not local (I was looking for a Speed Queen but I’m not willing to spend so much money for a washer that is lacking internal heater and EXTRA HOT setting). but everyone supports and willing to service an LG. Its piece of cake to find Parts.

BTW I don’t use the Sanitize Cycle to kill germs but wash my white Sheets and Towels and keep them White. In Europe we wash our whites on 95c so Cotton Sheets and towels stay white forever without Bleach.
The “Sanitize” Wash temp in W3035 was enough to get my Kitchen towels White and Stain-free without the need of OXY or Bleach.





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