Thread Number: 92571  /  Tag: Other Home Products or Autos
personal electric vehicles 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 1171792   2/10/2023 at 13:29 (441 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        

-single person small battery driven vehicles: One-wheels,roverboards,scooters,bicycles,tricycles,mopeds,Segways,and others :) These things can be fun and practical for short commutes and the battery and motor technology is interesting.I have 4 of these vehicles:500w bike,2 e-zip 750s,and a "crazy cart"36v motor of unknown wattage on the crazy cart. Someone in my town has a neat e-trike with cargo basket at rear :)




Post# 1171794 , Reply# 1   2/10/2023 at 13:44 (441 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

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I'd go for an electric bike. One that just looks like a normal mens bicycle. Concern being someone stealing it if I parked it somewhere, even with a chain/lock etc. Bike theft here, probably like everywhere, is rampant these days.

Post# 1171848 , Reply# 2   2/10/2023 at 21:13 (440 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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I'd be a little cautious with electric bikes. I've read recently that some have defective lithium ion batteries that can malfunction and start a blaze that cannot easily be extinguished. Perhaps getting an electric bike from a reputable reseller or store is the best strategy.

 

If I find the article again I'll post a link here.
Post# 1171849 , Reply# 3   2/10/2023 at 21:25 (440 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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In the meantime, I found this informative article on lithium ion battery fires and safety.

 

Excerpt:

 

Recently, there have been a few incidents of fires caused by Lithium-Ion batteries. On January 8, 2019, spontaneous combustion of a lithium-ion battery caused the fire to break out on the COSCO Pacific, a vessel in the Arabian Sea, caused by the. In April last year, a 2MW battery at an APS facility in Arizona exploded, injuring four firefighters.

 

Hans-Otto Schjerven, head of the Vestfold Fire Department, said that rechargeable lithium batteries can cause “fires that are difficult to extinguish and the batteries emit fire that quickly spreads.” As the adoption of electric vehicles grows, these incidents are set to increase.

 

Before analyzing why lithium-ion batteries catch fire, let’s understand how they work. ...

 

CLICK HERE TO GO TO SudsMaster's LINK
Post# 1171850 , Reply# 4   2/10/2023 at 21:30 (440 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

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More info on lithium ion battery fires:

 

If you’re shopping for an e-bike, look for one with a battery that has a UL Certified label. Then follow the manufacturer’s instructions for charging and storage, and always use the power adapter and cord supplied by the manufacturer.

 

Don’t ever leave the battery charging overnight or while you’re not home.

 

If you need a new battery, buy it from the same manufacturer as your e-bike.

 

If at any time the battery starts doing anything unusual, like making a hissing sound, or smells odd, you should unplug it immediately.

 

One other safety tip from Consumer Reports: Always keep batteries away from heat sources such as heaters and direct sunlight when you’re charging them, and make sure there’s no flammable material nearby.

 

CLICK HERE TO GO TO SudsMaster's LINK
Post# 1171851 , Reply# 5   2/10/2023 at 21:42 (440 days old) by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area)        

Lots of videos online about FDNY responding to fires caused by e-bikes and other lithium battery items. They have a special team that responds to dispose of the burning battery. I saw where they pack them in a metal can with dry ice to get them to stop burning.

Post# 1171881 , Reply# 6   2/11/2023 at 07:31 (440 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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Leeuwarden is the home town of the Carver company. They make sort of a covered electric motorbike.

carver.earth/en/...



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Post# 1171974 , Reply# 7   2/11/2023 at 19:42 (439 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

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With all these break downs and fires, as opposed to safe, reliable transportation, it looks like a lot of these electric vehicle owners are going to be left walking…



— Dave

Post# 1172070 , Reply# 8   2/12/2023 at 17:41 (438 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        

there was quite a problem with lithium batteries in roverboards flaming up-"LiPo"batteries are especially fire prone-I always have those under supervision while charging :) All of my small EVs have lead-acid "AGM"batteries very high reliability since there is so little to go wrong.The E-Zip scooters I have did wear their wheel sprockets very fast-soft chinesium steel...

Post# 1172115 , Reply# 9   2/13/2023 at 13:19 (438 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        

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Lithium battery failures do often hit the news, but the real question is how significant is the ACTUAL risk?? It certainly isn't anything I'd ever consider not using a Lithium battery for. It is wise to be careful, but silly to be paranoid.

And it is also important not to lump all Lithium battery chemistries in the same group. LiFePo4 batteries don't have safety issues like the older Lithium Polymer variants did. A year ago I purchased a 100ah 12v SOK LiFePo4 battery for portable power. Boy do they make lead acid "deep" cycle batteries look every bit as awful as they are, never again. About the only thing lead acid is good for is frequently used starting batteries in vehicles...

Two years ago I bought a 400 watt scooter. It has a 48v LiPo battery and offers about 15 mile range at about 15 mph on flat ground. It folds up and is easy to carry and take on the train etc. I use it more for pleasure than commuting, but were I more in the city I could see real utility in one of these. While I am an avid bicyclist, I think I'd take the scooter over an E-Bike as it is so much more versatile, but really they aren't fair to compare as their roles are quite different.

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Post# 1172116 , Reply# 10   2/13/2023 at 14:38 (438 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
The way some jerks drive today;

 No way! I want some heft around me. Maybe human sized drones would be better. Pick me up, and fly me to point B.
Some miss the old America. I don't know why because they, and I will be gone in less than 40 years. Don't have tim eto make it my problem.

Post# 1172394 , Reply# 11   2/16/2023 at 05:50 (435 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

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Working in ER and radiology at Vanderbilt I've seen more than a few patients who were severely injured on a scooter. I wouldn't be caught dead on one, especially in Nashville!

Post# 1172398 , Reply# 12   2/16/2023 at 09:39 (435 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Vehicle fires - regardless of fuel type - are very common.
But compared to actual accident numbers, they are minute.

Same goes with the injuries. I've seen enough people get into bike accidents without any pedal assist that look HORRIFIC afterwards to know having any road accident is horrific, going fast makes things worse.
And these EVs often let people who don't know how to go fast safely go fast.



Lithium batteries are very stable - until they aren't.

The problem with them burning is that they don't burn like fuel does.
It is an oxidation reaction - like a fire - but the temperatures reached are way higher. To the point where water just doesn't work anymore.

The incident energy is absurd.
The only way to really do anything about them is plunging into water - with only the thermal mass of several times the devices weight in water is what's calming the reaction.
Which might be easy with a phone - but harder with a car.




I still remember one of my first days working in retail.

First customer of the day, me knowing nothing, and him walking in with his phone that cought fire in his pocket.

When these things go wrong they do go wrong badly.




But it's not that you can't design safe batteries regardless of chemistry.

Most accidents later on turn out to be at least partly because of improper handling.

Many EV car fires that happen all of the sudden turn out that the cars had an accident in the past.
Many E-bike fires happen when people "hack" those to be higher power or similar.
And those hoverboards - well, if something that's expensive over here all of the sudden can be bought a tenth of the price from china, they will cut corners somewhere.

It's one of the reasons many EVs have high insurance premiums regardless of driver record.
If you have an accident, and there is ANY doubt on the integrity of the battery, no repair service will let the vehicle of the lot without a complete battery replacement.
That means a small, inner city collision that just dents a corner of the pack a few millimeters results in tens of thousands of dollars in repairs or a total.

Post# 1176809 , Reply# 13   4/1/2023 at 18:51 (390 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        

was looking at '70s electric cars:Citicar,Elcar,etc, and discovered Sinclair in England (remember that small,simple PC they marketed around 1981?)offered a 3-wheel,single seat personal EV in 1985:250w motor and pedals :) Did not sell well-a lot of these personal EVs can be an awkward fit in some areas because they are too much of a motor vehicle in pedestrian traffic and too much of a "pedestrian" vehicle to safely use in regular motor vehicle traffic -especially low-slung ones...

Post# 1176816 , Reply# 14   4/1/2023 at 19:37 (390 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)        

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The battery fires are 1. probably over hyped for the media 2. a sign of how popular these various "vehicles" are that the Chinese have made them so cheaply to sell in mass on line.  They skimped them too much.

 

I want to get of the skooters in #9

 

I rode an electric bike back in 2008 and it was just awesome cruising along going up a hill and not having to do any pedaling.  Now they make them with a easy to remove battery and some with a stator type motor with a removable tire.   You still have the same safety concerns as a non-powered bike.

 

It's amazing the new vehicles they are coming up with.  Fully enclosed golf carts with signals, AC, headlamps, and stereo.  Electric motor bikes. And yes the passenger drone or taxi.  

 

 

 
Post# 1176881 , Reply# 15   4/2/2023 at 08:22 (390 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        
motors for small EVs

 I have seen those direct drive,BLDC,cycle wheels that are basicly a F&P smartdrive type motor with a tire :) Geared BLDC motors are common along with good old brushed DC and it is also possible to "motor"a car alternator with a BLDC controller if the alternator field rotor is "excited" by a couple amps of DC current.


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