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Thread Number: 92450
/ Tag: Other Home Products or Autos
Bosch vs Vtg KitchenAid Dishwasher |
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| Post# 1170707 1/30/2023 at 09:18 (451 days old) by sarahperdue (Alabama) | ||
 Which one should I choose for my vintage kitchen in the country house?
I love the look of the KA and hear they are great, but I have a high end Bosch and love the performance. DH loves the quiet of the Bosch.
I'm starting to worry about my vintage appliances, particularly finding someone to work on them when the time comes.
I love you, John, but there are many miles between us. I'm not sure I want to become an expert in repairing all vintage appliances...
Sarah | ||
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Post# 1170728 , Reply# 1 1/30/2023 at 14:36 (451 days old) by RP2813  (Sannazay) |
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 Sarah, I bailed on vintage dishwashers after a Miele came into my possession, and I have never looked back. When I saw another, newer, higher end model at the ReStore, I grabbed it for the house we were moving into about five years ago. I took the other Miele to the new house and it's stored away for parts. Due to the ridiculously wasteful trophy home syndrome here in Silicon Valley, perfectly good, nearly new appliances are given the boot on a regular basis.
At our previous home, we were working with an original ho-hum 1927 kitchen that had received a few minor updates over the years, but our aim was to make it appear more with-it and viable with all new stainless steel appliances. Our current home had its 1922 kitchen tastefully modernized ~1990 or so. The Miele fits right in.
You have a decision to make with regard to aesthetics as well as comfort. In our case, superior performance and quiet operation are what we wanted. A vintage KA dishwasher will be quick, but it won't be at all quiet. In our small home, noise levels matter. Maybe there's a way to match your Bosch to the cabinetry. I think that would be a good compromise if it's still possible. | ||
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Post# 1170735 , Reply# 2 1/30/2023 at 16:30 (451 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Post# 1170742 , Reply# 3 1/30/2023 at 17:33 (451 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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Post# 1170744 , Reply# 4 1/30/2023 at 17:35 (451 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI) |
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If you are still doing the white steel cabinets, a Bosch with top controls in white should blend in quite well. You might even be able to find a somewhat matching handle to go with the rest of the pulls in the kitchen and swap it out for the stock handle. | ||
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Post# 1170761 , Reply# 5 1/30/2023 at 20:39 (451 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Post# 1170783 , Reply# 6 1/31/2023 at 10:17 (450 days old) by Marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Dublin) |
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| Post# 1170796 , Reply# 7 1/31/2023 at 15:50 (450 days old) by sarahperdue (Alabama) | ||
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KitchenAid | ||
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Post# 1170799 , Reply# 8 1/31/2023 at 16:56 (450 days old) by Marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Dublin) |
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If you were to go with a vintage KA, then I'd suggest the KDS-18 from the late 1970s. I really like mine. It's a great dishwasher to use in terms of convenience, racking and performance.
But the KA is definitely thirstier and noisier than a modern Miele/Bosch, even though I've added sound insulation. Your husband (and perhaps you) may not like having to put up with the noise. The only reason to go with a vintage machine is for the love of vintage and a desire to have a vintage machine. Otherwise, it would be far simpler to just order a new Bosch/Miele rather than trying to find a vintage KA.
Regarding performance, if we compare the heaviest cycles of these machines, I have found that my KDS-18 cleans as well or better than any Bosch/Miele I've used. But the KA normal cycle won't shift difficult food as well as a Miele/Bosch on their much longer normal/auto cycles.
Looking forward to seeing the photos of the finished house, whichever dishwasher you choose in the end! Mark | ||
| Post# 1170802 , Reply# 9 1/31/2023 at 17:25 (450 days old) by qsd-dan (West) | ||
 That said, what would you suggest I look for in a vintage KA?
KDS-18 if you don't mind having your water heater set to 160F. KDS-19 or KDS-20 if you want lower temps at the water heater (these machines pre heat the wash and rinse cycles to 150F). KDS-19 is air dry only, no heating element activated. That option was brought back again in the 20 but I never use it in any of my machines. You can go with a newer designed 21 and up series with a reversing motor but they only have one final rinse which really isn't adequate enough. These all have 1/2 horsepower motors (highest HP rating in a residential dishwasher) so they're anything but quiet. I love the sound of them though. | ||
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Post# 1170804 , Reply# 10 1/31/2023 at 18:14 (450 days old) by Marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Dublin) |
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Water temp
Yes the KDS-18 does need hot water, even though it does do some water heating on normal and quite a lot of water heating on Soak’N Scrub. My hot water is 55-60 °C / 130-140 °F. And I do have a hot water circulation pump, so every time the dishwasher fills, the incoming water is always immediately hot. Modern detergents seem to work well at lower temps. I also have a whole-house water softener.
Miele and Bosch dishwashers work with incoming water of any temp, including cold. And if you get one with its own built-in water softener, that will make a big difference if your water is hard and you don’t have a whole-house softener. Whereas the KA performance would be terrible if you fed it with cold, hard water. | ||
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Post# 1170843 , Reply# 11 2/1/2023 at 04:00 (449 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR) |
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Turquoise BOSCH??
Sarah, the suggestion for the white paneled Bosch is a good one but depending on the color of your cabinets it's possible the whites won't match. How about the Bosch with the white panel front painted to match one of the other appliances in the kitchen like the turquoise and the white handle that comes with the machine or a handle of some kind that more closer matches the look of your kitchen?
If I was alone I would go with the vintage KA because I like the sounds, the loading challenges in the one arm wonder machines and the look. But I am not alone and sometimes I need to compromise. My husband loves to cook and clean up but he is not a putzer (is that how you spell that?). He just wants to throw stuff in and move on. Since we had vintage in the old house he asked for modern in this house. My compromise was the BOSCH as our main dishwasher and a KDS-17 as a back up in the utility room and it works for us. | ||
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Post# 1170844 , Reply# 12 2/1/2023 at 04:03 (449 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Well, although my Bosch dishwasher has an internal heater, after trying some runs without running the hot water first, I've gone back to running the hot water in the nearby sink first to minimize the use of electricity. Cause the hot water heater is gas and generally speaking gas is cheaper to use to heat water than electricity, even in Californistan.
Also I'm noticing the runs take less time if the hot water is already on tap.
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Post# 1170850 , Reply# 13 2/1/2023 at 07:23 (449 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Modern vs vintage dishwasher.Modern versus vintage dishw
The best period for dishwashers in the United States was the 80s and 90s so you can get a dishwasher that really cleans it is not that Noisi and is still quite reliable.
That said Sarah I would not blame you for wanting a new dishwasher if so, I would definitely get a whirlpool Maytag or KitchenAid depending on what features do you like and your budget If you were considering a Bosch or MieleI would definitely find out if there’s somebody local that wants to work on the thing we turn down somewhere between 10 and 30 calls a week on Bosch dishwashers if you can’t even get them fixed here in Washington DC easily let alone in Alabama probably it might not be the best choice if you’re looking for no problems. . John. | ||
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Post# 1170868 , Reply# 14 2/1/2023 at 16:13 (449 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI) |
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Regarding the white Bosch not matching the cabinet color, ideally I'd remove the front panel and have it done at the same time the cabinets were being done for an exact match. | ||
| Post# 1170899 , Reply# 15 2/1/2023 at 19:29 (449 days old) by sarahperdue (Alabama) | ||
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Repairability | ||
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Post# 1170903 , Reply# 16 2/1/2023 at 19:42 (449 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Post# 1170904 , Reply# 17 2/1/2023 at 19:46 (449 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI) |
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Well got to think it's easier to get a Bosch repaired then a vintage KA. Really think the bosch is pretty dependable. | ||
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Post# 1170949 , Reply# 18 2/2/2023 at 10:44 (448 days old) by tennblondie78 (Bowling Green, KY) |
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Post# 1170956 , Reply# 19 2/2/2023 at 11:29 (448 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Yes, Stephanie is a wise woman. I've had my Bosch since May, 2021 and I am stil amazed at what I put in there that comes out clean that's been BobLoaded. 96% of the time I simply use Auto & Crystal Dry. I also enabled the Intensive Dry option. My model is part of the Bosch 800+ series. I wanted Crystal Dry and the MyWay rack. I'm in the minority that doesn't want the cutlery 3rd rack. But it's simply because I have cerebral palsey and I have to really focus at times to put flatware in the small area that's set aside for flatwarek that I see as no different than having a total rack for cutlery. Just too difficult for me, which I figured would be a problem for me before purchase. Main reason why I opposed the cutlery rack design.
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| Post# 1170960 , Reply# 20 2/2/2023 at 11:43 (448 days old) by sarahperdue (Alabama) | ||
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Bosch | ||
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Post# 1170982 , Reply# 21 2/2/2023 at 13:00 (448 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR) |
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Who would repair the BOSCH in your primary home?
Is that an option for the house you are doing? I don't know how far apart they are.
In my opinion the KA 18 - 20 series machines are not really that difficult to work on. If you went with Mark's suggestion of an 18 series up to maybe the 20 series you could still stock pile many of the parts needed to keep them going. I am not really all that technical and I have learned much about these machines on this site. It wouldn't address your sound concerns but the look would be closer to what you would want. | ||
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Post# 1170987 , Reply# 22 2/2/2023 at 13:32 (448 days old) by Marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Dublin) |
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The other thing to consider is that the KDS-18 only makes noise for 37 minutes on the normal cycle and then it's on to the fan-forced drying, for a total cycle time of 67 minutes. Soak'N Scrub adds an additional 41 minutes to that. Of course a Bosch or a new KA will be much quieter and a lot easier to buy! Whatever you decide, it doesn't have to be forever -- it's pretty easy to swap one dishwasher for another. I think a KDS-18, new Bosch and new KA are all great choices. It just depends on your priorities. Personally I love owning and using my vintage dishwashers but if noise is a major concern, go with the Bosch or new KA.
Mark | ||
| Post# 1171519 , Reply# 23 2/7/2023 at 14:00 (443 days old) by firedome (Binghamton NY & Lake Champlain VT) | ||
modern choices...
we thought about a new Bosch but the local dealer who sells them as well as KA/WP syas he's had major issues getting parts for machines more than a couple years old and they have considerably more problems than some other machines. It was true for our son's M-I-L, nothing but problems with her Bosch, she did like the quietness but finally got tired of dealing with it.
My opinion is that a lot of Bosch and Miehle owners don't like to admit that their expensive machines are anything less than wonderful, perhaps on the theory of sunk cost investment fallacy they hang on to them. KA gets my vote, new or vintage. | ||
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Post# 1171523 , Reply# 24 2/7/2023 at 14:53 (443 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI) |
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Many in my family have Bosch DWs and there has been zero issues. I have near TOL KA and have had zero issues also. I'd have no problem heartily recommending either. | ||
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Post# 1171700 , Reply# 25 2/9/2023 at 15:12 (441 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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To be blunt I don't buy the bullshit "my repairman said don't buy X ". I haven't had a problem with my Bosch Ascenta and my next door neighbor hasn't had a problem with her Bosch 500 series. When I did have that self caused problem when our LG washer was new I did ask the repair guy what he thought was the best was the most reliable brand of washer and he said "any one with an extended warranty" Now that's being truthful.
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Post# 1171727 , Reply# 27 2/9/2023 at 21:37 (441 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan and Palm Springs, CA) |
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Bosch racks are perfect for Centura coupe/Corelle. Lots of capacity for both dinner plates and side plates/saucers. The NYT did a review comparing dishwashers, and said essentially that Bosch is best but Whirlpool brands are very slightly behind but may work better if you have more dished/Pfaltzgraff type dishware.
Moral of the story is take your dishes to the store and test fit them. Nothing more irritating than stuff not fitting where it's logical/intended. | ||
| Post# 1172120 , Reply# 28 2/13/2023 at 14:57 (437 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan) | ||
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Some newer Kitchen Aids in stainless with the tiny slit vent on the top door edge have develped rust around the vent. One lady said hers was 6 months old. When she called them they told her it was because she wasn't using the heated dry option. Well, she said anyway. | ||
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Post# 1172153 , Reply# 29 2/13/2023 at 17:38 (437 days old) by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area) |
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KitchenAid rust Stainless steel shouldn't rust under normal conditions if it is good quality. Sounds like they may be using an inferior grade, such as 400 series instead of 304 or 316. | ||
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Post# 1172156 , Reply# 30 2/13/2023 at 18:56 (437 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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| Post# 1172212 , Reply# 31 2/14/2023 at 14:41 (436 days old) by beefsquatch (Buffalo, NY) | ||
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We wanted to keep the look of the original dishwasher in our kitchen, but wanted a new Bosch. So we combined the two, the best of both worlds. | ||
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Post# 1172218 , Reply# 32 2/14/2023 at 16:10 (436 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR) |
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Reply #31 | ||
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Post# 1172418 , Reply# 33 2/16/2023 at 18:46 (434 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Post# 1172465 , Reply# 34 2/17/2023 at 13:31 (433 days old) by jakeseacrest (Massachusetts) |
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| Post# 1172484 , Reply# 35 2/17/2023 at 18:44 (433 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia) | ||
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Wow that is clever. I'm impressed. | ||
| Post# 1173164 , Reply# 36 2/26/2023 at 13:57 (424 days old) by sarahperdue (Alabama) | ||
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wow! | ||
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Post# 1178512 , Reply# 38 4/19/2023 at 13:08 (372 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR) |
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I love that...
It reminds me just a little of the old Pull Out Westinghouse dishwasher because the front doesn't have the break in it. In Episode 1, Season 1 it looks Laura Petrie had a Westinghouse kitchen. That changed in Episode 2. This post was last edited 04/19/2023 at 13:29 | ||
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Post# 1178580 , Reply# 39 4/20/2023 at 11:16 (371 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Post# 1178599 , Reply# 40 4/20/2023 at 13:39 (371 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 1178740 , Reply# 41 4/22/2023 at 00:51 (370 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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| Post# 1178780 , Reply# 42 4/22/2023 at 17:09 (369 days old) by sarahperdue (Alabama) | ||
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Thanks y'all | ||
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Post# 1178788 , Reply# 43 4/22/2023 at 17:55 (369 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.) |
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#31
Yes!
That's what I was saying a couple of years ago. The dw's from the 50s-70s were junky on the inside but looked great on the front. Now it's just the opposite. They are great but look like nothing. Fortunately, the flat front is a free for-all to take the front panels off the old dw and attach it to the blank front on the new dw. Your painting the new panel is just as good. Impressive work. | ||
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