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Thread Number: 95119
/ Tag: Vintage Dishwashers
Can you identify this KA dishwasher? |
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Post# 1197718 1/22/2024 at 22:23 (427 days old) by marky_mark  (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Madrid) |
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 I saw this on MarketPlace and I was wondering if it's possible to tell for sure what model it is.
Is it a 23 series with the PowerClean pump? Does it circulate while heating? Or do we need to see inside to be sure?
Mark
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Post# 1197793 , Reply# 1 1/23/2024 at 18:51 (427 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) |
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Imperial model?
Looks like a model below my 1990 Kitchenaid Superba. Model and serial numbers will tell for sure.
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Post# 1197861 , Reply# 2 1/25/2024 at 00:34 (425 days old) by marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Madrid) |
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Post# 1197862 , Reply# 3 1/25/2024 at 01:13 (425 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) |
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KUDS22 | ||
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Post# 1198008 , Reply# 4 1/26/2024 at 19:32 (424 days old) by marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Madrid) |
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Thanks for the link, Jon. I do now remember reading your thread back when you posted it.
The seller has just sent a photo. It's a KUDP220T4, so yes it's a model below Jon's.
I currently have a KDS-18 and I used to have a KDS-19.
Are the 22's cycles and water heating pauses similar to the ones on the 19? I know the 22 only does a purge and one rinse. Hum.
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Post# 1198010 , Reply# 5 1/26/2024 at 20:06 (424 days old) by marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Madrid) |
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I've just found the user manual online and it gives cycle descriptions/stages. I can't find an exact cycle tech sheet. But it seems that this Patrician model is definitely a step down from the Superba model that Jon has. I think I'll stick with my KDS-18!
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Post# 1198012 , Reply# 6 1/26/2024 at 20:23 (424 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 1198015 , Reply# 7 1/26/2024 at 20:35 (424 days old) by marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Madrid) |
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Hi Bob. Thanks, I had wondered when the Patrician debuted. I have the service manual for my 18 series. I've just had a look at the KDP cycles, which I'd never read before. It would seem that there is no water heating at all in the KDP (that surprises me). It also looks like the cycles wouldn't clean as well, especially the KDP-18's Soak'N Wash versus my KDS-18's Soak'N Scrub, as the Superba's S&S cycle is longer and does plenty of heating. This is important to me. I would definitely go for the KDS-18 over the KDP-18 for the cycles and heating if not for the racking too. | ||
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Post# 1198027 , Reply# 8 1/26/2024 at 23:39 (423 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 1198029 , Reply# 9 1/27/2024 at 00:13 (423 days old) by marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Madrid) |
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Wow Bob, until tonight, I never knew that non-Superba 18 models didn't heat the water. I'm in shock LOL.
Yes my Superba model heats the water almost all throughout the first and second prewashes, while it is spraying and also while it dwells twice during the first prewash (4.5 minutes each time) and twice during the second prewash (3 minutes each time). Results are excellent. | ||
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Post# 1198066 , Reply# 10 1/27/2024 at 12:05 (423 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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KitchenAid KDS 18 soak n scrub cycle
I never could figure out why they designed it the way they did other than the fact that they already had dishwashers that had a so-called soak cycle on them.
It would’ve worked far better if they had left the pump running and the heat on until they reach the 140° like whirlpool did. Even with the two or three heating periods the dishes never got up to 140° because it only heated the water in the sump and the total washing time with the motor running was less than 10 minutes compared to the 30 minutes you would get on the whirlpool super scour cycle When the 18 first came out I remember running warranty calls where people were disappointed with the cleaning ability of that cycle. One guy had put layer cake pans in it and it didn’t take the stuff off, when I saw the results and I knew that my whirlpool dishwasher would’ve easily cleaned them but of course I was representing KitchenAid and I couldn’t tell him that After Whirlpool bought KitchenAid, we had quite a few customers where we had to take up new Suburba away because of disappointing cleaning results on the 21 and 22 machines and give them a whirlpool dishwasher to satisfy them . | ||
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Post# 1198078 , Reply# 11 1/27/2024 at 16:29 (423 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) |
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Manufacture date | ||
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Post# 1198079 , Reply# 12 1/27/2024 at 17:00 (423 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD) |
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If you have an 18 stick with it. Other than the bigger upper wash arm that came after the 18s, they are the best. | ||
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Post# 1198105 , Reply# 13 1/27/2024 at 22:57 (422 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) |
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KUDS22
TBH, my machine does better than I expected. I don’t prerinse and the only stuff I’ve ever had to rewash have been things like stuck on fried egg on a pan and some melted cheese on a fork. Even without the second final rinse things clean up nicely. It was an NOS machine so I was gonna use it regardless!
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Post# 1198108 , Reply# 14 1/28/2024 at 00:19 (422 days old) by marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Madrid) |
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Yes the KDS-18 has no thermostatic timer hold, except for the sani rinse, which is static heated to 180 ºF with its 1,400-Watt heating power and then the circulation temp ends up being around 70 ºC / 158 ºF in my tests. That's hotter than my WP PowerClean, which typically heats the final rinse to 145 ºF.
Regarding the Soak'N Scrub on the KDS-18, the total spraying time for the first two prewashes (excluding spraying while filling and soaking periods) is 25.5 minutes and the total heating time (700 Watts) is 28.5 minutes, which is similar to my PowerClean on Pots & Pans. And that is two separate prewashes in the KA, each with its own detergent dose. Then we have the 3rd prewash. In my case, I have insulated my machine and I have a hot water circulation pump, so every fill is immediately hot. My average hot water temp is 55 ºC / 130 ºF and I have a water softener. I find that the first prewash starts out at 40C/105F and reaches 53C/127F. The 2nd prewash starts around 53C/127F and reaches 63C/145F. The main wash is only 6 minutes and is a little cooler than the 2nd prewash.
Due to the THREE wash periods, each with their own detergent, combined with the powerful spray, I find the S&S cycle does an outstanding job and it also works great with Cascade Platinum pacs, which are too sudsy for some machines. Of course, different set ups will yield different results. The PowerClean is more consistent across a range of different installation situations and it will actually work just fine hooked up to cold water, assuming you choose water heating options and it will heat to the correct temp. The KDS-18 heating is based on time, not a thermostat, so its temps will vary wildly depending on the installation and it would be a disaster hooked up to cold water. I wish the KDS-18 Normal cycle main wash had a thermostatic hold, like the PowerClean does. I think it would be much better. And yes it would have been much better to have just run the pump the whole time while heating and to have a thermostatic hold for all heating periods. However, in my particular case, my KitchenAid seems to out-clean my PowerClean when set to the heaviest cycles with two doses of detergent in the PC and three in the KA. But the PowerClean has a better Normal wash than the KA.
Mark
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