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Thread Number: 94112
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Lucky escape for us all! |
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| Post# 1188080 8/21/2023 at 09:07 (250 days old) by alanlondon (London) | ||
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We had a message from our tenants recently to say there was a burning smell when they came back home and they had traced it back the washing machine. When I went round to investigate first bad sign was this...
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| Post# 1188082 , Reply# 1 8/21/2023 at 09:08 (250 days old) by alanlondon (London) | ||
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Here it is in situ:
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| Post# 1188083 , Reply# 2 8/21/2023 at 09:10 (250 days old) by alanlondon (London) | ||
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Took the bottom plinth off and this is what I found | ||
| Post# 1188084 , Reply# 3 8/21/2023 at 09:13 (250 days old) by alanlondon (London) | ||
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Lucky for us... ... the heater had melted the rubber door seal, allowed water out and put out the smouldering heater and tripped the electrics | ||
| Post# 1188086 , Reply# 5 8/21/2023 at 09:19 (250 days old) by alanlondon (London) | ||
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Here's its replacement let's hope we get 15 years out of this one!
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| Post# 1188134 , Reply# 6 8/21/2023 at 21:19 (250 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD) | ||
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very lucky indeed. that was a decent little fire going in there until the water was released -if I owned a bosch like this one,I would be checking for loose connections at the heater and remove any unneeded plastic parts in that area ! | ||
Post# 1188141 , Reply# 7 8/21/2023 at 22:17 (250 days old) by combo52  (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Washer, fire
Most fires like this don’t spread, but it is still scary, the steel cabinet will normally contain it.
But it’s another good reminder that it’s really not a great idea to have a heater in the washing machine. The wiring eventually gets loose and overheats As a repair tech, I see things like this pretty often, however, here in the states, people never use the heater in their front load washer, so we don’t see it as often, John | ||
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Post# 1188150 , Reply# 9 8/22/2023 at 02:01 (249 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 1188152 , Reply# 10 8/22/2023 at 02:15 (249 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK) |
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Most of us with dryers with electric heaters
rarely combust as we do NOT have dryer vents like the USA and are they not one of the biggest causes of house fires?
I think its safe to say we all have appliances that can burst into flames but on the most part they are all safe when used correctly. You also have to remember most of us with 220/240 outlets as standard don't have to have huge tanks of hot water using energy as we heat from cold what we need. Swings and roundabouts as they say!! | ||
| Post# 1188161 , Reply# 11 8/22/2023 at 06:11 (249 days old) by Aquarius1984 (Planet earth) | ||
Another one who finds Johns attitude towards europe | ||
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Post# 1188162 , Reply# 12 8/22/2023 at 06:53 (249 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Electrical fires in major appliances
My point is, it’s not a good idea to have a two or 3000 W heating element in a plastic outer tub.
We have ovens with up to 6000 W of heat here but they’re not made out of plastic. Clothes dryers have very few plastic parts in them, and certainly nowhere near the heat source. I see several cases of burned up wiring connections every month servicing, major appliances, if things are properly built, it doesn’t have any tendency to spread or cause a big problem. It just stops working. Dishwashers have been a significant fire risk here in the US because of control failures and plastic tanks, etc.. and yes, the heating elements in the bottom of plastic tank dishwashers have cause some problems, not the least of which they can distort and melt through the tank and destroy the tank. The machines with stainless steel tanks have been significantly less of a problem, but even Bosch and Siemens had a big recall on their models here in the US because of control fires. The whole point of my original post was not knocking European washing machines with heating elements. It was merely to show the danger of adding heating elements to front loading washers that have plastic outer tubs etc.. This definitely is a potential danger in the machines we sell here but as I stated very few people ever use that heater anyway so it seldom happens thankfully. John | ||
| Post# 1188168 , Reply# 13 8/22/2023 at 08:06 (249 days old) by Aquarius1984 (Planet earth) | ||
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John read this. Actually read it. Don’t assume what you want to assume.
For FIFTY 50 years washing machines have been made in Europe WITH heaters AND plastic outer tubs. It’s exceedingly RARE for a heating element in a washing machine to cause a fire. END OF. We are talking millions of machines made and used across Europe over the past 50 years. Millions. Stop trying to beat a dead horse. | ||
| Post# 1188222 , Reply# 16 8/22/2023 at 19:08 (249 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
Reply #11 & #13
Why are you being combative and condescending towards John? It’s silly to argue with someone who has over 50 years experience repairing and servicing appliances for customers, since you have “1984” (assuming that’s the year you were born), you are only 38 and if you have repaired appliances since you were a teenager, that’s only 20 something years of experience, which is a little less than John L’s career working on and servicing appliances.
You are beating on a dead horse by being combative and argumentative. | ||
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Post# 1188258 , Reply# 17 8/23/2023 at 03:52 (248 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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Sean Being wrong for longer isn't always a good thing. Just being in a business for a long time dosen't mean you are right. All I can say beyond that is that I have black-listed Johns messages for 2 years now - so I don't know what he has been saying. But the fact that that is the case should give an indication on how I see his contributions. | ||
| Post# 1188292 , Reply# 18 8/23/2023 at 14:03 (248 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
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Post# 1188323 , Reply# 20 8/23/2023 at 18:59 (248 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Burned wiring on a water heating element
In a front loading washer.
This type of damage would be caused by loose, high resistance, wire, connections, or possibly water leaking onto the terminals. This type of thing is not caused by a stuck heater relay or a hotspot on the heater or a heating element that’s burning out I’ve replaced easily 1000 or more heating elements and stoves, dryers, etc. it never damages the wiring. As a heating element is burning out, it actually draws less power at the end of its life. Yes, it’s fortunate that it didn’t start a house fire, but since the cabinet of the washing machine is steel, it’s very unlikely to spread to the home plus the homes sprinkler system with protect from a catastrophic fire very effectively. However, if the tub had continue to burn, you could have a lot of smoke damage. Question for the European guys how common are arc fault breakers on that side of the ocean? Here in the US, they’re starting to mandate arc fault breakers, which, when something starts to arcing like this should theoretically shut the power off immediately. When my business partner, Jason was rewiring his home, he updated to all arc fault breakers. There’s somewhat more expensive and every once in a while, something will cause a nuisance trip especially something that’s older that has a contact at arcs internally. John | ||
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Post# 1188338 , Reply# 21 8/23/2023 at 20:22 (248 days old) by Brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia) |
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In Australia, it became mandatory to use arc fault breakers in April this year. They didn’t exist in the AU standards until 2018. So going forward all new breakers will need to provide earth leakage and arc fault protection. | ||
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Post# 1188365 , Reply# 23 8/24/2023 at 04:12 (247 days old) by marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Dublin) |
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Arc-Fault Detection Devices AFDDs (as they are called outside the US & Canada) have recently become required in the UK in high-risk situations such as student accommodation and care homes. AFDDs are recommended for socket outlet circuits in all premises but are not yet mandatory.
I have them in the US on some circuits and not one of them has ever tripped for any reason except on one occasion when a dishwasher blew up in smoke! I bought this Whirlpool for $20 and it had been sitting outside and the seller had hosed it down (!). I tested it outside and it worked for a while and then this happened. It was plugged into a circuit protected by a combined GFCI-AFCI. After it tripped, the indicator light showed that it was an arc fault that had caused the trip and not a ground fault. Check out my video:
http://youtube.com/shorts/tDKt515zAm4
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Post# 1188366 , Reply# 24 8/24/2023 at 06:38 (247 days old) by Adam-aussie-vac (Canberra ACT) |
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Hosed it down? Like literally sprayed it with a hose on the front? | ||
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Post# 1188367 , Reply# 25 8/24/2023 at 06:58 (247 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Burning control board on a whirlpool dishwasher
Wow, Mark, you caught one on camera, they had a lot of boards burn in point voyager dishwashers it could be particularly bad on the plastic machines like that because sometimes the fire spread pretty badly.
The connections on the board would overheat and start a fire. this one may have been caused by water if enough water got in there when the guy cleaned the machine but it was still a bad design. It’s good the arc fault breaker shut down however, I’m not sure this was a success. The dishwasher could’ve still burned the house down if the fire had really gotten going. John | ||
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