Thread Number: 93940  /  Tag: Other Home Products or Autos
Incandescent light bulb BAN goes into effect next week
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Post# 1186113   7/28/2023 at 22:04 (294 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)        

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I'm not totally sure but I think it excludes things like mini christmas light bulbs and other specialty bulbs.

At this point, I'm sold on the LEDs anyway. Especially if they are replicating the amberish glow of an incandescent bulb. The efficiency is awesome.


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Post# 1186116 , Reply# 1   7/28/2023 at 22:23 (294 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

No big deal for me, 99% of my many bulbs are LED. I am wondering about specialty bulbs, like oven lights that would be difficult to convert to LED.


Post# 1186121 , Reply# 2   7/28/2023 at 22:46 (294 days old) by Adam-aussie-vac (Canberra ACT)        
It really makes me wonder, what’s going to happen with

With appliance bulbs, oven bulbs nightlight bulbs stuff with specific applications that could potentially require a filament

Post# 1186135 , Reply# 3   7/29/2023 at 02:01 (294 days old) by Sudsomatic (Indiana)        

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Night light bulbs have been available as LED for several years now, also my 2018 fridge uses LED lighting, and I have had an LED bulb in my dryer, that I replaced the incandescent one for about 7 years ago.

 

I do wonder about ovens too though, and microwaves.


Post# 1186144 , Reply# 4   7/29/2023 at 07:29 (294 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Incandescent lightbulb, phase out

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There’s no problem using LED bulbs in microwave ovens. Also, the bulbs under over the range. Microwave ovens are switching out to LEDs.

Lightbulbs inside ovens will continue to be incandescent and be readily available. You’re heating the oven with resistance electric heat anyway so the bulb is actually assisting the heating of the oven that’s really what incandescent lightbulbs are best at anyway is heating Lighting efficiency is very low with incandescent bulbs.

John.


Post# 1186156 , Reply# 5   7/29/2023 at 10:46 (294 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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"Specialty" incandescent bulbs will reasonably continue to be available for applications such an oven cavity where exposure to high temperatures is a factor.

I tried dimmable LED flood bulbs as a test in one of the auditoriums at the theater.  Didn't work with the electronic dimming system so I put them in the lobby.

I wonder, however, about halogen bulbs.  I have a couple puck-lights with three levels via a touchpad to illuminate chatchkas on a shelf above my family room TV.  One of the bulbs went out so I changed them both to LED bulbs which claim to be dimmable but the levels are erratic.  Low is medium, medium is high, high is barely visible.  My OTR microwave with high/low levels has halogen bulbs.


Post# 1186163 , Reply# 6   7/29/2023 at 12:44 (294 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine)        

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Incandescent bulbs non non=existent here and staring next year, all florescent bulbs are outlawed here, including curly ones. Its LED only from now on in this state.

Post# 1186183 , Reply# 7   7/29/2023 at 17:24 (294 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)        

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I can't believe there was this big push a while back to get everyone using fluorescent and compact fluorescents.
Those contain mercury.
And of course the compact ones, though they need special handling and disposal requirements, most people probably just throw them in the garbage.

I don't think there is any application remaining that fluorescent was doing that LEDs can't do better and in less space. It's just amazing.



Post# 1186188 , Reply# 8   7/29/2023 at 18:13 (294 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine)        

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LED bulbs are fine but... I bought a 12 pack of curly compact ones for 99 cents at Walmart, lowest cost LED bulbs I have seen is at least 2 bucks each.

Post# 1186493 , Reply# 9   8/1/2023 at 10:31 (291 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

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I can live with this as long as it’s not mandatory as in backed by and conveyed by some gestapo patrolling every structure actively ordering bulbs taken out which are in an active use not yet ready to burn out and the LED’s replacing them be as ready to use and as bright, efficient and long-lasting as meeting these government standards as well as my own—ditto for that yellow-like, amberish glow we're so used to as well!

Someone should have raided Thomas Edison’s laboratory, then, a long time ago…


— Dave


Post# 1186542 , Reply# 10   8/1/2023 at 19:20 (290 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)        
Ban starts today

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AFter 16 years of b.s.


-----

Dave, I have no doubt the FBI has you on top of their list. They're coming for any kind of incandescent bulb and will punish you big time. They'll also be confiscating all the potato chips and tubs of ice cream you've been hoarding. You're going to be blubbering like a pu..... on the side of the road when they're done with you.


-----

For normal people, it just means retailers can't sell most incandescent bulbs.

I wonder how this will play out on Ebay and the like with things like 1960s GE C7 or C9 Christmas light sets.



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Post# 1186568 , Reply# 11   8/2/2023 at 01:18 (290 days old) by Adam-aussie-vac (Canberra ACT)        
it does make me wonder,

Why can’t we put in high intensity discharge bulbs, the kind that use a ballast and igniter, such as say for outdoor lighting and fluorescent for indoor lighting

Post# 1186576 , Reply# 12   8/2/2023 at 06:50 (290 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

HID lamps can actually be more efficient than LED-in lumens per watt.Esp ceramic metal halide.Used by plant growers,some streetlights and indoor highbay lights.Also BETTER color quality than LED.Some LED lamps do allow you to adjust their color.That is something HID can't do-you have to change lamps.

Post# 1186581 , Reply# 13   8/2/2023 at 09:51 (290 days old) by philcobendixduo (San Jose)        
Years ago....

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......PG&E (our gas/electric provider) was subsidizing the cost CFL bulbs making them extremely inexpensive to purchase.
I bought a LARGE supply at the local hardware chain store (OSH) and still have MANY.
I am one to use things up before buying new so will most likely be using CFLs for many years to come.
I do have some LED bulbs (refrigerator, hanging light with candelabra bulbs, post lamp...) Christmas lights as well.
CFLs have presented some issues for me. When they fail, they tend to do so with smoke and burning smells.
CFLs also don't "play nice" with lighted wall switches. In a 3 way switch application, the CFL flashed on and off when it was turned off so I had to replace it with an incandescent bulb.
On the flip side, LED bulbs require compatible dimmers and don't work well with "old school" dimmers.


Post# 1186586 , Reply# 14   8/2/2023 at 11:01 (290 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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Incandescent bulbs that are allowed:

- appliances (refrigerators and ovens)
- black lights
- bug lights
- colored bulbs
- infrared
- left-handed threads
- plant lights
- floodlamps
- reflector bulbs
- showcase bulbs
- traffic lights
- other specialty bulbs such as marine and odd sizes


Post# 1186603 , Reply# 15   8/2/2023 at 13:28 (290 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
LED lights in ovens

They are a thing.
Most upper end models now have them over here.

They require certain heat sinking systems to be included to keep the LED temps in check - but they even survive self cleaning, so.

Biggest difference there is that the chips themselves can get quite hot if rated for it, thus, these from factory solutions just let that part get hot-ish.
Removing the driving circuit from the actual LED chips means that you can cool the driving electronics with the rest of the electronics somewhere in the system. The chip itself can survive 200F, and you can keep it there quite easily.
Keep in mind cool touch doors exist and aren't particularly thick either.



On another note, we have a large low voltage lamp installation in our house back home.
Used to be halogen - total about 300W. You'd hear the transformer with its nice 50Hz humm.

Replaced all of them with LEDs last year because we wouldn't even turn it on because of how much it used.
It's now a tenth of the power with the same lighting quality.


Post# 1186604 , Reply# 16   8/2/2023 at 13:48 (290 days old) by estesguy (kansas)        

I never liked the curly fluorescent ones. Some brands took 1/2 second after flipping switch to light up. Doesn't sound like much but annoyed me when your used to incandescent bulbs instant on. But the bigger problem was using them in cold environments like garages in the winter. Those things would take a minute or more to reach full brightness, and when all you wanted to do was step out for a minute, you couldn't see anything. Plus the mercury issue..good riddance to those things. I just try and make sure the LEDs I buy are 2700-3000 Kelvin for warm white incandescent color inside my home.

Post# 1186611 , Reply# 17   8/2/2023 at 16:47 (290 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

There are few things    I hate more than CFLs. Hate the flat diffuse quality of their light output. Also hate some LEDs that have that flat light. Much prefer focused lighting in the home.


Post# 1186718 , Reply# 18   8/3/2023 at 13:40 (289 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        

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I wouldn’t miss if these bans were banned “more than an abscessed tooth” to quote Hans/Norgeway.

Post# 1186738 , Reply# 19   8/3/2023 at 15:35 (289 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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@Tolivac: Remember Venture's formed arc tub pulse start metal halides? Those gave the best white light I've ever seen by far at exceptional lumens per what with great lumen maintenance. Like better than daylight. Color were edible, the air was like whine.

 

 

A lot of LEDs are over driven and get progressively dimmer as they age.


Post# 1186750 , Reply# 20   8/3/2023 at 19:23 (288 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
Cleanup in Isle 19

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Ooops- Meant to say *tube and *wine. Forgive the spelling- I'm awful at spelling words.   

 

 

Regarding LEDs I kind of have to agree with what someone called them over at a popular lighting forum "light emitting decorations" I think of that acronym every time I see LED lights and have him to thank in a good way. Don't get me wrong, LEDs have their place, but not all the LED lighting retrofits I've seen are to me love. 

 

For example,  a lot of the Cobra Heads around me have been replaced by LEDs that literally look like a sharp bullet of light coming from a central locus. Lots of pointy light around the fixture, yet ground and adjacent area coverage is really poor. The flat lens HPS were way better IMO.

 

Personally if it were me, I'd have street lighting at low pressure sodium. IIRC Advance Ballasts and Several lighting manufacturers offered a single coil reactive ballast that could drive a 35 or 55 watt HPS lamp  at 480 volts input. Nothing simpler or more elegant IMO.

 

 


Post# 1186764 , Reply# 21   8/3/2023 at 20:34 (288 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
I did Remember Correctly!

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Oh! Found it, my favorite ballast! Page 4-46 (165)

 

https://s3.amazonaws.com/cesco-content/unilog/Batch5/781087/116417-Catalog.pdf

 

Wiring diagram points to figure C, and "R-PFC" means reactive single coil choke ballast, power factor corrected.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This elegant ballast lets you drive 35, 55 and 90 watt Low Pressure Sodium lamps without an igniter. Igniters are common on European SOX lamps and do fail. The 480 volt open circuit voltage strikes the arc, while the inductor then limits the current to a point where the arc voltage is dropped to a suitable level for warm up and normal operations. 

 

That means there is nothing to go wrong. No extra windings or igniters to fail like on HPS and Metal Halide.

 

480 volts is also a great voltage to run outdoor lighting circuits at- common on highways and bridges- most cobra heads on DOT roadways are fed at 480 volts line to line. Sadly because the open circuit voltage for common HPS and metal halides isn't 480, the need for complex regulation (trapazoid volt/current curves for HPS // peaked OCV for MH warm up), tight constant wattage limits and the need for a 2-4kv starting pulse leads to fixtures having an absolutely MASSIVE, HOT, Heavy,  multi winding multi tapped capacitor in series iron ballast with an igniter that fails in short order when the bulb starts cycling or gives out completely.

 

A choke ballast on the other hand has nothing that can fail. Can easily last 40-60 years. Bulb can be swapped out without having to worry if the ballast/igniter is good or will give out before the next re-lamping cycle. Its like having a preheat fluorescent tube but without the need for a starter. Instant start cold cathode corona discharge, done with a single core and coil. cool Nothing in lighting technology comes closer to simplicity other than an incandescent bulb or a neon indicator in series with a resistor.  


Post# 1186776 , Reply# 22   8/3/2023 at 22:23 (288 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine)        

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I know LED stop lights around here will not melt snow so drivers have to go cautiously, but can we get all LED bulbs at a low cost that we need now and NOT have to buy new fixtures.

Post# 1186785 , Reply# 23   8/4/2023 at 00:53 (288 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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Yup. A lot of existing fluorescent, HID and Incandescent fixtures are now being retrofitted to LED. Ballast bypassed and the socket re-used, line voltage directly to the self ballasted LED corn cob.

 

 

Though, if it were me, parking lot lights, street lights, wall packs, posts, bollards, awning and most outdoor fixtures would be SOX Low Pressure Sodium. Monochromatic yellow can be so much fun ;)


Post# 1186803 , Reply# 24   8/4/2023 at 07:31 (288 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        

I have 3 18w* SOX lamps in my backyard-they were made in 1982-start out dim and reddish,warm up to the monochrome yellow after a few min.SOX and all the HID lamps are far superior to LED for pleasant,effective,non light polluting outdoor lighting-(more on this subject later when i get around to making a post on the subject )

Post# 1186817 , Reply# 25   8/4/2023 at 13:46 (288 days old) by fisherpaykel (BC Canada)        
Flat light from LED's

@MattL, I agree with your flat light comment, I succumbed to buying LED floodlights for my family room track lights and regret the flat light they produce. a couple/few of them have failed at shorter time than their supposed long life. Re street lighting it's as though the science of lighting engineering has gone out the window and the concept of parabolic reflectors dispersing light while minimizing direct glare is totally forgotten.

Post# 1186821 , Reply# 26   8/4/2023 at 14:23 (288 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

There are lots of focused narrow beam LEDs.  I have dozens around the house as up lights and in recessed cans.


Post# 1186826 , Reply# 27   8/4/2023 at 15:41 (288 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine)        

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In a snowstorm, the LED traffic lights cover with snow and can not generate enough heat to melt them, causing a safety hazard.

Post# 1186838 , Reply# 28   8/4/2023 at 18:55 (288 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
LED traffic lights during snow storms

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I’m sure this problem will be solved with a little bit of re-engineering and adding a little bit of electric heat. That’s thermostatically controlled to the traffic signals so they can warm up enough to take care of ice and snow.

This type of problem is easily solved. There’s no reason to use in efficient incandescent lightbulbs for this reason,when only necessary 20% of the time on probably 20% of the traffic signals in the US does not justify wasting all that energy not to go to LEDs.

John


Post# 1186859 , Reply# 29   8/4/2023 at 22:28 (287 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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have 3 18w* SOX lamps in my backyard-they were made in 1982-start out dim and reddish,warm up to the monochrome yellow after a few min.SOX and all the HID lamps are far superior to LED for pleasant,effective,non light polluting outdoor lighting-(more on this subject later when i get around to making a post on the subject )

 

 

Couldn't agree more. The red light is so beautiful complimenting the sun sets. IIRC the warm up time is like 8-10 minutes, the longest of any gaseous discharge lamp. I love it! 

 

I encourage anyone to research the lumens per watt of LPS for LED.

 

LPS also cuts through fog better than LED.

 

I wish LPS caught on in the US the way it did in Europe.


Post# 1186862 , Reply# 30   8/4/2023 at 23:02 (287 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        

Seems LPS was promoted some in the US early 1980s-the 3 '82 vintage fixtures I have are wallpacs made by Verd-a-ray with original Holland Philips-Norelco bulbs.A fourth 18w SOX fixture I have was made in 1999 and UK made Philips bulb.Europe seems to going to LED lately-a little cheaper to run possibly,but really ghastly performance and color-good that they usually dim out noticably after as few as 9 months :) Optics are usually really bad with the LED lamps too.

Post# 1186863 , Reply# 31   8/4/2023 at 23:40 (287 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)        

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Interesting article comparing different light sources.

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Post# 1186867 , Reply# 32   8/5/2023 at 00:04 (287 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)        

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Those old HPS and other bulbs that need a transformer are kind of scary.

The transformer makes noise so right there that's a big no for me.
I have seen situations where the transformer literally leaked substance, probably some type of toxic oil.

And the bulbs are not stable. They will lose their intensity as they age.
As they age they are more likely to explode.
If they have unstable electric surges they can explode from over heating.
Plus, you have to keep track of how many hours the bulb has been in operation and religiously change them out before they go bad.
The large bulb size along with the transformer makes them a bulky choice.


And then there is the oil on our hands issue. One isn't supposed to handle these bulbs without gloves.



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Post# 1186868 , Reply# 33   8/5/2023 at 00:15 (287 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Yes,have some of the Venture Pulse Start formed arc tube lamps in my collection.The ceramic arc tube lamps are better and more efficient.Plus even more stable.Other lamp makers have tried to duplicate the Venture design without success.Venture is going to LED now.Don't know if they still make the formed arc tube bulbs andd ballasts.

Post# 1186870 , Reply# 34   8/5/2023 at 02:27 (287 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
Agnotology

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Those old HPS and other bulbs that need a transformer are kind of scary.

 

Many of them get away with a simple reactor. No transformer needed.


The transformer makes noise so right there that's a big no for me.

 

Rarely audible when of quality make and installed correctly in the fixture. 

 

 


I have seen situations where the transformer literally leaked substance, probably some type of toxic oil.

 

That would be a potted ballast typical of fluorescent troffers. Ballasts in outdoor HID fixtures are almost always core and coil. Iron with a coil wrapped around it has nothing to leak.

 


And the bulbs are not stable. They will lose their intensity as they age.

 

HPS and LPS has some of the best lumen maintenance of any light source. Over driven LEDs have some of the worst lumen maintenance. 


As they age they are more likely to explode.

 

 

Only applies to type E quartz Metal Halide lamps. HID and LPS rarely if ever explode.

 

 


If they have unstable electric surges they can explode from over heating.

 

 

An 80 watt mercury vapor lamp can tolerate a 5,000 watt surge. The voltage to drive that level of current through an inductive ballast would long ago fry the electronics in a LED driver.

 





Plus, you have to keep track of how many hours the bulb has been in operation and religiously change them out before they go bad.

 

Much the opposite. HPS and LPS simply stop emitting light when their lumen output drops below 80%.

 

LED on the other hand tends to get dimmer and dimmer beyond their rated useful life.  

 

 

The large bulb size along with the transformer makes them a bulky choice.

 

Not really a concern until you get into high wattage LPS over 90 watts.


           And then there is the oil on our hands issue. One isn't supposed to handle these bulbs without gloves.

 

 

No such requirement exists for screw in HID lamps. 

 

 

Tell me you don't understand HID technology without telling me you don't understand HID technology.

 

Tell me you're citing LED agnotology without telling me you're citing LED agnotology.

 

Most everything you read online comparing LED to every other lighting technology is mendacious propaganda propped up by blatantly incorrect information.

 




This post was last edited 08/05/2023 at 05:37
Post# 1186874 , Reply# 35   8/5/2023 at 06:48 (287 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Most high wattage HPS,mercury,MH use actual transformers-the regulation is better and they are more efficient.Reactor ballasts are common for lamps running on 277 or 480V.Ballasts today are not oil filled-they are often potted in non flammable epoxy that is heat conductive.
Ceramic Metal Halides are another that can explode or rupture at EOL-but is extrremely rre-these also run off electronic square ballasts run at low frequency-120Hz.No flicker!I run CMH at home! Love their light-LED life can be unpredictable esp when the LED elements are driven hard to get quality light.This also can make their driver-ballasst run hot.


Post# 1186877 , Reply# 36   8/5/2023 at 07:41 (287 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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Reactor ballasts are common for lamps running on 277 or 480V.

 

 

Yup! But don't forget residential street lighting. 35-150 watt HPS lamps are typically 120 volt reactor driven.

 

 

I've always admired the size and cost difference between reactors and other types.

 

 

100 watt HPS Reactor ballast in Cobra:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/314692104305QUE...

 

 

vs

 

 

100 watt HPS Multi Tap CWA ballast in a Cobra:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/314678752464QUE...

 

 

 


Post# 1186881 , Reply# 37   8/5/2023 at 08:26 (287 days old) by Adam-aussie-vac (Canberra ACT)        

“And then there is the oil on our hands issue. One isn't supposed to handle these bulbs without gloves“

What you are thinking about is most “high temperature bulbs” Where there is not a protective glass around the glass that heats up] that you do have to make sure it is really clean as the oil can sometimes cause contamination on the glass and when that is heated I’ve heard that IT can actually crack it, It’s basically a super powered version of the normal bulb which gets much hotter, generally that style of bulb just gave me cash such as metal halide or halogen, generally large metal halide bulbs can be fine if they are the kind that has a white phosphorus coating, The one that looks like an egg with a screw on the top


Post# 1186893 , Reply# 38   8/5/2023 at 10:13 (287 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)        
It's no surprise

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Mercury Vapor bulbs are set to be eliminated per 2005 EPA rules change. I didn't know this but considering they use MERCURY, OMG!

And the transformers making noise- whether it's flourescent or these gased up bulbs, the noise is nearly always present. I mean it's been referenced in film numerous times.

One place I rented from had replaced all their street lights with LED bulbs that were clear, bright, came on instantly and made no noise....except for one lamp. I don't know why they missed that one but It flickered, the light was dull, and the noise it made. terrible.

My Dad had a 120' x 70' utility shed built years ago and given that he sold wholesale electric lighting, poles, and supplies to municipalities and contractors, he of course found it necessary to put in six of those heavy "industrial strength" type fixtures. When ever you'd turn the lights on in there it was accompanied by a slow start up to get full light and of course that hum noise.

Look at the size of that thing and that ballast. It needs to be hung hung with heavy chain because its heavy.


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Post# 1186894 , Reply# 39   8/5/2023 at 10:18 (287 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)        

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Compare to this. 1000 watt equiv. Instant start and no noise.

Could probably hang it with fishing line.


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Post# 1186896 , Reply# 40   8/5/2023 at 10:25 (287 days old) by JoeEkaitis (Rialto, California, USA)        

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But . . . but . . . Lava Lamps!  😢😢😢


Post# 1186919 , Reply# 41   8/5/2023 at 16:47 (287 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

Never cared for Sodium street lights, disliked the color quite a bit.  Mercury lights were a bit better, but still low on my list.  I preferred the good old standard Tungsten lights of years gone by but today I actually prefer the LEDs.

 

Funny, on the main road to my sub we have all three. Most are LED but for some reason they did not update 3 lights, 2 are still sodium and 1 mercury. Been meaning to call the utility and complain but have not yet.


Post# 1186957 , Reply# 42   8/5/2023 at 23:46 (286 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Lamps that have quartz bulbs should not be handled with bare hands-esp high wattage-high pressure xenon lamps used in motion picture projection.These were used in fil 35/70 mm film projectors and IMAX projectors-up to 14kw water cooled.If one of these bulbs blow-can be a real mess.Reflectors and mirrors and other lamphouse parets will have to be replaced.And handling the bare bulbs-you have to wear face protection and a heavy coat.Glass outer bulbs-not a problem.

Post# 1187041 , Reply# 43   8/7/2023 at 10:19 (285 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        
Play that link there for the vid’ while you read!

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These are my prize incandescent bulbs, and I even have that lamp they’re in plugged into a cord switch with a dimmer—my desert island bulbs if I were able to keep at least one lighting structure with them:



— Dave


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Post# 1187378 , Reply# 44   8/12/2023 at 00:33 (280 days old) by Good-Shepherd (New Jersey)        
Most everything you read online comparing LED

"to every other lighting technology is mendacious propaganda propped up by blatantly incorrect information".

And climate change and EV's and wind farms and "net zero"...


Post# 1188091 , Reply# 45   8/21/2023 at 11:05 (271 days old) by givemehotwater (US)        
Late Poster...

But I have to just honestly laugh, when I hear sheepish constituents say that any reduction in availability or restriction of a product is a good thing.

Regardless, Incandescent & Halogens have lots of uses that will be affected by the ill-formed change. One of the worst, is those with Private Wells in Cold Areas. For years, many of them used a simple light bulb to keep them from freezing.

That simple solution, will now be off the table - and replaced by a much more costly, and less-safe electric heating system.

One issue I personally have - is the LED Bulbs I have purchased, rather GE, Philips or Feit Electric - simply have not lasted. In many cases, I have had to replace them even faster than a normal bulb would have lasted. I've had to purchase way more expensive bulbs - negating the cost savings from electricity saved and low lifespan.

I also lost almost $150 -- negating a TON of "energy savings" when my garage door opener stopped working. The service call revealed the answer to that. Regular Incandescent or Halogen Bulbs only. Rough Service, preferred due to the vibration. LED Bulbs generate radio signals - which jam the remotes from working.

Lastly...


I have a two bulb lamp in my living room, with original GE Soft White Bulbs from 1996. They are still going to this day, even being left on for 3-4 hours a day. I refuse to change them, until they burn out. If I changed them with LED, I would probably already have gone through 2-3 sets in the last 5 years.


As someone who truly believes in Free Markets - I scuff at this nonsense. Americans will do what works best for them. They certainly do not need the governments hand to make their decision. Free Choice is the Ultimate Answer.


Post# 1188095 , Reply# 46   8/21/2023 at 12:05 (271 days old) by 48bencix (Sacramento CA)        
LED life

I kind of agree on the fairly short life of some LEDs. I put 4 glass LEDs in one of our bathroom fixtures, over the mirror, one of those with a U shaped glass shade in front. Only used less than probably one hour per day. I think they lasted 4 years and then one after the other they failed. I replaced them with more glass LEDs because those look better behind the glass. We have 100 watt equivalent LEDs in our living area for reading and those seem to last. Front porch lights have clear 60 watt equivalent bulbs on dusk to dawn control. Those lasted about 3 years. Replacements seem to be holding up. Couple of plastic LEDs in back of house fixtures switched on at night lasted about 5 years. I have CFLs in kitchen ceiling fixtures that have lasted about 30 years, only used occasionally.

Some remodeling fixtures do not have a replaceable bulb, I wonder how long those will last.

I just got a bulb for the back garage outside wall and it is a dawn to dusk bulb which seems to work. I had a bulb in a dawn to dusk control but it flickered wildly when going on. $10.

I do like the LEDs overall and know that they save energy. Some packages say how many hours they are supposed to last with 3 hours use per day, but with night time lighting that is more like 12 hours per day!


Post# 1188101 , Reply# 47   8/21/2023 at 13:00 (271 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Any reduction in availability is bad

That's a very politically charged argument you are bringing up there.

Only thing I say there is:
If you can cut you lighting energy usage by 90% any other way - sure go ahead.


Sadly, you can't trust everybody to do that by themselves.

And unfortunately, we are kind of past the point where it's just about a single persons lighting choice.



To make an even more charged argument:

That way of arguing sounds a lot like what most people say who want on the other hand restrict access to SO MANY OTHER THINGS...

But that's besides the point.





Anyway, yes, there are cheap, terrible LEDs.

I have so far replaced 1 single LED bulb in my or my mothers living space in the past... 15 years?
And that was a Philips Hue bulb that became irresponsive - during the warranty period.

No body asks anybody to replace working lighting systems - but the 5 situations where the inefficiency of halogen or incandescent is actually a positive thing does not stand in ANY relation to the savings.


Post# 1188113 , Reply# 48   8/21/2023 at 17:52 (271 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Halogen and incandescent lightbulbs

combo52's profile picture

Using an incandescent lightbulb to keep Plumbing from freezing, is a very poor use of electricity for many reasons, number one it doesn’t work very well electric heating tape would be far better that has a thermostat that would run only as needed in the amount needed putting the heat where it is needed.

 

I wouldn’t want to rely on a lightbulb to keep expensive plumbing from freezing. The bulb could burn out at any time, kind of reminds me of my neighbor, who used to keep her Volkswagen diesel engine warm by putting 100 W lightbulb on it and covering it with a blanket at night in the winter , one day she looked out of her house window and the car was in flames because she got the blanket a little too close to the bulb that was the end of the car.

 

If you have two lightbulbs that you’ve been running four hours a day since 1996 assuming they’re 60 W bulbs you’ve already spent over $1000 in electricity how much more do you want to spend to prove a point , lol

 

It’s wonderful that we live in a free country where we can do foolish things, if we like, we all have our foolish things that we do, including myself, but I do think it’s the job of the government to regulate energy usage a large majority of Americans approve of this, including myself, and I vote for this type of regulation.

 

John


Post# 1188115 , Reply# 49   8/21/2023 at 18:26 (271 days old) by givemehotwater (US)        
RE - Combo52

In regards to placing a blanket, on top of a light bulb. That has got to be the absolute worst idea I have ever heard in my life. Comparing Apples to Oranges, in that particular scenario is just silly. The same thing would happen if someone placed a blanket over a space heater, or used an extension cord for a high-voltage appliance.

Many of us have the basic common sense to know, that something getting warm (like a fabric) is a horrible thing, and to stop it before it becomes a issue.

In regards to the Heat Tape, I actually know someone who was extremely worried about the Fire Risk that came along with that and recommended the Light Bulb instead. The thing is... using a Light Bulb to prevent a well from freezing, is a time-proven strategy that has been used for decades.

Maybe it's a tad inefficient, but it's not like you are using it year-round. And it's proven. A Google Search returns tons and tons of results on this strategy. Plus, most people would realize if a Bulb went out. So there's that.

As for me... I will stick with my Soft White Light Bulbs, which use "excessive" electricity. I honestly do not care. According to my calculations, the cost to me is about $17 and 9 cents.

$17.09... in the grand scheme of things, is not really meaningful. I thoroughly enjoy the light I receive and I like that it goes on and on. Senseabilty & Worth are irrelevant things - to different people.

As for the Government. I stand by my statement. We need less government in our lives, not more... especially this administration. We do not need government overreach in Light Bulbs, Washing Machines, Gas Ovens, or vehicles.

If I want to pay more overtime for electricity because I enjoy the Light. That's my prerogative. The free market society we live in dictates the winners and losers. Obviously, most people have moved on.

Lastly, I want to correct your statement. The Majority of this Country DOES NOT support this crap. Most of the country didn't vote for this Administration, and his approval ratings are underwater - with less than 42% of the Country. To say otherwise is just foolish and wishful thinking.



Post# 1188117 , Reply# 50   8/21/2023 at 18:36 (271 days old) by givemehotwater (US)        
Continued

Left out the most important part of my statement. $17.09 is the yearly cost, based on current rates. Or $1.42 a month or 4 cents a day.

Without the Notation - The Numbers are Irrelevant.


Post# 1188119 , Reply# 51   8/21/2023 at 19:13 (271 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        

combo52's profile picture

Or $629.00 dollars since 1996.

 

Biden won by over 8 MILLION Votes

 

John


Post# 1188122 , Reply# 52   8/21/2023 at 20:07 (270 days old) by givemehotwater (US)        
Unfortunately...

You are once again, incorrect. In more ways than one.

For one thing, in 1996, the price per KWH was significantly lower than it is now. The cost was almost 1/3rd, and in the early 00's it was almost 1/2 the cost. So... your figures are incorrect.

Beyond that... there was not even widespread availability of other bulb replacements, in 1996. From my memory, which is still pretty good, around 1998, General Electric launched some Energy Saving CFL Bulbs. Those were the first CFLs for home use, that I remember. Philips launched a competing product, the following year.

Those Bulbs averaged almost $30-40 and would have barely fit at that in the shade. The other issue is... the cost of such bulbs made literally no economic sense at the time, nor would have if I had purchased them. There's also the fact, that they produced a ghastly, horrible hue of light. Nothing like the traditional Soft White or GE Reveal (Warm) I am used to.

It was not until 2008, in the middle of Housing Armageddon that the cost significantly dropped for Compact Fluorescents, making them sensible on a cost basis for consumers. Most of this was paid for by Power Providers & Government Grants. So... it was indirectly paid for by Consumers.

It was at that time, I purchased a large amount of CFLs to try out. With varying success.

Today, most of my home is run on LED. Just my garage door opener, a kitchen fixture, and a living room lamp run on traditional Incandescent or Halogen. There is nothing wrong with that.

As for your political sentiment. I will say this. I am an Independent. I am not registered with either party.

Having said that... those who observe the events of the past three years and assert that everything is going splendidly are unmistakably disconnected from reality. The polling data serves as a genuine reflection of the prevailing national sentiment for a reason. If you prefer, you are welcome to persist in embracing a grand illusion, but the truth remains unchanged.






Post# 1188133 , Reply# 53   8/21/2023 at 21:14 (270 days old) by jil1000 (Northern CA )        
👀

jil1000's profile picture
I don’t really enjoy the light from LEDs… I have hoarded more light bulbs in the past few months than I care to admit.

@DaveAM… that was funny.. Love it!!! I have some incandescent bulbs you may have if yours go out.


Post# 1188160 , Reply# 54   8/22/2023 at 06:07 (270 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
Well there are a lot of points to consider when the heat from regular incandescent bulbs can be helpful although also a burning and even fire hazard…

What good then are LED bulbs without warmth if it can emit any safely where needed as in ice/snow-covered traffic lights and the lights on your car?

And most importantly bulbs that grow dimmer with further use which I’d certainly never noticed but live a short life as I’d seemingly replaced quite many of really both kinds…

And one of my outdoor light fixtures has an LED bulb in it with a day/night sensor that somehow keeps blinking… First that bulb was by my front door and eventually stayed on steady but I moved it by my side door and it won’t stop flashing…

Wish though nothing on politics or government had to be involved or it be mandated or enforced by!

And yes I associate that hot-spot glow somehow with an old song, that might have been playing while looking at old lamps which had those kinds of standard bulbs…



— Dave


Post# 1189144 , Reply# 55   9/2/2023 at 01:35 (259 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
Do you know what happened to this bulb?

The lamp it was in tipped onto the base of a swivel desk chair you’ll see…

I came home from work and smelled something burning or burnt, and seemingly just lifting that lamp off of the chair base wasn’t enough…

The residue from all that plastic which attached itself to the hot light bulb emits some mean, hazy smoke from there into the air…



— Dave


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Post# 1189147 , Reply# 56   9/2/2023 at 06:13 (259 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Time to throw out the incandescent lightbulbs

combo52's profile picture
You’re lucky you didn’t have a fire. This is one of the many reasons I have got rid of every incandescent lightbulb possible in my house and they go right in the trashcan.

It’s amazing how foolish people can be thinking they’re saving money by keeping old lightbulbs that use 10 times as much electricity.

Glad you and your home are OK

John


Post# 1189178 , Reply# 57   9/2/2023 at 16:38 (259 days old) by Good-Shepherd (New Jersey)        
I have hoarded more light bulbs

I just loaded up on some more three-way incandescents at an estate sale last week.

Hate LED bulbs, even the best of them have a sick color temperature.

Outdoors light pollution is increasing problem now, people have their properties lit up like a night game at Yankee stadium every night, all night.



Post# 1189197 , Reply# 58   9/2/2023 at 23:38 (258 days old) by fan-of-fans (Florida)        

I’m really growing to like LED bulbs, especially the newer glass type with filament style LED. They look and light so much like incandescents that I can’t really tell the difference.

Longevity wise I have yet to see, I doubt the claims that they will last over 10 years or whatever are accurate, but I have not had any issues yet.

I do find some of these bulbs seem to not quite be optimized and can run quite hot. I’d like to see that improved, as well as pricing.

Have also tried the LED 3 way bulbs from Ecosmart, like them too. Would like to see a glass filament version of these as well.

I find the LED lighting color fine to my eyes if using the warm white temperature.

I think often when people think LED color, they are thinking of the daylight color which seems to be the most often used in streetlights and car headlights. I cannot stand that color indoors, it is awful, sterile, lifeless. I don’t buy those daylight color LED bulbs, but the warm white and soft white seem fine, indiscernible in one that I replaced a burned out incandescent with just recently even.

Did you know LED mogul based 3 way bulbs are now coming out for vintage floor lamps? Starting to see those too, haven’t gotten any yet, a bit pricey.

I am not sure that incandescent bulbs are gone yet, still see the 15 W GE ones in the store along with 250 W 3 way ones. I don’t understand why stores stopped selling 50/100/150 W and 30/70/100 W 3 way incandescents and started to stock 100/150/250 W instead.


Post# 1189199 , Reply# 59   9/3/2023 at 01:55 (258 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
Do you know what kind of light bulb this is?

This is a Rough-Service Incandescent Bulb:

If only more bulbs could be made this way without delicate filaments..

Otherwise that’s why LED’s have taken over the field!



— Dave


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Post# 1189200 , Reply# 60   9/3/2023 at 02:04 (258 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
Did you know I attempted to buy a desk lamp with a regular incandescent bulb at Walmart and it wasn’t allowed to be sold?

The register would not be product to be sold, like when I worked there at the checkouts and a product was in a recall and this was a number of years ago so I had to settle for buying this LED-illuminated one instead:

At first those diodes were acting erratic barely lighting or flickering before dependably remaining on realizably and steady!

A shame incandescent bulb-equipped lamps right then were on their way to be outlawed or not allowed to be sold but that one was somehow on the sales floor and apparently there to confiscate in lieu of sell had I gotten there at the right time…



— Dave


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Post# 1189212 , Reply# 61   9/3/2023 at 12:58 (258 days old) by JustJunque (Western MA)        

justjunque's profile picture
I would have no real objection to using LED bulbs. But, every one I've ever tried has bothered my eyes/head because of the strobe effect.
I'm apparently very sensitive to it.
I just wish I had hoarded more incandescents while I had the chance.


Post# 1189255 , Reply# 62   9/4/2023 at 08:26 (257 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
september

Here we are in September and it has happened.

Post# 1189352 , Reply# 63   9/5/2023 at 02:52 (256 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
Hanging here twelve years, come home from work to see this lit full blast with no one sitting under it, and not yet one original INCANDESCENT bulb, not even the flood lamp underneath burnt out!



— Dave


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Post# 1189354 , Reply# 64   9/5/2023 at 06:22 (256 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
12 years of of electric heat

combo52's profile picture

Candelabra bulbs like those are so inefficient they probably will burn NOT out in your lifetime.

 

They are really only good at putting off heat.

 

They do happen to put off a little bit of light less than 10% efficient.

 

I hope you’re enjoying the heat this time of year and enjoying paying for the air conditioning to remove it from your home,

 

John




This post was last edited 09/05/2023 at 10:40
Post# 1189459 , Reply# 65   9/6/2023 at 15:32 (255 days old) by JustJunque (Western MA)        

justjunque's profile picture
That looks very much like the fixture above our kitchen table.
In twelve years of living here, we may have replaced one bulb. Maybe.
And, I don't know how long the previous owners had the fixture/bulbs.

"Candelabra bulbs like those are so inefficient they probably will burn NOT out in your lifetime."

I'll take that kind of inefficiency! 😉


Post# 1189500 , Reply# 66   9/6/2023 at 21:55 (254 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

Those old incandescent candelabra bulbs also work as a space heater, I think they  give off more heat than light.  My dining room chandelier had 15 60W bulbs, as does my foyer. Cranked out a lot of heat, add in 10-15 people and it could get quite warm in there.. Was running 900 watts each, now running 105watts each -no longer cringe turning them on. Fun thing is they were both on the same circuit along with a number of other lights.  I split those circuits up long ago.


Post# 1189505 , Reply# 67   9/6/2023 at 23:04 (254 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
Mom works on jigsaw puzzles on her dining room table.  Incandescent candelabra bulbs in the fixture there generated a noticeable amount of heat.  I changed them to LED a few years ago.


Post# 1189515 , Reply# 68   9/7/2023 at 01:57 (254 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
“Lights make heat…” are a quote I remember my mom constantly say, yet without nearly every light in the house being incandescent and my bedroom being the only ceiling fixture equipped with a dimmer switch I’d most likely wanted and maybe even installed myself, we’d all be in the dark!



— Dave


Post# 1189562 , Reply# 69   9/7/2023 at 19:28 (253 days old) by givemehotwater (US)        
RE- Leds with Filament

I have seen these in everyone's kitchens, and I think they are absolutely hideous. They do not look ANYTHING like the old filaments found in clear bulbs. Even beyond that, they simply do not dim. When I dim an incandescent or halogen light, you get the most beautiful hue - perfect for evening light. It also complements my skin tone well.

Furthermore, people should be able to do whatever they want. I personally prefer my older top-load washing machine, which I purchased in 2004. It uses lots of water and cleans great in a short amount of time. Prior to that, I had Duet's which I loved but sold with my former home.

I am sure there are many people out there who would love to rip away my machine and replace it with some crappy front loader. I am also sure there are others who would love to outright ban the usage of older machines.

Should I be ostracized for not using a low-water level machine that's currently being manufactured? As I said, people should be able to do whatever they want. Government is NEVER the answer.

@Dave, I think it's wonderful that your bulbs are still going all this time later. I found out the lights in my closet (from 2004) are still the original bulbs. The secret is that they are 130V bulbs on a 120V circuit.

Can you even find an LED bulb that will actually stay on for 19 years?


Post# 1189567 , Reply# 70   9/7/2023 at 20:56 (253 days old) by Good-Shepherd (New Jersey)        
Leds with Filament and I think they are absolutely hideous.

Yup.

Usually in light fixtures that look like upside down used mason jars.

Eeww..



Post# 1189569 , Reply# 71   9/7/2023 at 22:26 (253 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

I'm quite impressed with the newish dim to warm LED bulbs.  They mimic a typical bulb's warm tones when dimmed. The candelabra bulbs I put in my dining room and foyer a few years ago do not do that, they dim but get a bit duller looking. I don't find them objectionable but would prefer the newer style but they are  bit pricey.


Post# 1189822 , Reply# 72   9/11/2023 at 19:30 (249 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Beautiful warm light from LEDs

combo52's profile picture
Reply number 71, right you are Matt I replaced the incandescent 60 W bulbs in my dining room lamp fixture, I always figured this would be the last place I would ever put LED bulbs however, the new bulbs are far better than the incandescent bulbs, and use a 10th of the electricity.

I feel very sorry for people who want to stick their head in the sand. It won’t adjust to technology when it’s clearly superior, especially when these people are far younger than I am.


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Post# 1190095 , Reply# 73   9/16/2023 at 11:02 (245 days old) by DaveTranter (Central England)        
A few cents' worth from the other side of the 'pond&

Greetings, all.... Long time, no posts... :-O

Low pressure Sodium lamps were pretty much universal here in the UK for road/highway use up until about the mid '80s (IIRC)... They were then gradually replaced by high pressure Sodium (more output according to a light meter, I suppose, and slightly better colour rendering, but optically worse, especially in fog) until recent years, when LED lighting is becoming commonplace. My own biggest objection to the new 'white' LED street lighting is that, when approaching a junction, it is almost impossible to tell at a glance whether the light pool on the road surface is from the street lighting, or from an approaching car.

I used a few CFL type lamps at home, very few of which had a service life approaching anywhere near the 'officially forecast' expectancy, which was a disappointment. Incidentally, all the ones I installed were 'subsidised'... The 'market' price being prohibitive against the savings in running costs.

I have now installed and used several LED lamps at home. As with CFL types, their life seems to be limited by the number of switching cycles they are subjected to. The longest lasting one (so far!) is in a timer light which runs 3-8 hrs per evening (depending on season), and has lasted 10 years in daily use.
I can't say that I have noticed any loss of output over the years, and none of my indoor lamps produce any noticeable strobe effect (unlike many 'high efficiency' outdoor fittings, which produce a seriously irritating effect).

For anyone interested..... In my (limited) experience, the actual LED chips don't fail.. It is always the 'ballast', so 'dead' LED domestic lamps can provide a good light source for various low-voltage 'projects', if you are willing to dismantle and re-use .. ;-)

I think that's probably enough from me!!

All best

Dave T


Post# 1190374 , Reply# 74   9/21/2023 at 01:48 (240 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
Did someone say THREE-WAY bulb? An old standby or THE old standby, what the radio is to television when TV had been invented but there were still radio shows…


— Dave


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Post# 1190375 , Reply# 75   9/21/2023 at 01:50 (240 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
LED’s the strobe effect, the stark white light, the buzzing, the baffles, just to get a pair for my laundry room rated at what gives off 100 watts of incandescence at almost the bargain store incandescent lamp price!


— Dave


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Post# 1190376 , Reply# 76   9/21/2023 at 01:56 (240 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
What kind of a light bulb is this inside my Paul McCartney album?

Could this be the inspiration for the LED design?


— Dave


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Post# 1190377 , Reply# 77   9/21/2023 at 01:58 (240 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
And finally, the oldest standard incandescent we must not turn on very often as the front hall light at my dad’s hadn’t had to be changed in years!


— Dave


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Post# 1190408 , Reply# 78   9/21/2023 at 14:36 (240 days old) by Good-Shepherd (New Jersey)        
Did someone say THREE-WAY bulb?

Nice table lamp.

Looks like a vintage Stiffle, the heavy brass type that can be used as weapons against intruders.

I bought a couple of those at the estate sale where I loaded up on the three-way incandescents.


Post# 1190434 , Reply# 79   9/21/2023 at 22:12 (239 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
I have a 3-way (non-daylight) LED in a bedside lamp.


Post# 1190487 , Reply# 80   9/23/2023 at 04:57 (238 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
Stifle Lano: yes I’m sure a number of us grew up with those in that enormous size in our childhood homes which I believe held three way bulbs and our introduction to and again, I put my own dimmer switch in my bedroom lamp which got replaced with a regular toggle switch when that room among others got a light with a ceiling fan and don’t recall any other dimmers elsewhere just ne needing and fascinated with such…

Had no idea a stifling lamp could be used as a battering ram in self defense and notice how the harp is a little bent as I don’t know how it got that way, the lamp was from the late-in-jaws and nothrr-in-law once threatened to take it back when she saw it that floor of that basement not using because we had another table lamp in the living room which is still there…

Incidentally that three way bulb has also been reduced to only one setting still working…



— Dave


Post# 1190740 , Reply# 81   9/27/2023 at 09:20 (234 days old) by DaveTranter (Central England)        
Reply #76

That looks like a so-called 'mushroom' incandescent lamp. There is a series of PAR reflector lamps which use the same (or very similar) envelope shape.

All best

Dave T


Post# 1195805 , Reply# 82   12/21/2023 at 21:42 by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
Yes those are LED’s up there, and I’m determined to get every bit of light out of the burned out one all I can while it still lights up every time I turn the fixture it’s in, OFF!!!!



-/ Dave


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Post# 1195820 , Reply# 83   12/22/2023 at 04:09 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

So, there is actually a pretty interesting reason for those LEDs that still light faintly when off.

Depending on what kind of power supply is used in it, there is a small chance a tiny amount of current could leak through it, even if it isn't the full supply voltage.
Most higher quality bulbs have components specifically used to prevent this - but cheaper once often don't.

Now, depending on installation, cables running close together in a bunch can induce small amounts of current into each other.
Normally, that amount of voltage and current is so low that no other lighting technology can do anything with it.
However, because LEDs are THAT efficient, supplying even a few volts and milli amps can cause a faint glow.



I was installing a light fixture in my last flat up north that still had much of the early 50s wiring.
Had my multimeter out and checked that there was no voltage before commencing installation.
Always measured 6 volts, unless I turned all the breakers to the kitchen off. Couldn't measure any current as it would just collapse as soon as I tried to measure it.
Sure enough, the bulbs in there sometimes glowed ever so slightly.
Looks really quite spooky IRL.

I think due to the EUs higher voltage that issue is somewhat more common.


Post# 1195848 , Reply# 84   12/22/2023 at 15:10 by me (Essex, UK)        

Never had the problem with LEDS, but we had a CFL lamp in the landing light at the top of the stair for some time that would flash on every couple of seconds, or so for a while after it was turned off until the lamp cooled.

The reason for that is our lighting circuits are looped in at the ceiling rose, with a live and switched live wire running in the cable going to the light switches, which act as the two plates of a capacitor, allowing a small amount of AC current to flow when the switch is off, and the cable for the two-way switch circuit is particularly long, so allows more current.


Post# 1198412 , Reply# 85   2/1/2024 at 19:36 by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
Uh, oh! It finally happened… Yes guess what?

That flood spotlight under my chandelier burned out… I swore it turned on with the rest of the light when I turned it on, then it looked dark under there so it looks like I didn’t see it actually burn out…

Might just put a regular light bulb in its place!



— Dave


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Post# 1198414 , Reply# 86   2/1/2024 at 19:59 by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

I have 4 down lights in one room on an older Smart dimmer.  They are a mix of brands and one of them will glow slightly when off.

 

In my kitchen I have 2 recessed Low voltage mini spots aimed at my cooktop.  These are quite old, on a Smart dimmer too, and they glowed quite brightly when off. Only option was to wire in a C7 christmas light into the circuit, then they would go out.  problem is with the smart dimmers  not being a good match to the LEDs in use.


Post# 1199355 , Reply# 87   2/15/2024 at 12:52 by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
Well I decided to replace that burned out flood light with an ordinary clear incandescent bulb:

It works fairly well…


— Dave


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Post# 1200468 , Reply# 88   2/29/2024 at 04:22 by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

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Well that clear bulb I think made the switch on that light feel hot, so an LED in there is its replacement until I ever find another suitable flood for that light…



— Dave


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Post# 1200483 , Reply# 89   2/29/2024 at 07:40 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
New LED lightbulb

combo52's profile picture
Yay Dave, there may be hope for the planet yet.

John


Post# 1200713 , Reply# 90   3/4/2024 at 08:37 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
I found another box of incandescent lightbulbs

combo52's profile picture
At the warehouse wall doing some cleaning and rearranging.

I’ve already thrown away hundreds of incandescent lightbulbs but these got tossed as well.

I think the government should offer a bounty of $.50 apiece for people to turn in this junk.


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Post# 1200737 , Reply# 91   3/4/2024 at 13:14 by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

Yup, I've tossed dozens, but no where near hundreds.  Kind of hurt, a lot where specialty bulbs, but the cost of use outweighed  the cost to replace as electric rates went up..


Post# 1200740 , Reply# 92   3/4/2024 at 13:33 by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine)        

wayupnorth's profile picture
I just installed a new LED 20 watt kithen ceiling fixture yesterday that replaced a '60s fluorescent fixture. Wow, that LED gives off way more light than the old one. Since both fluorescent and incandescent bulbs are now outlawed we now have no choice but more expensive LED's.

Post# 1200765 , Reply# 93   3/4/2024 at 18:26 by Good-Shepherd (New Jersey)        
LED gives off way more light than the old one.

One the things I hate about LED's, obnoxiously brighter than necessary unless you're performing surgery on the kitchen counter.

Post# 1200792 , Reply# 94   3/4/2024 at 23:31 by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Sometimes with the LED lamps-the DRIVER-ballast fails before the LED panels-and with smoke,sparks and BANG!!!ncandescent lamps didn't have that problem.They just go FLICKER and go out.I have some from yard sales and still use them.Pointless to throw out lamps that still work.Use them up then toss.

Post# 1200813 , Reply# 95   3/5/2024 at 06:00 by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
There is someone like me who would love those incandescent bulbs you're choosing to garbage up into metal and broken glass--I would have taken those off your hands!

COMBO52: That looks exactly like my collection of some I have yet to use, seldom anything I have to light up with still ever burns out...



-- Dave


Post# 1200871 , Reply# 96   3/5/2024 at 15:42 by GusHerb (Chicago/NWI)        

I've been slowly converting fixtures to LED at home for 10 years now. I was in no rush because I want to maintain the same light quality as the prior incandescent/halogen bulbs, plus dimmers need to be changed out to LED compatible ones.

My bathroom vanity light was the latest conversion. I was previously using 6 40 watt G25 bulbs on a motion sensor which draws to the tune of 240 watts. It was enough to make the bathroom a degree or two warmer when it was on (which was a nice feature during the cold months).
I replaced them with 6 40 watt equivalent Sylvania TruWave G25 soft white bulbs which use 4.5 watts a piece so a total of 27 watts. I put them in and holy cow my bathroom was lit like the surface of the sun and I could see every pore in my face. So to counter what I would save in electricity expense, I spent $40 on a Lutron motion sensor/dimmer combo and programmed it to come on at about the same brightness as the old incandescent bulbs.

The new bulbs look great though, the color temperature is a little bit colder than the old incandescent bulbs but still a soft white, nobody would ever know the difference besides me. The dimmer ramps up and down instead of just on/off which is a nice touch.



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