Thread Number: 94039
/ Tag: Modern Dryers
Miele T1 Dryer Drum Volumes and Options... Advice from T1 Owners Please
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|Post# 1187187   8/9/2023 at 11:48 by Matthewza (Cape Town, South Africa)  || |
Hey everyone. Here's another question for the Miele experts, particularly anyone with a T1 heat pump dryer:
Drum volumes (liters) - I popped into the Miele store after work yesterday to look at dryers, as we had an 18% increase in electricity tarrifs in July, and with this being a super wet winter and just generally tumble drying 50% to 75% of all our washing (because apartment living) , I figured it might be worthwhile relooking at switching to a heat pump dryer. Even though I LOVE my American style LG vented.
So I looked at the basic 7kg model, the 8kg and the 9kg top of the line (currently a very good deal offered on the 9kg TOL due to it being discontinued), but when looking at the manuals, they all claim to have a drum size of 120 liters. Is this correct? Does Miele use the same size drums in all their driers but just label them differently? The 7kg drum has a matte finish while the 9kg is shiny.
Miele SA has an "unboxed" outlet at their Johannesburg head office that sells discontinued and ex display stock at quite good prices, and they have a few 7kg dryers in stock and can source me an 8kg.or 9kg if I want one.
But after reading all the manuals, why would one pay a huge premium for the 9kg, whereas the 7kg has the same size drum, apparently? Yes the 9kg has the M-touch system and steam functionality, and claims to be more energy efficient at using 1.25kWh of electricity for a full 9kg load spun at 1600rpm (my W1 washer spins at 1600 and is an 8kg machine, so this could be quite achievable), while the 7kg model claims 1.3kWh for a full 7kg load spun at 1600rpm...
Basically, to summarise this essay that wasn't supposed to be an essay;
1) Does Miele use the same size dryer drum across the T1 range?
2) Is it worth the massive price jump to get the top end 9kg model over the base 7kg model?
3) just to really put a spanner in the works - the 9kg domestic model is the same price as the new entry level SmartBiz Semi Commercial 7kg heat pump dryer (also 120L drum volume) so would that not be the way to go rather?
Model numbers for reference:
Base 7kg: TCA 220 WP Active
9kg TOL on sale: TWR 860 WP
8kg: TWC 220 WP
SmartBiz 7kg Semi Commercial: PDR300
|Post# 1187188 , Reply# 1   8/9/2023 at 12:08 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))  || |
The drums are all the same.
The heat pump systems (and motors) might not be/aren't.
The BOL model you listed has a normal induction motor, the MOL one you listed has the inverter motor.
I wouldn't go with the SmartBiz.
That's the one commercial model that isn't much different to the household models.
The functionality of the home models in that price range would be more worth it.
Some models up the range might be quieter - some having the insulated quiet drum.
The true commercial T1 Little Giant models have a larger, 130L drum, as well as an entirely different drying system (way bigger compressor, seperate drum and fan motors, dry way quicker).
|Post# 1187209 , Reply# 2   8/9/2023 at 18:00 by Labboy (SD, CA)  || |
|Post# 1187244 , Reply# 3   8/10/2023 at 01:27 by matthewza (Cape Town, South Africa)  || |
@ Henrik: Thank you for your feedback - glad to hear that the drums are all the same and that its not my imagination or errors in the Miele manuals. Why would they rate them at different capacities? To deter people from pairing a lower end dryer with a higher end washer? Also helpful info re the motors and heat pump systems.
After reading my original post again, I think I answered my own question - the TWR860 manual claims to use less power for a 9kg load, than what the TCA220 claims to use for a 7kg load - therefore one pays more for the efficiency not necessarily the extra capacity.
Thank you for the info re the SmartBiz vs Little Giants. The Price jump from SmartBiz to the base model Little Giant Heat Pump (PDR507) is quite a jump, and unfortunately not something I can look at right now.
IIRRC, you also have a T1? What is the average kilowatts per cycle that you are achieving with yours?
@Bob - thanks for your feedback! Great to hear that you did not have a hard time switching from the LG to the Miele. Does your model have a bed linen cycle? And how do you find your model in terms of drying bed linen? No balling? One of the reasons I got rid of my Bosch condenser after only 2 years was because it balled up bedding and I had just had enough. The big drum on the LG has never left me with balled bedding, even when drying 2 sets of double bed linen in 1 load. Have you measured the kilowatts per load that your Miele is achieving?
|Post# 1187245 , Reply# 4   8/10/2023 at 02:29 by Logixx (Germany)  || |
"Why would they rate them at different capacities?"
I would assume this is the case for most of the mainstream European brands. Bosch have their 112 liter drum, Electrolux is 118 liters, Miele 120... yet each brand has "smaller" and "larger" capacities available. It's the same with washers, isn't it.
|Post# 1187254 , Reply# 5   8/10/2023 at 08:47 by Labboy (SD, CA)  || |
Our LG did not have a bed linen cycle. Drying duvet covers and fitted sheets was always a chore. Iíd always have to un-ball everything and then do another full cycle to get everything dry.
Miele bed linen drying cycle is amazing. Iíve only had one time where there was some slight balling of a very heavy flannel duvet cover where it was not completely dry. Normally, one bed linen cycle takes care of things flawlessly.
|Post# 1187260 , Reply# 6   8/10/2023 at 10:30 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))  || |
I had an 8kg one with an A+++ rating here.
There is no equivalent on the Miele South Africa website - basically the efficiency of the upper end one you listed.
My biggest loads were 40 T-Shirts, spun at 1600rpm, and done in 2 to 2 1/2 hours.
Since most heat pump dryers have an almost constant power draw, it's as simple as multiplying time with power draw.
Those higher efficiency models draw about 550W.
So, somewhere in the range of 1.1kWh to 1.4kWh.
Most more regular sized loads are 90min, so below 1kWh.
Finding any load that's done quicker than an hour is rare.
But on average, I'd say 1kWh per load.
The step up to the Little Giants is extremely steep and for households does not really make sense.
Great dryers none the less.
I currently have and plan on keeping a VZug TOL dryer.
That one is somewhat more efficient in day to day use since it has an inverter compressor.
The app says an average of 0,5kWh per load, but I would say more towards 0,7kWh since I run some very low usage cycles that skew that average.
|Post# 1187319 , Reply# 7   8/11/2023 at 04:46 by matthewza (Cape Town, South Africa)  || |
Thank you for everybody's input.
I ordered a Watt meter, so I will spend the weekend running updated power consumption tests on my LG dryer, and then compare that to the Miele claimed consumption figures to see how big of a saving I can expect. I did these tests round about this time last year, but at that stage I had a 1400 spin Siemens washing machine, and now have a 1600 spin Miele W1, so I am sure the updated results will differ slightly based on the increased spin speed of the new machine. I will update this with those readings.
@ Bob - I am very surprised that your LG balls up your bed linen. I have never had that issue, and I have had mine for 2 years now. I dry bed linen on the perm. press cycle, and even if I have 2 sets in, I don't have balling. One thing the LG does struggle with, but this is a problem with all American size dryers, is the loads that are single items or less than 5 items. They tend to just stick to the drum. But that is nothing a few dry, clean hand towels thrown in with the load cant fix.
@ Henrik - thanks for the info re how simple it is to work out the heat pump power consumption. Very different compared to how with my vented dryer, the heater cycles on and off during the cycle, and those on and off times are determined by the selected heat level. So my vented never pulls a constant rate of power throughout the cycle. But the sensor drying on the LG is pretty good - I very rarely go above "normal" dryness, unless it is a fuller than usual load. I have started drying towels on timed dry though with medium heat, as I noticed that if I use the Towels cycle (medium high heat as default), or the normal cycle at medium heat, it always ends the cycle far too soon and the towels are still very damp. This is also the case if I up the dryness level. Not sure if this could be because of load size and the load maybe not drying as quickly as the machine would like it to so it just ends the cycle early? But a load of 4 bath sheets, spun at 1600, dried on time dry 45 mins (5 of those are cool down) and medium heat setting, come out perfectly. If I have a larger load with a few hand towels thrown in I then set it to 50 mins. But the sensor drying works perfectly for clothing and I have never had to re-dry anything, and 99% of the loads I dry, get dried on perm. press (low heat)
One thing I do that helps, when I dry our work shirts (poly cotton blend button up shirts), I dry them on perm. press but I activated the damp dry signal. Then when I hear that, I set a timer on my phone for 10 to 12 minutes, and then take then shirts out and put them on their hangers before the cycle ends, so to avoid them laying in the drum and creasing. So I open the dryer, take 2 shirts out, and let the rest keep tumbling while I put those 2 on their hangers. And repeat until the dryer is empty. This is how my mom did it all the years we were in school and how she taught me to do it, and I cant imagine doing it differently. I know one is not supposed to open a HP dryer while its running, but I am hoping that if I wait for the last 5 to 10 minutes of the cycle, I can still do this without it causing any problems?
Your V-zug sounds amazing, and in a country like SA where power is so expensive (and scarce, thanks to the rolling blackouts) I find it so important to have appliances that are as efficient as possible, and a dryer with such low consumption would be amazing here. I can just imagine it would cost way more than a TOL Miele though, sadly
|Post# 1187335 , Reply# 8   8/11/2023 at 10:12 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))  || |
Heat pump dryers - mostly - pull consistent power since the heat pump runs continuously.
If the heat pump is not running, the cold side of the heat exchanger won't get cooled, thus no condensation takes place and thus no drying.
Thus, the heat pump rune basically non stop. Temperature is very low by nature, an a cooling fan can help reduce the temperature.
Some dryers use inverter heat pumps that can vary their speed and thus power. Most designs use single speed heat pumps.
Electrolux's TOL dryers - at least the T9 AEG that I had for a few months - did pause the heat pump during specific stages if uneven drying was detected.
They would allow a few minutes for moisture to spread through the items and restart drying.
The main reason you shouldn't stop a heat pump dryer is that most heat pump dryers have a safety system build in that forces a 2-5 min wait for the heat pump to restart once it has stopped.
Opening the door stops the heat pump, thus, making the cycle longer.
Lost heat used to be a significant issue - but modern highly efficient heat pump dryers rely so little on heat for drying that in my experience that barely matters.
I was lucky with my purchase.
I had my lower end MOL Miele set and wanted to upgrade.
The swiss frank was about equal to the euro at that time and Miele just had bumped the prices of their TOL models.
So, renting a bigger car, driving to Switzerland, picking up the VZug set, paying import duties and driving back up was about equal in cost to a TOL Miele set.
The TOL Miele Passion dryer is equipped with an inverter heat pump aswell.
The slight savings that allows (about 10%) aren't really worth the upgrade cost.
It is unparalleled in terms of flexibility and clothing care though!
Still - if you can get a great price on the MTouch one you'll be very happy.