Thread Number: 94029  /  Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
Early Inglis Belt Drive Set
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Post# 1187068   8/7/2023 at 17:30 (343 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        

Hi Everyone,

Thought I would share a recent find - a 1960 Inglis Royal W&D. Some might recall way back when I did a rebuild on a 66 Inglis and so almost 10 years later I guess I'll be at it again. These machines are much earlier than I've ever worked on before so these will prove interesting I'm sure!

Here they are as I found them - the dryer is gas - not my preference so I'll be on the lookout for an old style electric dryer that I can harvest the parts from to make the conversion. If anyone is interested in trading electric parts for gas parts or has electric parts they are willing to sell let me know!


CLICK HERE TO GO TO 114jwh's LINK


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Post# 1187069 , Reply# 1   8/7/2023 at 17:39 (343 days old) by Repairguy (Danbury, Texas)        

repairguy's profile picture
Congrats! That is definitely a nice set.

Post# 1187070 , Reply# 2   8/7/2023 at 17:47 (343 days old) by bigalsf (Salt Lake City)        
Congratulations!

Wow, nice set! That is, I think, the Canadian equivalent to the 1960 Whirlpool Imperial Mark 12 series.

I love the styling on the set; I especially like the simplicity of the timer push-button arrangement.

Enjoy!!


Post# 1187072 , Reply# 3   8/7/2023 at 17:52 (343 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        

Here is some pictures after an initial wipe down. Unfortunately the dryer is missing the cycle knob and the washer is missing the unique water level knob

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Post# 1187074 , Reply# 4   8/7/2023 at 18:05 (343 days old) by Repairguy (Danbury, Texas)        

repairguy's profile picture
They cleaned up nicely.

Post# 1187076 , Reply# 5   8/7/2023 at 18:09 (343 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        

Starting to take apart to see how everything looks. Have never seen this plastic diverter over the drain before. Given their age the outer tub looks great so far and the centerpost looks salvageable

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Post# 1187079 , Reply# 6   8/7/2023 at 18:15 (343 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        

Some of the internals. Looks like an early wig wag, the original water valve and since this is from 1960 this would have the older style transmission vs the later heavy duty one and 1/3 HP motor vs the later 1/2 HP

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Post# 1187080 , Reply# 7   8/7/2023 at 18:22 (343 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        

The fabric softener and bleach dispensers have caused issues for this machine. They were completely full of old softener residue. I'm guessing it was plugged up for a long time and someone kept using it and it would spill over the side. You can't see it in the picture well but there was blue residue all over the that side and significant rust has developed. What a mess!

Thats all for now, the outer tub of course is stuck so thats what I'll be working on next!


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Post# 1187083 , Reply# 8   8/7/2023 at 18:45 (343 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

Nice.† Close-ups of the contols, please!

Notice, no transmission braces.

ETA: Oops, there are a couple larger pics of the controls.† (Interesting that the Full Size view is *much* larger than typical.† Ahh, they're .gif images, not .jpg.† The automatic image resizing apparently doesn't affect .gifs?)


Post# 1187088 , Reply# 9   8/7/2023 at 19:06 (343 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        

maytag85's profile picture
My goodness, those are beautiful machines! I actually had a similar issue with the dispensers on mine since they gummed up. Thatís what led me to taking the entire machine apart and while I was at it, decided to repair and rebuild things while I was at it. Be sure to hold the outer tub up to the light to see if thereís any pinholes in the tub and if there is, Iíd have them welded so thereís no leaks.

The older style of wig wag has a unique sound, some people would replace it with a newer style to quiet it down a little, but these machines just arenít the same without the unique wig wag sounds they make in operation.


Post# 1187101 , Reply# 10   8/7/2023 at 21:43 (342 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)        

bradfordwhite's profile picture
Have you figured out how to get the sudsaver to work?
Are you going to keep the sud valve?

I've had a couple of Whirlpool made washers with those double dispensers and they were always a mess like that. They really should have had a small stream of water running when they were open to rinse the cavity clean. Back then though we didn't have multiport inlet valves.

Should be easy enough to convert the dryer to electric. Just need a heater and a 120 volt double pole relay to turn the heat on and off with the old gas ignitor line.


Post# 1187107 , Reply# 11   8/8/2023 at 00:39 (342 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        
Reply #10

maytag85's profile picture
I usually would fill up both the dispensers on my Whirlpool to help keep them cleaned, havenít had an issue in the 2 years Iíve been doing that.

Post# 1187114 , Reply# 12   8/8/2023 at 07:35 (342 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan and Palm Springs, CA)        

jamiel's profile picture
Interesting that they did not creata a localized label (spelt "Color" rather than "Colour") even as they did the panel.

Post# 1187117 , Reply# 13   8/8/2023 at 08:45 (342 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
Inglis!

peteski50's profile picture
This is a beautiful set Good Luck with them!


Post# 1187158 , Reply# 14   8/8/2023 at 18:44 (342 days old) by Pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
very nice set

pierreandreply4's profile picture
in the term of inglis here a pic i found via google i think there 66 but not certain

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Post# 1187162 , Reply# 15   8/8/2023 at 21:15 (341 days old) by washerlover (The Big Island, Hawaiíi)        

washerlover's profile picture
Absolutely gorgeous set! Is that a germicidal lamp I see in the washer?

Post# 1187181 , Reply# 16   8/9/2023 at 09:35 (341 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
1960 top of the line, Ingliss, washer and dryer

combo52's profile picture
Wow, James, thatís quite a score, these should restore very nicely.

I probably have any parts you might need for the restoration if you canít find them otherwise.

Fabric softener, and bleach dispenser on these machines was very easy to maintain but nobody ever did it, I had a lady Kenmore as my daily driver for over 30 years and Iíve never had problems with the dispensers clogging but every time I use the washer I would put a cup of hot water in each dispenser to keep them flushed out and clean.

When I poured fabric softener. I would chase it with a cup of hot water . For example, when I rebuilt the machine last year the dispensers were almost totally clean install them good functional shape.

That little baffle in the drain opening in the outer tub was to help water that was being spun out of clothing go down the drain whirlpool used that for many years in the mid to late 50s and early 60s.

John


Post# 1187233 , Reply# 17   8/9/2023 at 23:43 (340 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        

Thank you everyone for all the kind words!

To answer a few questions, yes Todd this machine (actually both the washer and dryer) has a germicidal lamp and a tub light. The bulbs even somehow still work!

As to the suds saver - its there, one of the ports has partially corroded off and the diaphragm is shot so I likely won't be connecting it back up - there isn't a laundry sink where these will be located anyway.

Jamie good observation - I hadn't even noticed the spelling but you are right, Inglis must have been sourcing the control panel from Whirlpool back then. Later machines had often had different panels vs US machines.

Glen - yes no transmission braces. This older cabinet has additional stabilizers that I think (?) were there to perhaps compensate for this. I haven't seen much discussion on the performance/stability of the older machines before braces were introduced - did it make a significant difference or did these stabilizers make up for it? There doesn't seem to be an easy way to add them since the baseplate doesn't have the welded bolts the braces screw into.

Pierre nice of you to share that picture - I believe these would be 67's or 68's

John, interesting about the baffle - I'd never seen one. Did it actually make a difference in minimizing leftover water? And thank you so much for the offer with parts - I'll likely be in touch. Parts are much harder to come by since I restored the last one 10 years ago.




This post was last edited 08/10/2023 at 00:21
Post# 1187234 , Reply# 18   8/10/2023 at 00:02 (340 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        

Here is some more progress. I was able to get the outer tub out and I was surprised at the condition once I cleaned it up. Very little rust at all. I'm not sure if the porcelain on older machines was more durable or if that baffle really makes a difference getting rid of residual water (or maybe both)? Baseplate looks good too and I'm hoping that existing tub drain holds up.

The basket drive doesn't seem bad either although I will be using a more recent one with a good spin tube. I don't remember seeing that oil wick (?) on other basket drives.

I was able to get that dispenser cleaned out but it was a lot of work. However I tested it and both solenoids still work and it doesn't leak!


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Post# 1187240 , Reply# 19   8/10/2023 at 00:19 (340 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        

Now I know this is a long shot but if anyone has either of these knobs kicking around they would sell, please please please let me know. I'm missing the dryer knob and the water level knob. I've attached a picture of the washer knob for comparison and a snip from an ad with the water level knob - both accept a standard D stem. Even something close would be helpful. Thanks so much in advance!

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Post# 1187265 , Reply# 20   8/10/2023 at 11:49 (340 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        
Reply #16

maytag85's profile picture
Dumb question John, is it even possible to use the burner assembly in my Ď63 Whirlpool Imperial dryer or not? Thought and toyed around with the idea of acquiring the parts I need in case if I ever want to convert it to gas if itís even possible.

Post# 1187452 , Reply# 21   8/12/2023 at 18:09 (338 days old) by Pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
114jwh

pierreandreply4's profile picture
What kind of agitator is in your inglis royal washer and have you seen inglis washers with this agitator inside the washer? as a kid i have seen one in my grandmother 3 cycle push to start inglis liberator with 5 wash rinse temp no water level and brush lint filter

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Post# 1191555 , Reply# 22   10/8/2023 at 13:10 (281 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        
Update

Sorry for the long time between posts. I've been working hard at getting the washer back to a respectable condition and I'm getting close the finish line. I've run into two (hopefully) small snags and hoping someone can help me out with some insight.

I extracted the old bearings & seals using a old piece of pipe and a hammer and pressed new bearings in using the tool. I used the WP bearing kit 285134. These newer notched bearings seem to be much easier to press in vs the smooth ones I used last time. I'm guessing that this coupled with the fact that the notches create wells for more turbine oil was the reason for the change.

The bearings went in without a hitch however when all was said and done I found this spring on the floor - I believe it was in one of the oil seals that sits below one of the bearings - not sure how it popped out. I don't think there is any way to get it back on - is this spring pertinent and therefore do I need to replace the seal now? I looked at the other bearing kit I have on hand which contained the older smooth bearings and the accompanying seals don't have this spring so I'm hoping its not overly important.

The newer bearing kit came with detailed instructions and it indicated to use turbine oil in the lower bearing. The service manuals I have from WP indicate grease - is the difference in direction due to the change from smooth to notched bearings? Or maybe I've misread somewhere along the way?

Finally, I did put the transmission in to test the timer functions - good news is all seems to be working properly. However, the transmission I used from a newer donor machine seems to be turning the agitator shaft a bit when its in neutral. I had opened it up before installing and the agitator spring is intact and seemed to be in good shape but I'm guessing its weak and I need to replace it?

Any hint or suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks so much in advance!

I'll be sure to post some more photos of the process and final product soon for those that are interested!


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Post# 1191556 , Reply# 23   10/8/2023 at 13:45 (281 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        
Reply #22

maytag85's profile picture
I wouldnít really worry about the agitator movement when in neutral. Sometimes it just drags on the oil thatís inside the transmission from the agitate gear and parts that are constantly moving whenever the motor is running. My Whirlpool did the same thing when I brought it home back in 2020, even the transmission I rebuilt does the same thing from time to time. Thatís just how some of the older belt drive machines are.

Post# 1191566 , Reply# 24   10/8/2023 at 17:51 (281 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

Centerpost seals should all be replaced-new with the bearings, yes?


Post# 1191580 , Reply# 25   10/8/2023 at 23:28 (280 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        

Hi Glenn - yes, to clarify, I replaced the seals and bearings, they all come together in the kit. After I had replaced the oil seals/bearings, I noticed that spring on the floor in the picture. I'm quite certain it came out of one of the two oil seals, likely the top one. I have no idea how that happened - I'm hoping this doesn't mean I have to pull the newly installed seals/bearings and put new ones in again. If anyone has any insight on the function/necessity of this spring I'd be really grateful. Thanks so much

Post# 1191585 , Reply# 26   10/9/2023 at 07:52 (280 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Spring in bearing and seal kit

combo52's profile picture
That type of small spring is a common part of oil and water seals. However, I have never seen that type of spring used on a belt drive whirlpool product, my best guess is that the company that assembled the kit got that spring in there by accident but I do not think itís part of a seal kit for a belt drive whirlpool washer.

Was the kit you got a genuine whirlpool kit or an aftermarket kit made by seal bearing manufacturer?

John


Post# 1191590 , Reply# 27   10/9/2023 at 10:01 (280 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        

Hi John - thanks for your input. It was a genuine FSP bearing and seal kit 285134. The bearings were the newer style with the channels on the outside. I just bought it at a local parts place so not NOS or anything like that. When I was handling the oil seals before installation it did feel like there was a spring in the inner groove and that's why when I saw that spring on the floor I immediately assumed it had popped out of one of the oil seals.

I found it strange since I have another kit that is older with the smooth bearings and the oil seals in that kit definitely don't have a spring.

Is it possible WP revised the oil seals more recently and newer ones include a spring?

If you've never seen one on a BD oil seal, I'm thinking I can just leave the seal as is and not worry about it?



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This post was last edited 10/09/2023 at 10:23
Post# 1191599 , Reply# 28   10/9/2023 at 11:19 (280 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Belt drive washer oil seal question

combo52's profile picture
I wouldnít worry about it just use it as is that kit you pictured is from 2004 itís 19 years old. I donít know how that little spring got in there but I have never seen that. I think itís something that accidentally got in there.

John


Post# 1191607 , Reply# 29   10/9/2023 at 12:28 (280 days old) by Repairguy (Danbury, Texas)        

repairguy's profile picture
I finally had a chance to check one of my NOS bearing kits and found that that spring does indeed fit on the outside of the lip on the oil seal. Iím not sure what would happen if anything without it. Do you think itís possible that it fell out of the old oil seal that you removed?

Post# 1191612 , Reply# 30   10/9/2023 at 12:52 (280 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        

Hi Melvin and John - thanks so much for the insight. Melvin, that spring definitely didn't come out of the old seal. I took the bearings and seals out quite sometime before I put the new ones in and had cleaned up the floor several times in between. I'm quite certain it came out of the seal for the upper bearing then. If you don't mind me asking, does it just sit on the outside of that lip and is there anything you can see holding it in place like a groove or another lip? From looking from the top of the seal does it just sit near the top or farther down near the bottom?

I'll attempt to reseat it but I doubt I'll be able to get it in with the bearing in the way. If I cant, as John suggested I'll just leave it and see what happens.


Post# 1191620 , Reply# 31   10/9/2023 at 14:44 (280 days old) by Repairguy (Danbury, Texas)        

repairguy's profile picture
Itís sits close to the top in a groove.

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Post# 1191624 , Reply# 32   10/9/2023 at 15:03 (280 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        

Thanks so much for going to the trouble of taking that photo Melvin. This is super helpful for me to understand if and how I could slip it back in. Based on what I'm seeing chances are probably slim to none but I'll give it a shot. Wish me luck!

Thanks again


Post# 1191638 , Reply# 33   10/9/2023 at 19:25 (280 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        

I got it in!

Thank you again Melvin for those pictures. I thought about it for a bit and your picture inspired me to fashion a little tool by bending a picture hanger. I used the tool to push the lip down enough to hook the spring back into that ridge it sits in and repeated that in several spots along the circumference. Once it was sitting in the ridge in enough spots it sort of popped itself back into place. It was tricky because the bearing was in the way so a screwdriver or anything else wasn't really working because of the angle.

It probably doesn't serve much of a function like you mentioned John, the outside lip doesn't really feel more rigid or substantial with spring back in but just the same with all the work I've put into this thing I'm glad I won't find out for sure!

Thank you both so much once again!

More updates to come!


Post# 1191641 , Reply# 34   10/9/2023 at 20:08 (279 days old) by Repairguy (Danbury, Texas)        

repairguy's profile picture
Great news. Glad I could be of assistance and I am definitely looking forward to this machine being in good working order again.

Post# 1192056 , Reply# 35   10/16/2023 at 21:27 (272 days old) by eddy1210 (Burnaby BC Canada)        

eddy1210's profile picture
James, Iím so glad youíre restoring this pair. In much better condition than I had envisioned. Wonderful progress, I hope to see these in person one day! Where did our summer go??
Eddy


Post# 1195517 , Reply# 36   12/17/2023 at 14:48 (211 days old) by 114jwh (Vancouver)        

Long overdue update on the washer and will post pictures once all is said and done and a more detailed description of what I did. Everything is mostly back together now and good news is the timer seems to function perfectly so far.

In the meantime, I know I've asked before but thought I would try one more time - does anyone happen to have either of these knobs kicking around that they would be willing to part with (or even anything close)? Both were missing when I got the machines.

The first is the water level knob for the washer. Its a bit unique in that the required stem length is longer than most knobs I've come across. In addition, it has the settings printed on the knob itself vs the control panel. It fits a standard "D" shaped water level switch shaft. I've attached a few snips to show what the original would have looked like.

The second is the dryer control knob. I've attached a picture of the washer control knob - it would have been the same on the front and the back stem also fits onto a standard "D" shaft.

I'd be eternally grateful if anyone could come up with either of these, particularly the water level knob. The washer is otherwise complete and so this would be the last missing piece. Happy to pay whatever you think it would be worth and of course any shipping cost.

Thanks in advance!


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Post# 1203934 , Reply# 37   4/22/2024 at 02:15 by Repairguy (Danbury, Texas)        

repairguy's profile picture
James I sent you an email.

Post# 1205301 , Reply# 38   5/12/2024 at 21:32 by 114jwh (Vancouver)        

Hi Everyone,

Just wanted to share an update on these. I've moved onto working on the dryer. You might recall my plan is to convert the dryer to electric and so have been looking for a long time to find an electric version of an old style WP dryer to use as a parts donor.

My dryer is the very early version of the WP dryer (I'll call it type 1 for the purposes of this message) with the pulley system, perforated back etc. At some point in the early 1960s, (at least in the US) this design was modified to eliminate the pulleys (type 2) before they abandoned the design altogether in favor of the current 29" WP dryer in 66 (68 in Canada I believe).

These pre 1966/1968 dryers just never show up in my neck of the woods, however I did happen to come across a 1967 Soft Heat Kenmore which is the type 2 design described above.

In addition to differences in the mechanicals, the cabinet is completely different as well and so I can't just swap the control panels. My plan is to just remove the heater and the motor from the type 2 and install it in my type 1.

I know this is a stretch but wondering if anyone has a copy of a wiring diagram of the electric Whirlpool version of my dryer that they could share. I don't know what the dryer model number would have been but the matching WP washer was W6004800 I believe. If I can get my hands on this wiring diagram I think it would help considerably with getting this project done!

I've attached a copy of the wiring diagram for the gas version and a photo of the dryer that I'm using as a parts donor as well plus a couple other pics showing the backs of both.

Thanks in advance and wish me luck!


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Post# 1205305 , Reply# 39   5/12/2024 at 22:41 by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        

maytag85's profile picture
Itíd be easier to convert it to propane.

Post# 1205317 , Reply# 40   5/13/2024 at 06:40 by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Converting a 1960 whirlpool built gas dryer to electric

combo52's profile picture
You may be able to use the heater box from the one pictured if it physically fits and then you just need a heat relay and wire one leg of the 240 V through the safety thermostat on the heater box and you should be good to go.

Take the heater box out of the gas dryer and see if the entire heater box from the electric dryer will fit, if it doesnít fit, I might have a complete heater box for one of those early electric dryers here somewhere.

I would save all the gas parts just in case your living situation ever changes and you are in a place with natural gas. It could be converted back easily.

I would not be as keen on using propane it very expensive and more dangerous than natural gas.
John


Post# 1205397 , Reply# 41   5/14/2024 at 10:42 by 114jwh (Vancouver)        

Thanks so much for your help John. This one has me a bit stumped, partially because I don't understand the operation of gas valves very well. When I disconnect the gas valve I'm left with 3 wires as shown on the wiring diagram. I know this is where I need to connect the heater but can't seem to wrap my head around how to connect

Another twist with this is the heating element is a dual wattage so there is three terminals. On the Inglis dryer, the high/low temperature is controlled by the timer (as seen on the filter lid) although there is an air/heat switch on the control panel to turn off the heater.

The final twist is I need to use the motor from the donor machine, this has 5 terminals vs the existing motor having 4.

I'll have to figure out a relay as well - is there one you can recommend or the specs I should look for?

The heater box does fit from the type 2 dryer onto the type 1 dryer. The only difference is it sits a bit more proud on the dryer it came from vs the dryer its going into due to some welded brackets on the back but I don't think this will be an issue.

Thanks so much!


Post# 1205406 , Reply# 42   5/14/2024 at 21:14 by 114jwh (Vancouver)        

Looks like the photos didn't make it with my previous message so here they are!

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Post# 1205414 , Reply# 43   5/15/2024 at 00:55 by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        

maytag85's profile picture
Be sure to oil the drum bearing to make sure everything is well lubricated to keep everything operating smoothly. Donít know what the lubricating process is like on these older Whirlpool dryers, but I imagine itís similar to a Maytag HOH dryer.

Post# 1205635 , Reply# 44   5/19/2024 at 11:36 by 114jwh (Vancouver)        

Just a quick update - starting to get this dryer buttoned up. I painted over some rusty areas and cleaned up a few others. That felt seal around the exhaust doesn't have much life yet but I think I might be able to use a aftermarket universal dryer seal to make a new one.

Still struggling a bit with the wiring piece but once that is figured out it should be good to go!

Another plug for anyone that might have a wiring diagram for the electric version of this dryer or something close - I'd be super grateful :)

Thanks everyone!


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Post# 1205656 , Reply# 45   5/19/2024 at 14:05 by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

Looks great!


Post# 1205657 , Reply# 46   5/19/2024 at 14:13 by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Early Whirlpool, gas dryer conversion to electric

combo52's profile picture
Hi James, yes the machine is looking great.

Itís fairly easy to convert from gas to electric youíve already done the most difficult part installing the heater assembly.

You need to get a 120 V coil relay that can handle at least 25 A and connect the power to the coil on the relay to the 1V and 3V wires That went to the burner assembly.

Connect the motor up the way it was before even though there are five wires on the replacement motor you only use for you might have to install a jumper.

If you still have the wiring harness from the electric dryer, you took the heater from installed the terminal block and use some of the heavy wiring thatís attached to it going down to the heater. You will wire relay on one side of the line letís say L one and youíll wire L2 through the high limit thermostat at the bottom of the heater box to the common wire of the three terminals on the heater the other two terminals get tied together.

It might be easier if you call me. Iím around this afternoon if you like, I can go over a little bit more detail.

But itís pretty easy to do we converted Paul Chaksís 1965 Kenmore dryer from gas to electric and Iíve done many others. Iíve also converted quite a few electric ones as needed.

John



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