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Thread Number: 95118
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
hey speed queen fans |
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| Post# 1197695 1/22/2024 at 16:18 by dominic20 (Souix falls) | ||
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| Post# 1197706 , Reply# 1 1/22/2024 at 18:25 by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD) | ||
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the TR,,, there are a couple members that like their TR machines :) When I find a used TR for sale I a going to buy it and try it out-wash action looks similar to my GE Hydrowave and that thing washes good. | ||
| Post# 1197714 , Reply# 2 1/22/2024 at 20:23 by qsd-dan (West) | ||
The TR series work "ok" for very lightly soiled laundry, just don't put anything in there that comes off of a blue collar worker. Personally, I think they're a waste of water, just get a front loader and save money on water and detergent.
From a tech on a another forum, the control boards have a high failure rate specifically on the TR7 models. The other TR models have failure rates here and there but it's pretty bad on the TR7's for whatever reason. He also mentioned about decent failure rates on the FF7 models as well. I'll stick to my tried and true old fashioned mechanical timers with proven rock solid durability. I've had 12 NOS 806 timers just begging for attention the last 15-ish years and not one of them has failed yet. Not even a damn timer motor. Maybe one day, lol. | ||
Post# 1197715 , Reply# 3 1/22/2024 at 21:17 by chetlaham  (United States) |
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Dan, tell it like it is. All the modernists on here keep reiterating that electronics last longer since they lack moving parts however the real world is presenting much the opposite. Nobody can convince me that en mass quality electronic controls will outlast an old style Singer or Kingston timer. Perhaps early failures are acceptable for disposal washers, but not for washer that are intended to last.
IMO the best Speed Queens are those with EM timers minus the AWN-542 that packed way to many complex increments on a single drum. EM timer gives longevity and cycle control while the TC design pulls clothes around cleaning them to perfecting. The TR series are glorified power soakers. If I was washing lace/curtains/knits daily I'd go for the TR (like the handwash cycle isn't gentle on my AWN412) however for everything else the TR just wouldn't do it. There is also the issue with time on the TR series, the cycle is just to long. And the drains are neutral which is just yuck. | ||
| Post# 1197717 , Reply# 4 1/22/2024 at 22:13 by panasonicvac (Northern Utah) | ||
They won't go anywhere
Not anytime soon. Welcome to the new era of energy regulations we have going on across the globe, this was why the TR series was created in the first place. I disagree that the TC5 is their best model, they use WAY more water and electricity plus smaller capacity than their FF7. I've used a TR7 before, I like it but I agree with Dan that they use too much water for my taste.
I'm not surprised to hear of how many problems the TR series has especially the FF7. When I had my LG front loader repaired, the technician said he'd still recommend LG over SQ since that's why we bought the set in the first place was because of his recommendation. He even told me that sometime after the TR series came out, SQ got fined for false advertisement of the "commercial grade" claim. I also wouldn't be surprised if that was in fact true. If I had to get a SQ today, I'd prefer the older mechanical or electronic commercial front load models with less bells and whistles in the circuitry like the LWNE22SP115TW01. | ||
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Post# 1197719 , Reply# 5 1/22/2024 at 22:29 by RyneR1988 (Indianapolis) |
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Speed Queen TC5 and capacity issues
Since when is 3.2 cu. ft. capacity tiny? Wasn't that super capacity plus on many machines not but 15 years ago?
My old direct drive Whirlpool was 3.2 cu. ft. and I never had problems doing what I would consider large loads. What on Gawd's earth are people washing that they need much bigger than this? Just never understood the hangup on capacity these days. Not that I think Speed Queen is the end all, be all of washing machines or anything, because I don't for a few reasons. Just don't understand why they get dinged all the time for their apparent lack of capacity, when 3.2 cu. ft. was the gold standard not too many years ago. Ryne | ||
| Post# 1197721 , Reply# 6 1/22/2024 at 23:09 by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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I believe the large tub direct drive washers are bigger than 3.2 cu ft. 3.5?
"What on Gawd's earth are people washing that they need much bigger than this?" Throwing their entire wardrobe into the washer and washing it in cold water. 2 days ago, I was visiting my brother and noticed different sounds coming from their laundry room. I asked if he got a new washer and he said yes. It's one of those impeller nightmares (GE). He takes his kids overflowing hamper (3 girls that like to change clothes up to 2-3 times a day for some reason) and dumps the whole thing into the washer, adds liquid detergent, selects cold wash, and walks away 😳 That nasty contraption will be a stinky disaster in no time. Being a used washer (with matching dryer) maybe I should take bets to see what occurs first, moldy aroma or total failure. | ||
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Post# 1197723 , Reply# 7 1/22/2024 at 23:21 by chetlaham (United States) |
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Truth is | ||
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Post# 1197729 , Reply# 8 1/23/2024 at 01:09 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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 I'm thinking 27" direct-drives are all physically the same size tub and basket. Perhaps John can confirm or deny. I've noticed that the maximum fill level seems to be a smidgen higher on some models ... slightly above the softener drain ports vs. below them. Don't know if that's deliberate or variations in pressure switch accuracy. Agitator differences also allow marketing to claim larger loads can be handled even if the basket size isn't changed. I have saved images of a 2007 Kenmore brochure that NorgeChef shared a couple years ago. Several models are all stated as 3.2 cu ft ... with different agitators and increasing descriptions of Super Capacity, Super Capacity Plus, and King Size Capacity, with escalating claims of cleans 11 bath towels, 14 bath towels, 16 bath towels, 17 bath towels, 18 bath towels. | ||
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Post# 1197735 , Reply# 9 1/23/2024 at 06:16 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Speed Queen control board failures Are almost nonexistent we haven’t changed any boards in TR seven models or in any front load machine in the last several years, Speed Queen did have a well publicized problem with motor boards on the front load machines about eight years ago that lasted a couple years that they corrected and about three years ago. They went to a completely different board and motor of which I’ve seen zero failures with, again the parts aren’t even in stock so they’re obviously not using many. Speed Queen has gone to a very strict policy on replacing boards because they know technicians sometimes like to blame things they don’t understand now you have to prove the board is bad take pictures of it pictures of the model number and you have to ship it back to Speed Queen if they ask for it back, they know the failure rate is so low and yet some technicians try to change things trying to solve problems that don’t exist or it’s a customer expectation or some other problems that they can’t explain.
If you look at the parts stocking for Tribbles, which is all up and down the East Coast they don’t even have boards in stock for most Speed Queens for the most part It’s not just us that are not seeing failures by any measure they’re far more reliable than when they were selling machines with timers, we were changing timers, quite often even in warranty.
Hi Alex, when someone tells you something ridiculous like Speed Queen was sued and had to pay out because the machines weren’t really commercial you should question it before you repost it as it’s BS.
Hi Chet, you’re talking about reliability of timers and you cite the two worst timers ever Kingston and singer. Mallory Timers were far better throughout automatic Washer history you just make up stuff you should do a little research before you just post things.
John This post was last edited 01/23/2024 at 11:09 | ||
| Post# 1197744 , Reply# 10 1/23/2024 at 09:47 by Repairguy (Danbury, Texas) | ||
I picked up a top of the line 2017 9 series top loader that was purchased in June 2018. The washer got a little noisy on agitation and a tech told them it probably needed a transmission. The folks were really in to speed queen and replaced it with a TC5. Turns out all it needed was an idler pulley that was noisy. The machine worked just fine just made a little noise during the wash cycle. Techs like this give a bad name to the service industry so you have to be careful of what one says on the internet. There are a lot of these types that claim to have many years experience but unfortunately are not good at what they do.
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Post# 1197750 , Reply# 11 1/23/2024 at 11:53 by RyneR1988 (Indianapolis) |
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Reply #6: Yeah that sounds about right when it comes to the way most people wash clothes. that machine sounds like garbage, impeller washers really are the worst choice in my opinion and I bet he doesn't load it right either. It's well known that you're supposed to load an impeller machine around the sides like there's an agitator there even though there isn't, but most people just dump everything in the middle and then gripe nonstop about the machine's lack of performance. People believe impeller washers are the middle ground, a perfect compromise between agitator TL's and FL's but really they bring the worst of both worlds not the best. I wish your brother luck on that horror of a contraption.
Reply #7: I honestly have never understood why people hate doing laundry so much. Really, it's one of the easiest chores in the house to do because the machine performs most of the work for you. You can literally do whatever the heck else you want while the washer is running. Same goes with dishes if you have a DW, so don't understand that one either. Sure these are still chores so not what I would call fun but there are much worse chores to do that really suck in my opinion, like cleaning the bathroom. Ugh. Reply #8: I think you're right in that all direct drive washers had the same size tubs but the agitator designs made a difference in how the machines performed. When I had mine, my average towels loads consisted of 10 standard size bath towels, plus the weeks worth of dishtowels, washcloths and such. Filled the thing very full but wasn't packed in. I miss that machine but contrary to what a lot of people feel on here, I actually do really like my new VMW TL. Perhaps John is right on one thing in that I over-reacted about the leaking oil from the transmission on the DD, but it really freaked Stacye out and she's long been begging me to get a new machine anyway, so I did. | ||
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Post# 1197754 , Reply# 12 1/23/2024 at 12:35 by chetlaham (United States) |
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Singer and Kingston Timers
You choose to ignore all the GE/Hotpoint Dishwashers and Clothes Washers from the 80s with Singer timers that still go on to this day. All the Maytag DC washers that have never required a timer replacement. As a whole the reliability was excellent. Worst timers (way worse) were 90s/2000s Eaton, Siebe and Invensys if you ask me, those got many Potscubbers junked and failed early in a lot of other appliances.
Difficult to convince me that a perfectly functioning 35 year old heavily rusted, calcified, lime caked, pitted Singer timer out of a Porcelain Hotpoint is an unreliable timer. Yes the AWN542s had a batch of bad timers but honestly I predicted that before it happened. To many short degree increments trying to double change a half dozen contacts... it was bound to cause problems under reasonable manufacturing tolernaces. Which takes me to the TC series. An EM model would be more than welcomed by consumers and repair techs. @Repairguy: Experience by itself means nothing and to me its cringe when someone repeatedly boasts about it. Not to bash an industry as a whole but in a lot of places anyone can become a service tech. There is no well established college or schooling system, academy, accreditation, required course work, annual re-training, apprenticeship, testing, certification, recertification, licensing, state registration, organization ect as say compared to a medical doctor, electrician or professional engineer. Things like gaps in say mechanical or electrical theory can and do fall through the cracks in practice. Yes such a lax system can let talented stars shine, but with it also comes with the less than stellar ones going uneducated. However, on the other hand, in defense of all techs, electronics add complexity to each machine. An obscure or intermittent failure mode is much harder to diagnose, touch, see, feel, smell, measure, ect, ect. Car and diesel techs at least have a diagnostic laptop... | ||
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Post# 1197772 , Reply# 13 1/23/2024 at 15:16 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Electronic controls almost never | ||
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Post# 1197774 , Reply# 14 1/23/2024 at 15:25 by chetlaham (United States) |
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They’re usually either bad or good
Or burn your house down. Electronic boards and their connections have been behind many, many recalls, lawsuits and have gotten the code to essentially mandate GFCI and/or AFCI protection on all new appliance circuits. Code reps working for GE have openly admitted this is an acceptable failure mode for modern appliances.
EM Molex connector blocks rarely do that. Me personally I'll take a Kingston or Mallory timer with Spade Connectors. | ||
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Post# 1197777 , Reply# 16 1/23/2024 at 16:09 by chetlaham (United States) |
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Reply 13
IMO not so black and white. In 2012 I had a new Maytag dishwashers where the soap door would open at the beginning of the cycle (prewash fill) instead of the main wash. I had a tech from a local appliance store confirm that was indeed happening and after contacting a few numbers (said he had to prove the board was bad) he was able to get a new main board which fixed the problem.
Also, on my new Maytag the blue indicator light goes out during the thermal hold in the last rinse before lighting blue at the end of the drain, then red in dry then white when finished. the light should be on the whole cycle, even in the thermal hold. Call me assuming the worst but my honest opinion is that some electronic controls do end up leaving the factory with programming errors, faulty code, obscure logic failures and feedback glitches. Sometimes it effects performance, sometimes it causes error codes other times it goes unnoticed or deemed normal when programmers had not intended it. To me its a given with the shear amount of logic complexity required in modern controls. In an EM timer there is no chance- the cycle is literally indented into plastic. One can observe if the sequence is right and design the timer so that as one connect hits the top of the ramp another can now fall into its new indent and this can be verified both visually and electrically. John, I encourage you to take a GSD500D-03AW / 129D9177P13 / WD21X574 timer and watch it run. You can see how well thought out the sequencing is. Switches ramp out fully before another is allowed to close- all while waiting for one safety margin to finish while another is allowed to set in. There is a lot of room for deviation yet the sequence is always perfect and always measurable. Please try it :) | ||
| Post# 1197786 , Reply# 17 1/23/2024 at 17:48 by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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Stop wasting your time Chet, it isn't worth the effort.
The Singer timer on my KDS-18 dishwasher still works 47 years later. The original owner was a homemaker with a very large family and she ran it 2 times a day every day for over 35 years without a single repair to the timer or anything else on that machine. I found detergent dispensers leaking at the o-ring seals while testing it with the front cover off. Less than 50 cents and a little time to swap them out, everything was functioning as intended. The timer motor is noisy as hell but keeps on trucking. I have 3 spare NOS timers for it and I'll probably replace one in my lifetime, if that. Out of my entire collection, more than 85 percent of the timers are Kingston and I only had to replace the timer motor on the 906 I acquired which was dead when I got it. $12 from Ebay and a few minutes later it was up and running. Not bad for 40 years years and I could still get that timer motor back then for about $35 if I went to a parts store. Will the typical modern control board work 40 years later of daily service? NO! Will a new one be available 40 years later? HELL NO! As far as Mallory timers go, the one on my '67 806 has one. Upon saving the machine from the crusher, I replaced the belts, spring/rollers (rollers completely disintegrated) on the motor carriage and damper pads (dry and one ripped off), also replaced the tub to pump hose as the original was petrified. After getting everything together, I put the machine into the house as a daily driver to test as well as tune the suspension springs. Around the 6th or 7th load, the timer motor stopped advancing. I removed the timer, disassembled the timer motor and escapement and discovered the grease had hardened in both units. Cleaned and regreased everything, slapped it back together and it began working again. This is on a VERY low use machine that was in a vacation cabin. While Mallory timers are well made, they're not completely immune to problems. As far as control boards either working or not is a load of fucking bullshit. I've diagnosed broken traces that work when cold and fail when hot as well as visa-versa. Same with cold solder joints. I've diagnosed bad transistors, IC chips, and other electrical components using freeze spray, making them alternately work or die right on the spot. Worn or damaged membranes sporadically working. There's a hell of a lot more to go wrong on control boards than a mechanical timer. | ||
| Post# 1197795 , Reply# 18 1/23/2024 at 20:20 by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
I agree with Dan. While electronics can be reliable since there’s no moving parts, they will degrade with time. While the Maytag electronic dry control was probably the simplest sort of control board on any appliance, they too will eventually degrade with time. Everything may appear to look fine, but the values of everything have either gone up or down.
For example, some people replace a points ignition system with a electronic ignition system on classic cars, while the electronic ignition system will be reliable if you were to put a lot of miles on on a short amount of time, but if the car isn’t being used all that often, the components inside the distributor will degrade with time. One day, you may take the car out to find out it just quits and the culprit will because some component failed without warning, points usually give warning signs something is off or something may happen. Same thing with the Holley Sniper EFI, will work great but could all of a sudden fail without any sort of warning. Carburetors can be a little temperamental, but usually can provide many years of faithful service as long as they get clean fuel and everything is set and adjusted properly, on top of knowing what the starting procedure is on a cold day. | ||
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Post# 1197797 , Reply# 19 1/23/2024 at 20:33 by chetlaham (United States) |
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And let the site become a modernist echo chamber full of mendacious conjecture? No way. Where the veracity of information is in question it should never go ignored. Rather false statements should be rebutted with facts, evidence, reasoning, physics and scientific data. It is the only way forward.
Where posts aim to paint vintage appliances or the engineering behind their success in a bad light I will challenge it. Otherwise is to let the downfall of the appliance industry chug along. The TC series selling is the last bastion of hope- proof that there are at least some out there who are are aware and want their tried and true washers back in the laundry room. | ||
| Post# 1197806 , Reply# 20 1/23/2024 at 22:40 by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
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Post# 1197814 , Reply# 21 1/24/2024 at 02:47 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA) |
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Speed Queen Classic I prefer the Speed Queen Classic. I like real rollover and dirt scrubbed out of my sturdy cottons by agitation. | ||
| Post# 1197901 , Reply# 22 1/25/2024 at 16:17 by dominic20 (Souix falls) | ||
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just to let you know | ||
| Post# 1198345 , Reply# 24 1/31/2024 at 13:57 by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan) | ||
I can speak for this because my family does have a TR model. Not very satisfied with it, but it’s not the worst either…cleaning is a bit poor for the type of soils that occur in our household. For instance, imagine a white sock with regular dirt on the bottom, my direct drive whirlpool has no problem getting all that brown dirt out in a cycle but I’ve noticed with this SQ it removes maybe half the dirt instead of all of it, because there is no strong agitation to scrub the fabrics, just swishing back and fourth thru the water which doesn’t really do much for heavier soils and this should be highlighted by speed queen, they need to stop lying to their consumers and tell them the truth that this machine is best for lighter soils, I’ve done test after test and it’s just disappointing as I thought this machine would be a lot better than it is when our family first got it. It does great on minimal soil levels and does a great job at rinsing the clothing, I really like how it does the classic spray rinse in the first spin out rather than the final spin as SQ has always done I believe. This machine is great for people that don’t get too dirty, people that work office jobs or something to that extent where they are not getting their clothes dirty and the fabrics just need a dunk and rinse. I didn’t buy this machine my family did, so it was not very preventable. I don’t like the way the tub is balanced either, and the lid lock is unnecessary and will cause issues down the way. It’s not their best product which is a fact. This machine is too quiet for me, I wanna hear a nice transmission running during agitation and like to hear a strong agitation going on, that’s just what I’m used to. The drain pump is very loud on this washer as well, almost as loud as our 1994 Roper DD which was a beast and could be heard thru out the whole house, but this doesn’t bother me at all and I like the sounds of it. It’s not the worst machine made in recent times, but not the best either, it’s unique in its own way and will clean fabrics with minimal soils, takes a bit more effort for anything beyond that, it’s just not for us but would be perfect for someone else in a different situation. Overall, we don’t hate it but it’s just not our favorite is all. It just makes me miss our old Roper we had down there until about 2007. Glad I still own a direct drive at my personal residence, no lid lock or sensors to drive me crazy. I will say, this speed Queen is 10 times better than the piece of crap Cabrio we had before this and uses a full tub of water if you’d like and I do enjoy using this machine regardless of the fact that it’s not my favorite kind of washer. Always pick the washer that fits your soil levels and preferences, we all have different needs and preferences, unfortunately my family got this machine without doing any research on it first.
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Post# 1198396 , Reply# 26 2/1/2024 at 17:30 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA) |
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heavy duty cycle I'd use the heavy duty cycle at all times. | ||
| Post# 1198485 , Reply# 28 2/3/2024 at 08:42 by dominic20 (Souix falls) | ||
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new | ||
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