Thread Number: 94939  /  Tag: Modern Dryers
Full Size LG Heat Pump Dryer DLHC5502*
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Post# 1195795   12/21/2023 at 17:27 by appnut (TX)        

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Found mentioned on Energy Star web site and found on Appliance Connection some specs. Dual Inverter HP dryer. 120v/50 amps. AI Sensor dryer like Samsung. 7.8 cu ft. Energy Star certified at 266 kwh/year. Samsumg dryer above 281 kwh/year. LG dryer awarded Energy Star 2024 Most Efficient. I found the user guide too.

This dryer is the match to an existing washer, WM5500H


CLICK HERE TO GO TO appnut's LINK




This post was last edited 12/21/2023 at 19:01



Post# 1195808 , Reply# 1   12/21/2023 at 22:10 by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

120v/50a? That is a weird combination.


Post# 1195813 , Reply# 2   12/21/2023 at 22:32 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Am not finding anything saying either as 240v or 120v dryer rated for 50 amps. Thirty amp yes, that's under installation instructions provided in linked manual above.





IIRC 120v/50amp service does exist for RV wiring, but that's a whole different kettle of fish. rvnerds.com/2023/04/20/electrica...


Post# 1195824 , Reply# 3   12/22/2023 at 07:02 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
normal sounds and cycle video

I wish we could hear what this dryer sounds like in terms of normal cycle sounds. I also wish we could see a full cycle video.

Post# 1195840 , Reply# 4   12/22/2023 at 12:02 by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio)        
tempting

I think I would have to find a new place to live at this point, as someone wouldn't be happy about the purchase.

The Duet dryer is a little slow now, so I am not sure I could deal with the extended cycle times. 


Post# 1195856 , Reply# 5   12/22/2023 at 17:53 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Interesting bit of information from 2019 comparing vented, condenser and heat pump dryers then on market.

ci.healdsburg.ca.us/DocumentCent...


Post# 1195878 , Reply# 6   12/23/2023 at 04:06 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

There is a big difference between HP dryers that have a booster heater and those that have a full inverter compressor.

You can get similar speeds on both, and those aren't that far off of vented dryers, but those with booster heaters will always be way less efficient.
I think the US's regulations will change not to far in the future lifting the drying time requirements for heatpump dryers or reducing them at least.

Thing is that a 2kW inverter is a COMPLETELY different beast to a 1kW inverter.
That will change as well.
LG I think went the pure full inverter route, Samsung and Whirlpool the booster heater route.



But I think - unless there will be some programs subsidizing the purchase of such an appliance, like a HP water heater - actually getting a return on investment in the US isn't feasible yet.

BUT it was the exact same in the EU. HP dryers were a niche thing for about 10 years. They were slower, not that much cheaper to run and pretty pricey.
Then they slowly caught on in all regards. Then a "cheap" HP dryer was the same as an expensive normal dryer.
And then within like 3 release cycles, there was just basically no reason not to go HP.

As Douglas Adams wrote:
The first phase is characterized by the the question "How can we eat?", the second by the question "Why do we eat?" and the third by the question "Where shall we all have lunch".
You first try to exist at all, then you optimize, then you gold plate.


Post# 1195879 , Reply# 7   12/23/2023 at 04:49 by Logixx (Germany)        

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The WashTower has a Prepare-to-Dry option that will kick on the compressor when the washer below is nearing the end of the cycle. That's another way to shorten drying time.

Post# 1195886 , Reply# 8   12/23/2023 at 08:05 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Wouldn't be surprised that LGs connectivity solution will offer such a feature. Of course only works if you move the laundry in time.

Post# 1195912 , Reply# 9   12/23/2023 at 12:38 by Ragnboneman (Ontario)        

Did anyone ever see or contemplate a heat exchange drier that uses a simpler counter flow exchange to recover some of the exhaust heat?

You would still need an electric element, but if you only were able to extract 50% of the exhaust heat once the machine is up to temperature thats 50% less wasted hydro...


Just a thought, I never seen such a thing so I have to ask if its ever been done or talked about.


Post# 1195914 , Reply# 10   12/23/2023 at 12:46 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Many industrial dryers either have a form air recycling or (on larger, tunnel washer pairing size dryers) actually have heat recovery systems.

Issue is that you will have condensation - so you have to deal with that.
Then you have the issue of fluff build up.
Then you need sufficient heat exchange surface - so with a 5kW dryer, that's a bunch.

Saying: If you go through all of that, you might aswell just go heatpump.
The reason the US never had any more efficient dryers was because there was no reason to. Electricity is cheap, and usage wasn't an issue yet.


Post# 1195951 , Reply# 11   12/24/2023 at 06:59 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Clothes dryer efficiency in the US

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In the US we have natural gas heated dryers which are not only effective but very cheap to operate.

Cost per load was usually calculated in pennies, now days it’s just a few nickels and dimes.

With faster spinning washers now conventional vented gas and electric dryers will still be the norm where easy venting is possible for the foreseeable future especially where natural gas is available however heat pump dryers will get very popular quickly where venting is difficult and electricity costs are high.

John


Post# 1195953 , Reply# 12   12/24/2023 at 07:51 by marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Dublin)        

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In Palm Springs, California we pay around $0.07/kWh for natural gas and around $0.42/kWh for electricity. We are on a tiered rate and the prices I quoted are for the higher tier, which we always end up in. So, considering our electricity is around 6x the price of gas, it doesn’t make sense to switch from a simple, fast and very effective gas dryer to a more complex and costly heat pump dryer that would cost two or three times as much to run. And electricity generation in the US is still producing lots of CO2. Of course this will presumably change and then electricity will be all from renewables and everything will be powered by electricity. But we’re certainly not there yet.

Using a heat pump instead of gas for drying laundry, heating water and heating your home makes much more sense in other US states and some other countries.

If I lived somewhere with no gas and an electric water heater, I would definitely change it to a heat pump water heater.


Post# 1195969 , Reply# 13   12/24/2023 at 11:39 by me (Essex, UK)        

Gas tumble dryers never caught on in the UK, they were expensive to buy, and expensive to install, as it needed a gas safe/corgi gas engineer to run the pipe and connect it up, plus they should have an annual gas safety check. And of course you'd need a vent hole knocked through the wall, which can't be too close to an opening window, whereas a conventional condenser dryer is cheap to buy, can go anywhere and just needs plugging in.

There were also very few shop selling them them and never much choice. The only remaining manufacturer in the UK stopped selling them a few years ago.

Then there is the economy 7 electricity tariff, which offers cheap off-peak electricity overnight (and used to be much cheaper than standard rate than it is now).

I think when I looked into it, which was before heat pump dryers were available, I worked out that a conventional (electrically heated) condenser, or vented dryer wouldn't cost much more to run on cheap rate E7 overnight than a gas dryer. But, if you ran the dryer during the day, a gas one would be around a third the running cost.

I think in the UK, it makes little sense to buy anything but a heat pump dryer now, unless you need to have it in an unheated outbuilding as they don't work well at low temperatures.



Post# 1195974 , Reply# 14   12/24/2023 at 13:42 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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Miele sold a gas dryer for a while, the T478G. It was quite a bit more expensive than the electric vented models. And then you needed a gas line indeed. It wasn’t very popular and they didn’t bring out another model on the market. You can still find them second hand, not many takers though.

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 6         View Full Size
Post# 1195994 , Reply# 15   12/24/2023 at 22:44 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Miele sold a gas dryer here in USA a first IIRC. It was other half of much anticipated and hyped uber sized Miele washers (4xxx) series.

Sadly like the washers on average owners of those large gas dryers from Miele had their share of issues. As with washers Miele discontinued those gas dryers and hasn't bothered again since.

us.mieleusa.com/MieleMedia/docs/...

www.amazon.com/Miele-T982...

In end US government launched a recall of some Miele gas dryers due to potential fire hazard.

www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2008...


Post# 1196011 , Reply# 16   12/25/2023 at 09:07 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

I don't think this specific generation of HP dryers will rival gas dryers.

Gas dryers WILL go away in the next 30 odd years with all likelihood. People keep talking about hydrogen as an alternative, but looking at the requirements and cost, that probably still won't be a cost competitive option.
And burning natural gas is a CO2 emitter, so it will have to be phased out.

Gas dryers run on a 120V supply, so a good drop in replacement would just use that.
And a 120V heatpump dryer could be reasonably fast.
A 1200W heatpump could effectively deliver 4kW equivalent heating power AND run off of 120V. With a drum and fan motor you could get in under 1500W.



However, the efficiency legislature in the US requires some drying time maximum (80 or 90min I think?) for a rating load.
Changing that to something like 2h would certainly be enough for the 120V heatpump dryer to succeed.

Give it a few more years and these things will just be a normality.


Post# 1196016 , Reply# 17   12/25/2023 at 12:06 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Gas dryers and climate change

combo52's profile picture
Gas clothes dryers will likely be the last gas, Appliance ever phased out, because it’s the only gas appliance that’s 100% efficient, the thing that will phase out gas dryers is the switch to all electric dwellings, which of course will cause gas dryer not to be an option anymore.

It’s very doubtful that the lever be a hydrogen powered closed dryer for home use it just simply doesn’t cost that much to dry clothing with either a heat pump, dryer, or a gas dryer that they would likely ever go to the father, even hydrogen for vehicles is ridiculous. It’s only being pushed by the Hydrogen lobby.

Miele appliances in general in the US have been far less than great reliability some of their dishwashers and compact washers and dryers have not been too bad, but everything else they’ve gotten their hands into such as built-in refrigerators, full size, laundry, and cooking appliances have been pretty awful in reliability. It’s the type of appliance you buy if you have money to burn like an exotic European car.


Post# 1196854 , Reply# 18   1/10/2024 at 06:10 by Logixx (Germany)        

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The drum design is certainly unique.

  View Full Size
Post# 1196856 , Reply# 19   1/10/2024 at 06:30 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
LG heat pump dryer drum

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Hi Alexander, what do you find interesting about the dryer drum in this LG dryer?


John


Post# 1202745 , Reply# 20   4/4/2024 at 07:07 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

So, apparently we'll be getting a tear down of that thing soon!

(Link is to a short by Bens Appliances and Junk, you can just check his channel too.)


CLICK HERE TO GO TO henene4's LINK


Post# 1202983 , Reply# 21   4/8/2024 at 06:21 by Mrlaundry1011 (South Wales, UK)        

I thought the direct drive might have been a misprint for the dryers but seems not:

  View Full Size
Post# 1202989 , Reply# 22   4/8/2024 at 07:43 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

I don't know if anybody watched Ben's entire life steam, but from what I saw skipping through, I didn't see it reverse.

Which I mean very few full size dryers do, but if you already have seperate drum and blower motors AND are using a full size 3-phase inverter motor for the drum - why not reverse?!?


Post# 1203014 , Reply# 23   4/8/2024 at 15:38 by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
I think I did see it reverse, but not very often.

Post# 1203020 , Reply# 24   4/8/2024 at 17:11 by Logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
I saw the stream but I can't recall it reversing - although I could have missed it. The Korean site says it has 6 Motion, deep-learning and all that marketing speech. Maybe it's like certain European dryers and only reverses on some cycles. The Samsung Bespoke does reverse and for quite a while actually.

I'm sure there are plenty of videos out there. The Samsung Combo has a lot of Korean videos out there - none of which seem to have subtitles available. :/ I've come across one US one which wasn't all that informative.


Post# 1203276 , Reply# 25   4/12/2024 at 03:18 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

So his first video is out:







Take aways from that:
It isn't terribly slow nor as fast as I would have wanted to be.
Especially the speed mode is somewhat disappointing.

It certainly is worth it's price for 1300$ IMO - you get SO MUCH MORE dryer that if you spend 1000$ on a normal LG dryer.

But I was somewhat surprised and have a theory.
Given the drying times for a given load size, the usage per time and that in the tear down, you see that there is almost more empty space than heat exchanger, I am almost 100% certain they just used the compressor and heat exchanger from the 24" system they're selling over here.
They just switched out the drive motor and added a process air fan.
Looking at the process air fan, it does look relatively tiny back in there, hinting at about the same airflow target as on the 24" model.
Given it's only 820W but still requires 240V hints majorly at them reusing most of the components and just repackaging them in a way.



Given how much energy it saves, as long as you aren't relying on running 10 loads in a day, I would give it a full recommendation.

The Samsung equivalent might be more fit for your situation if you require ultra fast drying times since that apparently adds a 1400W heater into the mix to kick-start drying at the cost of a bit of efficiency and complexity.

But this is certainly a very good starting point IMO.


Post# 1203277 , Reply# 26   4/12/2024 at 03:33 by Logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
Ha, I had just copied the link to the video to post it here!

My thoughts exactly when I saw the size of the heat exchanger. All that empty space in there was surprising. Good on LG for making the coils accessible. Would like to see the cleaning in action.

Didn't you say that Speed Mode on your 24" LG didn't make much of a difference?


Post# 1203281 , Reply# 27   4/12/2024 at 07:07 by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

When I had my LG dryer, it barely did, yes. Like 15min or so tops, similar to the full size according to the video.
Same with the VZug I have.

I do think though some of that is down to what loads you use it on.
If you have a partial load of pretty dry clothes, water evaporates slower compared to full size loads of damper clothing. Only so much surface area and only so much water to evaporate, so actually moving the water out of the clothing becomes the limiting factor.
Same principle as drying a single shirt or 5 take basically the same time to dry, or how towels need longer to dry even if they contain the same amount of water.
And on heavier loads, even on speed mode, the max power of that heat pump is something like 600W. While that translates to something like 1500W of cooling power, it's only 2100W of heating at a COE of 2.5 for cooling.
If it runs at lets say 400W on normal or Eco, that's 1600W of heating. So only like 500W difference.

I do think though that the heater in the Samsung will more easily speed up drying regardless of circumstances.
It just adds energy, so regardless of load size, regardless of surrounding temps, it just speeds up that time until the heat pump can effectively condense water.
And doing the same calculation at 400W HP input power and 2.5 COE, with a 1400W resistive heater, you still get to 3kW total input heat at the same cooling power.
So 900W more positive heating.


Post# 1203284 , Reply# 28   4/12/2024 at 07:57 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
New full-size LG heat pump dryer

combo52's profile picture
I watched the complete video and reply number 25. Interesting the guy did a little better this time but he still makes so many mistakes that it would drive you nuts if you didn’t know what you were seeing.

He constantly refers to regular dryers as a tumble dryer, but the heat pump dryer, of course is a tumble dryer and his wise crack at the end saying that Biden wants to ban tumble dryers certainly stupid.

Not sure why the manufactures are building these low power consumption dryers and requiring a 30 amp 10 gauge circuit to connect to, as we go more electric with buildings, it’s a huge waste of copper to put these heavy circuits in for something that’s drawing less than 1000 W. And worldwide copper prices are already very high because of the heavy demand for more copper as we make more electric cars and all electric homes.

I think the most impressive thing about this LG dryer is the direct drive system and they do seem to figured out the filtering system pretty well so that the evaporator and condenser won’t become so clogged up. It will be interesting to see how these hold up over many years.

His comment expecting these things only last 12 years is ridiculous, a dryer like this with a refrigeration system should easily last 20 to 30 years of normal use.

The operating cost is certainly reasonable. It’s almost down to the cost of running a gas dryer.

John


Post# 1204124 , Reply# 29   4/26/2024 at 15:39 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
normal dryer sounds

How will this dryer sound? Will it sound normal?


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