Thread Number: 94892  /  Tag: Modern Dishwashers
Miele G5600 "Futura" Dishwasher Error Code F-24
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Post# 1195199   12/11/2023 at 17:17 by RP2813 (Sannazay)        

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After researching on line, it appears the F-24 error code is an indication of a bad heater or a bad heater relay.  The relay seems to be the more common F-24 culprit.  I found a video that was very helpful, and the first advisory was to check the heater's resistance.  I did this using a multi-meter and got a reading of 12 ohms.  The machine in the video was located in Australia, so that means 240v.  I think the reading on that heater was in the upper 20's. 

 

Is it safe to assume that the reading I got would indicate the heater is OK, based on 110v?  If so, then the relay is likely bad, but the video didn't provide any way to test it.  Finding a replacement locally has been futile.  Even on line the hits I got were for used ones on eBay, and they were not cheap.  I hate handwashing dishes and they've been stacking up, so the sooner I figure this out, the better.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.  Here's a picture of the relay:

 

 


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Post# 1195234 , Reply# 1   12/12/2023 at 01:45 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

12 Ohm is about spot on.
Checking that there is no fault to earth is important to, so for good measure, check between the heater and its casing, though that is unlikely as that would/should have caused more of an issue.

It could be the relay or the main control.
The main control sends 12V DC to the relay, which then switches the 120V AC for the heater.
If the control does not send 12V to the relay, that can't switch over.
Seems more like the relay is bad though, yeah.



Of course, where possible, you should always use original parts.
But that specific relay is actually mostly no longer available or obscenely expensive for a very simple relay.

If you are technical enough to do some wire splicing and terminating, you should be abled to just get any 12VDC relay that can switch 250V AC 16A and use that instead.

I would check the resistance between pins a and b on the relay to make sure the new relay isn't requiring to much more input current on the switching side.



If those are just regular spade connectors, you can get matching generic relays for just about 20$.
This one has spade connectors but might be a bit bigger size wise.
That's why you might have to rewire some stuff to fit it elsewhere:

www.mcmaster.com/product/...

Control voltage would go on terminals 13&14 instead of a and b on that one, and the heater between one common and one normally open contact, so 5&9 or 8&12.


Post# 1195239 , Reply# 2   12/12/2023 at 04:18 by Brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Have you just rung Miele to get a price on the part? Over here if you ring with the part number, or ring with the dishwasher model and ask for the heater control/relay, they should be able to email/text you parts diagrams that you can then use to identify the part and have them give you the correct part # and price.

Your logic in testing the element makes sense. The only other thing you could do is check whether there is voltage at the element terminals once the main wash starts and tries to heat. If there’s no voltage, it’s either the relay or the control board, but more likely the relay.


Post# 1195245 , Reply# 3   12/12/2023 at 07:24 by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)        

You could open and clean the relay...

Normally they are replaced but I have cleaned a few relays before (mostly low voltage) and had luck. You need to be gentle with the old plastics to avoid breaking. I'd only bother if you have difficulty finding a new relay at a reasonable price.

Here's a Youtube on cleaning the relay... Not the best video but it gives you the idea.

 




 

Contact cleaner (from an electronic components store) is great for cleaning slightly burnt contacts.

 

Sometimes the relay contacts are burnt beyond repair, if the contacts are deeply pitted it must be replaced.

 

Also, try searching the part number "5870220 relay" on Google and you get matches all over the world. There seems to be plenty of used "tested" ones in Germany and the UK on Ebay for good prices. They are the same part in 120V and 240V machines - the coil is 12 Volts DC and the contacts are rated at up to 16 Amps at 250 Volts. I can see them at Australian suppliers (where I am) for about AUD $170 which is about USD$115, plus postage.

 


Post# 1195250 , Reply# 4   12/12/2023 at 08:39 by me (Essex, UK)        

Relays failure is typically from stuck contacts caused by arcing, measure the resistance (or check for continuity) between the switch contacts 13 - 14, and also 23 - 24, those should be open circuit when the relay isn't powered.

If they are stuck then a few gentle taps with a screwdriver will typically be enough to temporarily free them. Removing the relay may have jarred it enough to break the "weld".

Sooner or later, possibly even next use the relay will weld again because the plating on the contact surface is damaged, so may be unwise to use it if they have this fault.





Post# 1195271 , Reply# 5   12/12/2023 at 15:29 by RP2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

Thanks to all for the good information.

 

I opened up the relay housing and as you can see in the shot below, there's been some serious arcing action happening.  The contacts had what appeared to be pitting, but on closer examination there seemed to be a texture to the silvery surface on the contact points.  Without a brand new relay for comparison, I don't know if the textured surface is intentional or not. 

 

I think the carbon residue inside the housing is enough to indicate trouble regardless, so I'll begin the hunt for a replacement relay.  I'd prefer brand new, but may have to settle for used & tested.  I didn't think my dishwasher was so old that parts for it could be NLA by this time.  It's been doing a great job, so I'll happily pay for a relay as opposed to a whole new machine.


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Post# 1195278 , Reply# 6   12/12/2023 at 17:13 by me (Essex, UK)        

You would expect to get arcing since it is switching a few amps.


A quick web search suggests that error can also be caused by a faulty pressure switch. See video

If the relay contacts weren't stuck closed when you checked it, then I would be inclined to check the coil isn't open circuit and fit it back in the machine to see if the error has gone away, which would confirm the relay is the issue, and also allow you to use the machine until it sticks again.






Post# 1195279 , Reply# 7   12/12/2023 at 17:17 by me (Essex, UK)        

I'm not sure about the wisdom of wedging a screwdriver in the sensor to test it as shown in that video, it might puncture the rubber gasket. I'd either blow in it, or use something blunt.

Post# 1195305 , Reply# 8   12/13/2023 at 08:13 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

I don't think F24 could be the pressure switch.
As far as I am aware - I might be wrong - if the pressure switch senses a low level it sends a signal to the control.
I don't think the heater is switched through the pressure switch.
Though somebody on here not to long ago had his pressure switch fail on a G6000 machine. Only way he noticed was that his usage readings were through the roof.

F24 says that there is a fault in the heating circuit.
If this specific machine switches the heater through the pressure switch, then yeah.
If there has been arcing - and the signs are there on that cover - that can lead to bad contacts.
I've been watching HVACR videos' channel on YT and having pitted contactors from arcing causing bad or no connection is pretty common.



Looking at Mieles parts catalogue, this machine was on sale from 2010-2016.

Miele has the relay in stock for 83,51$.


Post# 1195307 , Reply# 9   12/13/2023 at 08:20 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Safest way to make sure you're getting the right part

www4.miele.de/msd/MSD#/start...

Enter the M-Nr. from the rating plate, that includes any revision specifc things your specific machine has.


What's interesting is that this machine lists a lot of 240V parts?
Did Miele do the same for these machines as with their washers where they just threw in a transformer?

Cause 12 Ohms at 120V works out just right, 12 Ohms at 240V is like way to low.
But then again, if that was the case, your fuse would have certainly blown in your distribution panel.


Post# 1195314 , Reply# 10   12/13/2023 at 12:15 by RP2813 (Sannazay)        

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Henrik, thanks for the argument against the pressure switch.  I located the switch and was dreading the process of accessing and extracting it.  Melvin was right about the pressure switch video not being the best presentation, so I wasn't comfortable with pursuing that possibility.

 

Unfortunately, the relay isn't available on line from the Miele parts site you provided.  I've had no luck getting through the Miele USA parts site, so I've made an offer on a relay listed on eBay with the only seller who will accept returns. 

 

If my machine was produced in 2010, I guess 13 years is a decent run for a relay.  If it was among the last produced in 2016, not so much. 


Post# 1195316 , Reply# 11   12/13/2023 at 12:34 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Maybe I'm looking at the wrong version or - even though I have the US specifically selected - that site is wonky.
The parts catalog is pretty new, so it might just still look for IP location and override the location selection.

But I still get it displayed as available.
But if you found something for a reasonable price, the better.



Also finally found a list of all common Miele DW fault codes.

F24 is described as a heater circuit issue.
F25 is described as a failure to reach target temp.
F26 is described as a overheat fault.

So if the pressure switch would keep interrupting heating the DW would time out and probably record F25.

There is a specific fault for the pressure switch, analogue to the washers, F51.
Don't know what would trigger that.


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Post# 1195321 , Reply# 12   12/13/2023 at 14:51 by me (Essex, UK)        

Found this manual

TECHNICAL INFORMATIONG 5xxx Futura Dishwashers(All US Models) www.manualslib.com/manual...

F24 -> www.manualslib.com/manual...



Post# 1195322 , Reply# 13   12/13/2023 at 15:10 by me (Essex, UK)        

Looks like the same wiring arrangement as in that video


B1/13 in that diagram is the pressure switch

also see p86

www.manualslib.com/manual...



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Post# 1195323 , Reply# 14   12/13/2023 at 15:24 by Brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Hi Ralph,

Have you actually tried calling Miele, in AU, the only way to get parts as an end user is to call. Those relays have been used in the washers and dishwashers for a very long time, if that specific part wasn’t available, there would be a substitution.

Cheers

Nathan


Post# 1195325 , Reply# 15   12/13/2023 at 15:45 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
I totally forgot that document existed

Must have read this 1000 times and never connected the 2 dots.
Thanks for picking up on that!

The whole relay/pressure switch setup is very interesting.
The pressure switch does communicate with the control but switches the heater on both poles at the same time.
The heater relay also switches both poles.
So I was wrong, the pressure switch does indeed physically switch the heater.



However, F24 does certainly indicate a relay or wiring issue.
The machine does check the heater relay at certain points in the cycle.
That can happen when there is no water in the machine.

The machine then checks that with the pressure switch open and no power to the relay, no voltage goes to the electronic control.
If there however IS voltage, the machine registers F24.

The condition of the pressure switch is tested before that test takes place.


The pressure switch errors are actually connected to that self check routine.

F51 is the pressure switch error.
A few seconds before F24 is checked, F51 is checked.
For that, the machine DOES send voltage to the heater relay.
Since there is no water in the machine, the machine DOES want to see voltage at the control since that means the relay is closed and the pressure switch is open.



If the pressure switch did not indicate correct water levels during actual cycle operation, either a water intake error F14 or pressure switch error F52 would be displayed.




Given that info and the picture of the relay, I would assume the contacts are sticky.

It's a really weird, but very safe and pretty smart setup.
This way, to get unrequested heating, both the pressure switch AND the relay would have to fail closed at the same time.
The pressure switch is more likely to fail open, while the relay is more likely to fail closed.




Post# 1195329 , Reply# 16   12/13/2023 at 16:41 by me (Essex, UK)        

Yeah, I agree, I think the only way I can see a faulty pressure switch causing a F24 error is if water leaked into it providing a path to earth, then there might be enough potential from the earth connection to trigger the F24 fault when the heater relay was tested while open.

At miele's silly prices for a cheap relay, I think I'd measure the current that relay coil draws on a 12V DC supply as it is important not to exceed that, and find a suitable replacement to wire up, which probably wouldn't cost more than 2-3 quid + postage. Would need to be safely secured and insulated of cause.


Post# 1195334 , Reply# 17   12/13/2023 at 18:09 by RP2813 (Sannazay)        

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Thanks for further confirmation that the relay is likely the source of the F24.  This information matches what I found on line:  the most common cause of the F24 code is a bad relay.

 

I searched for Miele parts dealers in the San Francisco bay area and got lots of hits, but when I called few of them I was told that they don't stock Miele parts.  Go figure.  It seems that the only way to purchase a Miele part is to schedule a service call through an authorized Miele service provider.  My offer for the used relay was accepted.  Although the price was higher than a new one from Miele, it's still a lot less expensive than the additional cost of sending a repair tech out.

 

This situation has spooked me about ever buying another Miele product, I will tell you that much.


Post# 1195348 , Reply# 18   12/13/2023 at 23:20 by Brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Here is the part available from Miele USA. Added to my basket and ready to checkout.

Item 120 in the 8th diagram



CLICK HERE TO GO TO Brisnat81's LINK


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Post# 1195349 , Reply# 19   12/14/2023 at 00:06 by RP2813 (Sannazay)        
Open the Link Below and See What Happens

rp2813's profile picture

This is where I land after I click on the link that was provided immediately above: "(h)ttps://ww4.miele.de/msd/MSD#/device/43049/etd/1836514681701"   It's almost entirely blank except for the banner info at top and some diagrams on the left, there's no item in the cart, the part number is one I haven't seen, it's not the Miele USA site and the 8th diagram doesn't apply to the relay.  If you don't arrive at that empty German Miele page like I did, something must be getting lost in the link translation between continents.  I don't know where the problem lies, but Miele USA seems not to want to play ball with me.

 

Thanks for trying, but I can't return the eBay relay if it clears the problem, so at this point I'm committed.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO RP2813's LINK



This post was last edited 12/14/2023 at 00:42
Post# 1195356 , Reply# 20   12/14/2023 at 06:09 by me (Essex, UK)        
£15 new for the standard relay version.

Ok, so it is a rast 5 power relay 419 11 (ea/..)


rast 5 is apparently a connector standard for cars.

Found a datasheet on RS :- docs.rs-online.com/854d/0900766b...

part no 4-1415419-0 seems to be the standard 12 volt coil version


However, the 03 at the end of the code on the case apparently indicates a custom version. So would need to check for differences, and that the keying and terminal spacing etc are the same.

I suspect there are differences, otherwise people would be selling them on ebay as miele replacement parts with a 50 quid or so mark up!


£15 + postage on Ebay, which is still overprised for a relay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325605555153Q...



Also found the 03 part on Miele's US site www.mieleusa.com/e/-relay... a snip at $83 !!!!!

The .de links give access denied from the UK.

Some of their washing machine relays look rather similar too https://www.ebay.com/itm/164414054742...


Post# 1195358 , Reply# 21   12/14/2023 at 06:25 by beehiveboy (Northamptonshire, England )        

beehiveboy's profile picture
I had this exact repair done by Miele last week….£279! I was very glad to have it quickly resolved and my dishwasher back in business though.

Post# 1195360 , Reply# 22   12/14/2023 at 06:38 by me (Essex, UK)        

Used ebay uk £13 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155917064048...


I also had a quick search for causes of the F24 fault, most likely is sticking relay contacts, but if that doesn't fix it, I also found a few reporting it was fixed by replacing a faulty pressure switch, which had one of the contacts not properly disconnecting when it is activated (like the video) and water ingress/ moisture on its contacts. And also a couple with moisture or bugs on the control board - one was fixed with a clean with IPA.


Post# 1195371 , Reply# 23   12/14/2023 at 13:20 by Brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

No worries Ralph

I got to that link from MieleUSA.com, go to support, repairs and maintenance, parts and accessories, there is a link at the bottom of the page that says view the spare parts catalog. You then enter your model and away you go. It was very difficult to use on the phone and It does work a lot better from the computer than a phone or tablet. The page that loads is in three parts, images on the left, image in the middle and parts list on the right. I’m just banging on about it, so hopefully it works for you next time, it’s not difficult to get parts.

That part number in my cart, is the same as the part number printed on the second line of text on your relay.

We can’t directly order parts in AU, we still have to call, I can’t wait for this service to land here.



Post# 1195379 , Reply# 24   12/14/2023 at 14:24 by me (Essex, UK)        
Followed Nathan's instructions and

..the miele site works.

Looks like you need to go via the landing page (below) to acquire cookies:-

www4.miele.de/msdQUESTIONMARKREP...


Post# 1195385 , Reply# 25   12/14/2023 at 16:21 by RP2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

Thanks guys.  I truly appreciate all of the trouble you have gone to in order to unlock the mysteries of Miele's on line presence.   I can't even imagine using a phone to navigate their site even if I landed on the right one.  I need a full screen with a real keyboard for maximum efficiency and to avoid catastrophic blood pressure spikes. 

 

The relay is scheduled to arrive on Monday.  If it resolves the issue, great.  If it doesn't, then I'll attempt to test the pressure switch if I can find a better explanation on how to do it.  I'm not good with schematics or the lingo and electrical theory required to follow them. 

 

If all else fails, I'll schedule a service call.  That would be far less expensive than replacing the dishwasher like-for-like.

 

 

 

 


Post# 1195418 , Reply# 26   12/15/2023 at 06:53 by me (Essex, UK)        

Hopefully the new relay fixes it, but if not this video came up amongst my youtube recommendations. It's German, but subtitles are available.

He has a pressure valve with a leaking diaphragm, and the water getting in is partially shorting the normally open contacts, and causes an F24, he also mentions it leaks air when blowing in it to test it.

I noticed when I looked on that miele site yesterday the old pressure sensor has been superseded by a new part no; I'd hazard a guess that they may have changed the type of rubber used in that diaphragm to stop dishwasher detergent perishing it.







Post# 1195421 , Reply# 27   12/15/2023 at 12:51 by RP2813 (Sannazay)        
Thanks!

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Fingers crossed that the relay due to arrive on Monday fixes things. 

 

If necessary, I'll try to use my phone's Google translator while I watch portions of the pressure switch video.  I wonder if I pulled it up on the YouTube streaming channel if there would be an English subtitle option there.  I'll look into it.


Post# 1195443 , Reply# 28   12/16/2023 at 00:40 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
I hope the relay fixes it

combo52's profile picture
Hi Ralph, but that pressure switch looks like a really vulnerable design, if I had to bet, I think that’s a part that would fail fairly often after some years much more so than the relay although it won’t hurt to change the relay it does look like it has somewhere on it.

The parts issue is why we don’t fool with Miele appliances we only get a couple calls for Miele dishwashers a month, we are turning down between 10 and 20 calls a week on Bosch dishwashers we don’t fool with those as they’re just difficult to access underneath and have too many difficult problems like the plastic frame breaking for the door spring assembly.

Although the new GE and whirlpool built, dishwashers are getting more crowded underneath and they’re not a picnic to work on either in some cases.

John


Post# 1195454 , Reply# 29   12/16/2023 at 13:23 by RP2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

Thanks John.  I agree about the pressure switch design.  I will cross that bridge if I come to it, unless it's going to be an exasperating process to access it.  At that point, I'll pay for a service call.


Post# 1195611 , Reply# 30   12/18/2023 at 20:38 by RP2813 (Sannazay)        
Oh What a Relief It Is!

rp2813's profile picture

The relay arrived this afternoon and the machine is back up and running.  It's been 20-30 minutes since I started a normal wash cycle with a full load, and the detergent dispenser just popped open.  I'm feeling pretty good about the machine running all the way through.  I've only pushed it back into its opening about half way and still need to pull it back out and put the bottom panel back on.  I'll do that before I run the next batch of dishes and other items that have been backing up.  I really do hate hand-washing dishes!

 

Thanks for all of the time, effort and advice that has been contributed by everyone.  I'm glad it turned out to be the easiest of the potentially necessary repairs.


Post# 1195617 , Reply# 31   12/18/2023 at 21:51 by RP2813 (Sannazay)        
False Alarm

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The machine cut out and displayed F24 around the same point in the cycle as it did the first time.  This was sometime during the main wash because I never heard it drain again, but it's fairly quiet, I was in another room, and after taking a look inside, the tub isn't full of water.  It was definitely hot inside, so the heating system is working.

 

I suppose the pressure switch is the next component to check.  Maybe it will be easier to locate a new one, as I wouldn't trust a used one.

 


Post# 1195623 , Reply# 32   12/19/2023 at 02:14 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Given the machine supposedly runs the F24 check routine after drains start, it would make sense it ran a main wash.

I am still less convinced it is the pressure switch, but what do I know from here on out.


Make sure you take care to follow the instructions in the service manual for the pressure switch replacement, especially taking care about the wash pump.

Don't know how good your multimeter is, but check through the F24 chapter in the service manual aswell.


Post# 1195631 , Reply# 33   12/19/2023 at 07:27 by me (Essex, UK)        

The F24 section of the manual does mention to check for resistance below a value of 10 megaohms (10MΩ) between the sensing lines on ST5 plug to the controller, although apparently the manual has got the plug number wrong according to some comments I saw, which said there was a circuit diagram printed inside somewhere. While the listed causes doesn't include a leaking pressure sensor, that would indicate it could cause that error too. I suspect a partial short to earth to one of those lines might do too.

--------------------------------------
"Cause:

Fault in the plug on the output side of the heater relay.Contamination or corrosion on the plug of the heater wiring harness can cause a bridge between contacts, which can reduce the transfer resistance below a value of 10 megaohms (10MΩ).

Remedy:1. Disconnect the machine from the power supply.2. Disconnect plug ST5 from the electronic.3. Measure the resistance between the lines of the electronic for heater pressure switch B1/13 (pins 12 and 22 on plug ST5).4. If the measured resistance value is smaller than 10 megaohms (10MΩ),then the heater partial wiring harness must be replaced"

----------------------------------------


If the replacement part was a used relay, then it is unfortunately still possible that it still is a heater relay fault, the contacts are only likely to weld when the element is powered, trigging the error after the element is turned off.

No idea if it is typical for dishwashers, but that dishwasher seems a weird design to me, after it does a drain for a while, it apparently has to turn the heater relay on and run the wash pump for a few seconds to check if all the water has drained out using the same two inputs, presumably the element doesn't come on because as long as some water has drained out only one of the two switches in the pressure sensor would turn on.



Post# 1195652 , Reply# 34   12/19/2023 at 11:26 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Those routines don't check for proper draining.

EU DWs have A LOT of redundancy and a lot of self check routines.
Ever since there have been a few cases of fires in DWs due to bad safety design, and with European design standards being VERY strict for appliances, having such self checks is just cheap insurance.


After each drain step it does check the water level via the pressure switch and the recirculation pump.
Only if that test confirms a drain, it continues the self check routine.

The pressure switch function is validated once at the start of the cycle.
All tests afterwards rely on that confirmation to be correct.
That test in it self relies on the assumption any significant water level in the machine before start is noticed by the user.


The test for the relay then relies on a working pressure switch and no creeping current.
Given that a value over 10 mega ohm is required, the electronic appears to be REALLY sensitive on those sensing inputs.


All of that is just to make sure the heater NEVER runs without water.
Even if that means some machines to be scrapped earlier than possible, it's better than thr reputation loss of a house fire.



BSH DWs don't use any real pressure sensors and only rely on drain pump and wash pump feedback for water presence sensing and thus safe heater operation.

That's why the wash pump errors on those happen WAY before the pump is actually unusably worn out.
Keeping big safety margins there means that any wash pump that could remotely sense water presence wrongly would throw error codes WAY before.

Difference is: On the Miele, it could be several components that could cause that issue.
On a Bosch, it's only one part. That part is designed to be as low cost as possible.




That huge safety thing in EU DWs is also why basically ALL DWs have float switches and a closed bottom pan.

Given we have HUGE amounts of dense flats in buildings, and DWs are always in kitchens, and YOU pay for ALL the damage a broken appliance could to ALL flats in a building, it's just way cheaper on the whole to make DWs uber safe against leaking and fire.


Post# 1195694 , Reply# 35   12/19/2023 at 21:35 by RP2813 (Sannazay)        
Ixnay on the Itchsway

rp2813's profile picture

Yeah, all of that electro-jargon is over my head, and the mention of wrong info in the manual was enough to make me decide to cut the crap and make a service call.  The relay was as far down the rabbit hole as I felt comfortable going.

 

I'll circle back to this thread to share the findings and results from the technician visit.


Post# 1195700 , Reply# 36   12/19/2023 at 22:36 by richnz (New Zealand)        
Have a look at where the cable joins the main PCB

A long time ago I had a Miele dishwasher that was corroded where the pressure switch joined the main PCB.

It has 4 wires, 2 go to the pressure switch and 2 go to the heater relay.

Richard


Post# 1195706 , Reply# 37   12/20/2023 at 06:43 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Dishwasher heating elements

combo52's profile picture
This is one of the reasons why domestic dishwasher still put the heating element in the bottom of the tub, it’s a lot safer to have the heating element in an exposed application, where it will not start a fire rather than putting it inside a plastic pump housing.

hi Ralph, have you looked into changing this pressure sensor it might be quite easy, although it is pretty tight under there you may have to pull the dishwasher out to access it. I’ve changed a couple of main pump motors in Miele DWs and it’s not too awful other than having to pull the machine from it’s installed position.

John


Post# 1195743 , Reply# 38   12/20/2023 at 16:42 by RP2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

Hey John,

 

Yes, the machine has been extracted since I started investigating the problem.  It has to be placed on its side in order to access the relay.  I only pushed it partially back into place to do a test run after replacing the relay. 

 

I called an authorized Miele repair service today -- no thanks at all to Miele's poorly designed customer service web site.  They are bent on making it next to impossible to find any sort of assistance with problems, sending the user in circles or to dead ends, and I am done with them in that regard.  I used Google to locate an authorized Miele repair service, found one with good reviews, and they seem to focus on dishwashers.  I have an appointment for a week from today.  

 

Since I've already paid for an overpriced relay that didn't resolve the trouble, I think it makes sense to stop throwing money at this issue when there's no telling whether another overpriced component will rectify the problem.  I'll leave it to the experts, and John, I know I'm preaching to the choir with that decision! 

 

Assuming the machine can be successfully repaired, I'll use it until something else goes wrong.  As much as I love this dishwasher, I won't pursue repairs again.  I'll find myself a nice Whirlpool/KA that offers straight-forward support, repair service and access to parts.  Miele has soured me on ever buying another foreign brand major appliance.


Post# 1196107 , Reply# 39   12/27/2023 at 13:15 by RP2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

The repair guy (Nash) just left.  Super nice and we might even be playing on the same team. 

 

He got on the phone with Miele tech support and went through a lot of diagnostics, pushing various buttons, watching for display info and checking functions.  He's fairly certain it's the pressure switch, but he's ordering another heater relay just in case the one I got from eBay is faulty.  There's a chance it could be the inlet valve, but enough water is entering the machine and the heater is definitely working because after a few minutes of making it run, steam escaped when he opened the door to check water temperature.

 

I don't know when he'll be back, but he's competent, he's interested in understanding machines and getting to the bottom of things, he likes to talk appliances, and likes what he does.  He even checked the OTR GE microwave and replaced a bad fuse -- in exchange for some huge fresh picked lemons my neighbor dropped off while he was here.

 

I'll return with a full report after his next visit.

 

P.S.

 

The Miele tech was on speaker and said the correct way to work on these dishwashers is to turn them on their left side (when facing the front of the machine).  Nash said he puts them upside down.  If you put them on their right side, there's a chance for any remaining water to get into some electrical components.  Luckily for me, I made sure all water was out of the machine and stuffed towels into the sump just in case, because the video I watched for replacing the relay showed the guy laying it on its right side.


Post# 1196540 , Reply# 40   1/4/2024 at 23:08 by RP2813 (Sannazay)        
Success!

rp2813's profile picture

Nash returned today with a new heater relay and pressure switch.  The machine completed a "Normal" cycle without any trouble.  He also fastened the machine into place from the top with Miele screws rather than from the sides with grabber screws, which is how my plumber installed it when we moved in almost five years ago.  It was not easy to remove the grabbers and I'm glad to have the machine is properly secured. 

 

I hope this will be it for a while, but if any other appliance should require repair in the future that's beyond my capabilities to fix, I'll be calling Nash.  He's not only a fine looking man from Azerbaijan with thick black hair and beard but he's also very kind and sociable, and loves his work.  Eye candy is a bonus that the majority of us here can really appreciate.  I wish that man all of the success in the world.  He's very deserving and is managing to make a go of it in the most expensive area in the country.



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