Thread Number: 93578  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
How Do We Feel About The Miele W1 Range? 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 1182359   6/12/2023 at 00:46 (321 days old) by matthewza (Cape Town, South Africa)        

How do we feel about the Miele W1 range?
Following the W5740 I bought last week, I came across a WKH 121 WPS (twindos and powerwash model) for a really good deal. So I sold the W5740 and I've listed my Siemens as well, so that I can get this W1. I haven't had any bites on the Siemens yet, so I figured I'd just ask the experts again re the W1.
Does anyone here have 1? What are your thoughts and feelings about it? Especially if you have a twindos model.
This one I'm looking at came out of a holiday apartment owned by a German couple, so was only used about 4 times a year. So even though the machine is about 7 years old, it's in great condition. I went to the seller on Friday and ran a 20 min express wash just to check that everything works and sounds good. And it does. It fills, heats, drains, doesn't have any leaks, and is super quiet, even more so than my Siemens. BUT at the end of the cycle the machine said that the container 1 detergent is empty. But it's about 3 quarters full still. So based on research, this means the pipes for the twindos system are blocked, so that's a call to the Miele man to come out and unblock, as apparently when this happens, running the twindos maintenance cycle won't clear the blockage.
Basically, if this is the only "fault" on the machine, would it be wise to sell my 3 year old Siemens for this 7 year old Miele?




Post# 1182364 , Reply# 1   6/12/2023 at 02:05 (321 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

mrboilwash's profile picture
In your other thread you mentioned the other Miele skips one rinse when washing at 60 or higher.

My 20 years old Miele is showing signs of failing motor bearings. it could be months or even years but sooner or later I`ll have to buy a new washer.

Haven`t made a decision yet because it`s not urgent at all but I think the W1 range does exactly the same thing, reduce the cycle by one rinse at higher temperatures and this would be the greatest deal breaker for me to go with another Miele.

Post# 1182366 , Reply# 2   6/12/2023 at 02:51 (321 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
Hasn't this been a thing with Miele for many, many years? Cotton 60° and above performing two rinses? It is my understanding that this has to do with the temperature-guided sensor rinse. Other have said the reasoning is that a hot wash wouldn't require as much detergent.

I just briefly looked at two W1 manuals and both said that the rinses are reduced - unless you add extra rinse or whatever other option to increase rinsing.

Post# 1182367 , Reply# 3   6/12/2023 at 03:46 (321 days old) by matthewza (Cape Town, South Africa)        
Reduced Rinses...

 So this is not a huge issue for me, as the Water Plus button can be programmed to add an extra rinse as well as increase water levels. I also know that from the Miele manual, if you reduce the spin speed below 700 rpm, the machine then adds an extra rinse.

Also, my Siemens only does 2 rinses on all cycles, and does not have an Extra Rinse option. Only the Hygiene cycle does 4 rinses. This has never been an issue for me, as if I have felt that a load needs another rinse, I just run a Rinse/Spin after the cycle.

I mainly wanted to know, in the experts opinion, if it would be a wise gamble to swap out my Siemens for this W1, and if the current W1 users on this platform are happy with their machines, and can recommend them?

Post# 1182368 , Reply# 4   6/12/2023 at 04:36 (321 days old) by Lavamat_jon (UK)        

Hi Matthew,

I’ve been fortunate enough to own and use several different W1 models over the years. My first one was the model above the one you are looking at (WKR571), and I’ve also had a WMH122 which is the 9kg version which I sold on to a friend. I have also had a WMV960 previously, and I currently own an M Touch model (WCR870) and run it alongside a modern Siemens as my daily machines.

It really depends what you are looking for out of a machine - for the standard length cycles these perform well across the board, and the full length cycles for cottons are a lot shorter than on most other modern brands. Most cycles are very flexible, and you do also have quite a few special programmes on this machine for darks, duvets, etc so that should cover all bases. This model will have the first version of Powerwash 2.0, which is quite ropey compared to the current version - it will max at 8 litres and won’t adapt back to a full load if it has initially sensed wrongly - the easy solution here will be to use water plus for any loads you know that will be absorbent e.g. towels.

The dedicated shorter cycles leave a bit to be desired, on Miele the focus seems to be only on time rather than rinsing and spinning on the short cycles. The express cycle for example will only rinse once and spin at 1200, compared to twice (with an option of a third) and a full fast spin on the older generation. This means you have to run a separate rinse and fast spin afterwards, which is another 28 mins on top. The QuickPowerwash on the WKH121 will be the older, 59 minute version which did a more thorough job of rinsing and spinning compared to the new 49 minute version. You will also be able to activate water plus and this will do 2 longer rinses with a spin between the rinses too.

In comparison, the Siemens rapid cycles will rinse twice as standard with the ability to add extra (although you are still limited to a 1200 spin), and you can run the mixed load programme at either 45mins or 1 hour with a fast spin - which I find works better than the Miele QPW. However if you use the full length cycle, at full capacity, you will be looking at an hour or so more than the Miele. I tend to use the full cycles on the Miele, but never really use the full length on the Siemens as either Mixed or Cottons with variospeed will do the job.

All cotton cycles on the W1s I’ve had will do 2 rinses as standard, even on the lower temperatures despite the manual saying it will do 3. On the machines I’ve had from this particular range, they used the recirculation pump a lot more often on the rinses. The WKR571 and WMV960 would run the recirculation for a minute during each rinse on cottons, rather than just on the final as my current M Touch does. This is fine, but it does end up dumping a small amount of sudsy wash water straight into the final rinse. I find rinsing only average on the Mieles default setting in honesty, the Siemens does have the edge of doing a better job of rinsing and spinning by default. However the beauty of the Mieles is the programming - you can programme in permanently maximum rinse levels (and a permanent extra rinse using “Allergy” in the service programming menu), and you also have the Allergowash option which will do multiple rinses alongside a steam cycle after the wash.

Build wise - the W1 range with the 1 or 2 prefix were the revised first generation models which addressed some of the earlier issues with the first range, and also introduced the Powerwash 2 system mentioned above across the board. Some niggles to watch for are twanging drum springs (these were upgraded on later models, as well as the spin profile being updated to adapt for this) - the fix was introduced during the life of the 1/2 prefix range so it would be something to watch out for. Doesn’t affect performance, but could be annoying if the machine is close to your living quarters.

The TwinDos issue can be quite problematic even with frequent use and maintenance, but it does seem to be luck of the draw - I had to have a sensor and a pump changed on my current machine as it wouldn’t register the containers, yet previous machines were all fine. Be sure to ask the current owners for the empty containers, as it is much more cost effective to use your own detergent. You will also need these to perform regular cleaning and maintenance of the TwinDos lines. Another thing with this particularly range was that they were overly fussy with the load balancing - not a problem in the end as most often it will spin at max speed rather than limiting after 3 attempts (as with the 2000/3000/5000 series), but if this is something that would bother you it is worth bearing in mind.

I think if you can get an engineer out to the machine to sort the TwinDos out it would be well worth getting him to update the machine which should give you the more accurate Powerwash 2 rhythm, an updated spin profile to avoid the springs clanging, and should also be a bit more lenient with the spin balancing. However it might “upgrade” the older, 59 minute QuickPowerwash to the newer 49 minute version which isn’t as good, so worth keeping this in mind.

These are great, solid machines and as long as you can work round some of the niggles as with any machine I think you will be very happy.

Sorry for the long post - but I do hope it helps going some way towards making your decision.

Jon

Post# 1182370 , Reply# 5   6/12/2023 at 05:05 (321 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

I had 2 W1 machines, both 1600rpm and PowerWash.
I've always been looking for machines that wash well AND as efficiently as possible.

And the W1s have been exactly that.
I for one was very impressed with the PowerWash system. On 95% of my loads, it worked perfectly well. Could get true temp washes with less usage.
If the load called for it, I just added a prewash. I always had my water plus set to only add a rinse, not raise water level since that would switch from PowerWash to a normal wash cycle if selected.
On this machine, you have the ProgramManager, and most options in there deactivated PowerWash aswell.
Selecting a prewash on these is done via the "Heavy Soil" setting that also influences the TwinDos dosing.

That way, I could get a short wash (1h main wash) with PowerWash and 3 rinses in under 2h.



The reason anything post Novotronic (I think that's when they started) does 2 rinses at 60 or above is the same reason the professional machines recommend warm rinsing if warm water is connected.
You get better extraction from warm laundry and better rinse efficiency with warm water. Even if your machine is cold fill only, at 60C the first rinse is basically warm still. That's the idea - but I did find the rinse result to be lacking.
Partial loads (so any PowerWash sensed cycle) and short cycles do 2 by default anyway - the third rinse being run by default is the exception there.



You can always try to run the TwinDos maintenance cycle but if they only used the machine every couple of months, yet used TwinDos, that most likely means taking apart the machine and cleaning it out.
But - since you were ready to clean the drain vent on the previous machine - cleaning the TwinDos piping is a pretty similar operation.
So you might want to try it yourself before spending on a service call.

Post# 1182389 , Reply# 6   6/12/2023 at 11:13 (321 days old) by Matthewza (Cape Town, South Africa)        
@ lavamatjon

Thank you very much for the very detailed response - all the info is greatly appreciated.

Glad to hear you enjoy your W1. My Siemens is also quite modern, purchased new in 2020. iq300 9kg 1400 rpm model. It doesn't have an extra rinse button, but if I have a load that needs an extra rinse, I just run a separate rinse after the cycle. Quick/Mix 40C is my go to for most loads. If it's not a full load I use VarioSpeed, but if it's full I leave it on the 1 hour default. I find that if I select the butter and grease anti stain option it's ups the water level and increased the wash rhythm. So I use that quite often too. Cottons 60 with VarioSpeed I use for towels and whites and bedding. Don't often use the rapid cycle but when I do I select 40C so it ups it to 35 mins.

Will definitely speak to the tech about the software update. After reading this I don't think I would want to upgrade to the shorter power wash, haha. I noticed that on this W1, when I looked at it, if I set it to Cottons 40 with short, it comes down to 59 mins, same as power wash. So that looks promising. The W5740 on Cottons 40 with short was 1hr49min - a lot longer compared to the Siemens 1hr quick/mix 😅

I may just try and keep the Siemens for a week or 2, while having the Miele, just incase I change my mind for whatever reason.

Post# 1182390 , Reply# 7   6/12/2023 at 11:16 (321 days old) by Matthewza (Cape Town, South Africa)        
@henene4

Thank you so much for the feedback - really puts me at ease reading such good feedback. Very glad that you like your W1 so much.

I am flattered that you think I could unblock the twindos pipes - I found a YouTube video explaining the process and it looks way more complex than the drain vent pipe - a bit more than what I would feel comfortable tackling on my own 😅

Post# 1182407 , Reply# 8   6/12/2023 at 15:06 (320 days old) by Mrlaundry1011 (South Wales, UK)        
W1

 I’ve had my W1 just over a year now and I love it. It’s the best machine I’ve ever had and used. It’s not 100% perfect but it’s as close to perfect for me a machine has gotten so far, though I do also love my Siemens 4D and Fisher and paykel AI, Miele is top 💯. Also love my matching T1, best dryer I’ve had so far too. Seeing how I love my W1 and the T1, will hopefully purchase a WT1 one day to see how they perform.

Post# 1182409 , Reply# 9   6/12/2023 at 16:11 (320 days old) by Jerrod_Six (Eastern Pennsylvania, USA)        

I’m in the USA and have a W1. When I get the “detergent container empty message”, I check the container since there is usually some detergent left in it. I simply re-insert the container and continue to use the machine a few more times until the container is fully empty.

I also have a Miele dishwasher and I think I read in the manual that the rinse aid refill message will be displayed and that you still have enough for 3 or 4 runs. I’m not sure that is what is going on with my W1 but It will continue to dispense detergent until the container is completely empty.


Post# 1182412 , Reply# 10   6/12/2023 at 17:42 (320 days old) by Stephen (Palm Springs CA USA)        
Adjusting TwinDos level from App

 I have a WXI860 US version.
In the app you can adjust the current levels of TD 1 and 2.

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Post# 1184004 , Reply# 11   7/2/2023 at 15:47 (300 days old) by Photopuppet (Chelmsford)        

We love our W1 Eco washer, it seems built like a tank and handles all our baby related laundry easily!

Does anyone know if it possible to change the drum bearings by removing the cast iron frame attached to the back of the tub without having to dismantle the entire machine like some other washers? Hopefully it'll last a long time but just wondering if this approach is possible.😀




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Post# 1184027 , Reply# 12   7/2/2023 at 21:28 (300 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Reply number 11 replacing bearings

 combo52's profile picture
These are basically a smaller version of the Speed Queen commercial quality front load washers built in the US.

Yes, you can replace the bearings and seals assembly without tearing the whole machine apart.

Problem may be is if the shaft is damaged or the seal surface on the shaft is worn to say nothing of the aluminum spider in the Miele That might be corroded and getting ready to break so You still have to take the whole machine apart and replace additional parts.

John

Post# 1184049 , Reply# 13   7/3/2023 at 10:57 (300 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

I haven't seen anyone actually doing it, but all videos of people taking them apart suggest that it should be possible.







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