Thread Number: 95314  /  Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
GE profile filter-flo
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Post# 1199565   2/17/2024 at 19:25 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        

What do we have here? Here's a video of a GE profile filter-flo. This is what they should've came up with.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO GELaundry4ever's LINK





Post# 1199578 , Reply# 1   2/17/2024 at 23:29 by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Like the older GE FF better than this one.Indexing tub,short ineffective agitator strokes and not much going on.The older rimflows were better,too.

Post# 1199597 , Reply# 2   2/18/2024 at 08:05 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
filter-flo

I like the older GE filter-flo too. If they were gonna "upgrade" their wash system, they should've used stainless steel tubs like Speed Queen Laundry did.

Post# 1199605 , Reply# 3   2/18/2024 at 10:41 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
A great step in the right direction however still needs a long stroke transmission, steal outter tub, stabilized suspension, ect.

The world needs more people like this, I admire him is passion like converting the motor from 110 to 220 volt operation:






If everyone was like me not one model T washer would have sold.


Post# 1199619 , Reply# 4   2/18/2024 at 13:33 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
GE filter-flo

How was he able to make a GE filter-flo out of this? I wish GE did something similar right from the beginning. But, who am I to tell them what to do?

Post# 1199625 , Reply# 5   2/18/2024 at 14:45 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
My guess is a T connector, second Hanny pump, hoses, filter flo flume, and wiring configured to energize the pump motor when the motor run and motor agitate direction relay is engage.


GE should have kept the FF concept, but sadly people just don't seem to care.


Post# 1199627 , Reply# 6   2/18/2024 at 15:51 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
people too stupid

I agree with you completely. However, people are too stupid to understand how a washer works. Look at all the lint problems being plagued today. I wish GE would go back to this. Maybe I'm too stupid to say that these washers were ruined after the filter-flo. Am I or am I not? The filter-flo was the solution. They (GE) must think I'm stupid for saying that.

Post# 1199634 , Reply# 7   2/18/2024 at 16:58 by chetlaham (United States)        

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The model T was a business shareholder solution, not a customer solution. Filter Flo was simply about profit, having executives take what equity they could out of GE for their own retirement before the merde hit the fan. The plan was never to have GE perpetually remain #1.

Goal was to Build an ultra cheap washer that pretended to wash in order to get builders and landlords to hand over their cash while taking advantage of a once prestigious reputation.

If everyone was like me 1) not a single model T sale would have ever been secured by a home owner. 2) 40 million renters and new home buyers would refuse to pay their rent or mortgage where a post FF washers is discovered demanding the builder or landlord take it off the premise for another brand. 3) Growing protests would probably break out being the straw (or rather 100 mile wide asteroid) which broke the camels back in the durability downfall of the appliance industry as a whole.

The public at large may not sway GE directly, but when every builder and landlord (GE's primary customer base) begins demanding a resolution from GE, appliances offered by GE will undergo massive changes for the better. Executives, economists, governments and even psychologists would be mystified at how or why the simple introduction of a new washer model could bring about such a voracious revolution.

You're not stupid for thinking FFs were ruined. Having needs met including dignity is not about ego, rather having essential human rights fulfilled.


Post# 1199635 , Reply# 8   2/18/2024 at 17:05 by chetlaham (United States)        

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* Post Filter Flo (the model T) was simply about profit...


My bad in dropping the Post word.

Filter Flo was a good washers, yes they could have used some improvements, but what followed was just horrendous.











Post# 1199637 , Reply# 9   2/18/2024 at 17:11 by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        

maytag85's profile picture
Doesnít look like something GE offered from the factory new, but it is interesting though.

Post# 1199645 , Reply# 10   2/18/2024 at 18:26 by qsd-dan (West)        

qsd-dan's profile picture
Inventive way to mash a filter flo design into...what I believe, is a Hydrowave.

Makes me want to experiment with one of my Maytags. Dual filtering through both passive and powered methods is sort of enticing, even if overkill...


Post# 1199653 , Reply# 11   2/18/2024 at 21:11 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
assholes at GE and their shrieking sound

I bet the assholes at GE blamed the consumer for everything. Oh, don't even get me started about that shaking cabinet during agitation. I bet GE blamed us for their stupid design. And that awful noise was so disgusting and I bet GE blamed customers for "operator error". I've had a post filter-flo GE washer after the filter-flo which did a good job cleaning nevertheless. The machines that came after had a shrieking motor which ran constantly during normal agitation, whereas the previous washer had a smooth hum. I'd rather hear the clanking suspension during spin on a filter-flo than that stupid squeaking and sawing during agitation. Whirlpool should be pissed at GE for what they did. Stupid idiots!

Post# 1199656 , Reply# 12   2/18/2024 at 22:16 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
I know this: When I and my family would contact GE for parts in the 2000s their customer service bordered on social BDSM. You weren't even having the same conversation as them in any discussion. Something as simple as ordering a bake element "ok, we will need to schedule service for you then" when I tell them I just want to order a bake element they transfer me to the small appliance division. Call again parts division they tell me general division will first need to register my appliance. That division then refuses to acknowledge my order, then transfers me to finance. Call parts again they start telling me how self clean/ program the oven having nothing to do with anything I said. Call parts they immediately transfer to warranty. Call parts again they tell me my stove isn't registered and not under warranty when I didn't even mention the age or make of the oven lol. I told them I just need order a WB44X5099 bake element they transferred me again, and again. Each time they were either rude, dismissive or antagonistic. And all of them would have this tone of 'why are you wasting my time' When someone would admit to being wrong they would continue to remain pompous afterwards. And yes many of times they would literally start blaming me out of nowhere for any question or concern I had.

Clearly they were just being used as service decoys while trained to gaslight customers on the receiving end of corporate greed.


Sadly it didn't entirely stop at GE. When their appliances began dropping like flies the rental offices would literally put the blame on the tenants. It appeared that GE literally told management that tenants were at fault based on what maintenance would tell me and others. Like putting dishes dirty in the dishwashers wasn't what it was intended for and it would cause the seals to leak? LOL. Laundry wasn't meant to be used daily. Lower refrigerator shelf was meant for bread only. Until maintenance brought a seriously beefed up assmebly to replace the paper tin one that would crack down the middle. Office would say softener was behind dryer fires. Impossible for the handle to break of the micro. I remember being in the rental office when a lady called saying her replaced 1 month ago GE garbage disposal was dead again. Lady in the office asked the manager "sigh, what do I tell her?" Manager says they aren't coming back to fix it again, but to word it in such a way where she thinks they will drop by down the road. Tenants would often call GE service on their own terms to avoid to runaround with property management or them deducting security deposit.

It was not until 2010 that the property owners woke up and began placing Whirlpool appliances in the units. But not after tenants took blame for 10 years, wrote poor reviews about maintenance refusing to fix things and spending their own money.

I could go on, I won't lol.


Thanks for letting me rant and vent Jerome. GE truly wanted to wick up whatever they could from their past legacy.




Post# 1199657 , Reply# 13   2/18/2024 at 23:07 by qsd-dan (West)        

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"Clearly they were just being used as service decoys while trained to gaslight customers on the receiving end of corporate greed."

You can thank Jack Welch for that transition.

I see a lot of boomer bashing on the internet by millennials and gen z about modern day problems stemming from the past but the beginnings of it all from those in power went further back a generation or so (Jack Welch was NOT a boomer). The only thing I fault boomers is going along with the corrupt "system" that they were well aware of (and getting filthy rich in the making) instead of rebelling. Hopefully the younger generation will patch things up but I'm not holding my breath.


Post# 1199669 , Reply# 14   2/19/2024 at 07:58 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Interesting

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Iím guessing somebody added the filter flow system, this is a transmission washer not a Hydro wave machine. The tub does not index in these machines. It does jerk back-and-forth with the agitation but the tub never moves.

The filter flow system is not a very effective way of catching lint because the filter was moving. It just sifted the lint through the filter. The only thing you ever saw and it was pet hair, which is what led people to believe. They actually trapped a lot of pet hair.

The T model washers were a huge improvement for GE every customer that we had that got one loved it compared to the old machine that they had to chase around the laundry room because of vibration problems. They also love the fact that they didnít get the redeposited stuff on dark colored clothing, because of the neutral drain in the T models. The new T models did have some significant reliability problems however, the GE worked out over the next five years or so.

John


Post# 1199679 , Reply# 15   2/19/2024 at 11:15 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
chetlaham and others

Thank you for your time. Say what you need to say. Combo52, GE should've added the filter-flo to this lineup from the beginning. QSD Dan, I do blame Jack Welch for this wholeheartedly. He wanted filter-flo out of the pitcure because it was too god for customers.

Post# 1199686 , Reply# 16   2/19/2024 at 11:59 by chetlaham (United States)        

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Thank you Jerome for letting me speak, these things need to be said! I think Welch simply wanted the FF out of the picture because it took to much raw material to make and simply lasted way to long.


@Combo: IF you want a washer to stop walking across the floor put a milk stool suspension in it instead of hanging it off the cabinet. There is no suspension system that comes close to Speed Queen.


Post# 1199689 , Reply# 17   2/19/2024 at 13:04 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
The only top loaders that had a lot of walking problems were

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GE filter, flow washers, Maytag, dependable care washers, and the original unimatic washers

No modern washer with a suspended suspension system has walking problems that Iíve seen.

John



Post# 1199691 , Reply# 18   2/19/2024 at 13:16 by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area)        

Our Maytag never walked, but I made sure it was properly leveled, and the feet securely fastened. Neighbor Thelma had the 1969 GE for many years, and I never heard them say anything about it moving out of place. Only washer we had that walked was the 1955 Westinghouse Laundromat, which once went so far it unplugged itself.

Post# 1199694 , Reply# 19   2/19/2024 at 14:02 by washerlover (The Big Island, Hawaiíi)        

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Living in Hawai'i now without a clothes dryer is fine but I do miss my Filter-Flo and Wards burpalator for removing some lint..!

Post# 1199695 , Reply# 20   2/19/2024 at 14:21 by chetlaham (United States)        

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@GSD-Dan: I think it came from the way the silent generation raised their kids- through behaviorism and corporal means- children to be seen but not heard- amalgamated in a world with a booming post war economy.

Children are excellent observers but horrible interrupters. Raising children through punitive means creates adults who 1) believe that force or violence via an omniscient authority is a problem solving technique 2) believe that all human behavior is shaped by motivation- ie all human behavior and its outcomes are consciously chosen by an individual person through hedonism.

The post war economy and near unlimited freedom (back then) meant that people could earn their way to homes, cars, ect, have kids, learn, succeed, have leisure time and ultimately be happy through relatively easy effort with no boundaries or barriers in place when a sincere effort was exerted. The system worked very well for those who could.

Result of the two factors being that boomers assume that any and all downfalls in this world are of an individuals own doing and not that of a failing system, discrimination, inequality, disease, disability, poverty, lagging skills or any other factor beyond an individual humans control. People are misinterpreted as just being lazy or choosing a certain "lifestyle choice". Leading to those making such inferences to live in a self centered and self applied world view.

The solution to perceived world problems real or imagined is motivation and its science of applied behaviorism- a utopia through stimulus guided human behavior applied and determined by a central governing authority- which has directly influenced everything from economics, to business, to finance, to foreign policy, to education, to criminal justice, to psychology, to psychiatry, to medicine, to child development, to civics, to laws, to philosophy, to advertising, to culture, and absolutely everything in between.


Of course since this fundamental basis is pertinently wrong things either get worse or don't change.

End result being an entire generation and a society as a whole which assumes all observable outcomes besides their own are of an individuals own fault and that authority should never be questioned or challenged. Complete ignorance of civic duty which democracy was founded upon. Which is the epitome of ironic when freedom and dignity are what created all the prosperity civilization currently enjoys only to have the "greatest" minds of the boomer generation saying we must move beyond the very thing that gave them everything they have to live for.


Hence where we are today with GE.




Post# 1199697 , Reply# 21   2/19/2024 at 15:38 by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        
Reply #20

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To give you a heads up:: Itís QSD-DAN, not GSD-DAN.

Post# 1199699 , Reply# 22   2/19/2024 at 16:04 by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        

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Itís interesting when people claim that todayís problems are because of such and such age demographic or generation, the reality is the seeds for everything thatís going on today were planted a long, long time ago.

Sometimes, I think itís the Lost Generation and the generation that became before them (who knows what generation that was) that basically planted the seeds for the problems of the 21st century (I know, sort of contradicting myself a little). Since the Lost generation were horrible towards their silent generation, they didnít know any better and couldnít think for themselves. Then, the Silent generation started having kids of their own (raised gen x, though some of gen x had boomer parents) and unfortunately, repeated the mistakes their parents made. When Gen X started having kids of their own (my age demographic/generation), they decided enough is enough and were never going to be like their parents and would do all means necessary to protect their children from the dangers of the outside world and here we are.



Post# 1199700 , Reply# 23   2/19/2024 at 16:38 by Ultramatic (New York City)        
What G.E.?

ultramatic's profile picture

 

 

Good lord those hairy hands and arms!


Post# 1199716 , Reply# 24   2/19/2024 at 21:22 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
GE filter-flo transmissions and post filter-flo transmission

The transmissions on each model are vastly different. The old-style filter-flo had a beefy transmission whereas the new-style GE transmission was puny. I bet Jack Welch wanted the oil in the GE post filter-flo to be watered down so that the transmissions will leak quickly. I bet that it was so thin that the gears could shriek like their motors do. GE filter-flo washer oil was nice and thick so that the machine will run smoothly. Count on it! Somebody tell me I'm wrong! I bet that's also WHY their transmissions do that double knock during agitation where as the GE filter-flo didn't!

Post# 1199718 , Reply# 25   2/19/2024 at 21:26 by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

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CHETLATHAM:

 

A very ingenious assessment you have made on what's called Under New Management and as far as myself is concerned I don't have that option at my job to just resign or step down if ever make enough from what I do labouring for such companies...

 

(Or maybe in terms of what I am working for, that's a lot of doing without!)

 

 

 

-- Dave


Post# 1199723 , Reply# 26   2/19/2024 at 22:06 by chetlaham (United States)        

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@Sean- forgive me, that would be my mistake. A bit of a Freudian slip, my mind is still on those GSD-500 through GSD2800 Potscrubbers from the 80s. I still think about them so that sometimes comes out in unwanted ways. My apologies.


@Dave: Right, because you are the only one who would step down if you acted upon it. If everyone at once stepped down or peacefully protested pay and work conditions would improve for the better for everyone involved. One or two people can be dismissed, hundreds and thousands can not. Its works like this with everything. Everyone has a civic duty to preserve the rights of everyone else regardless of what government/management/ect say.

Anyway- my point is consumers let government, trends, consumer reports and manufacturers tell them what they ought to like, whats new, and what to buy. People are afraid to state or act on what they know to be incontrovertible deep down. If people shopped for no strings attached results instead of bling, we'd see the improvement of GE FF washers instead of its discontinuation.


I think all top load washers should recirculate that water through a filter. I know I would love to have that feature in my Speed Queen from when I leave tissues in a coat pocket or a comforter explodes lol. Yes I wash comforters in TLs :)




Post# 1199724 , Reply# 27   2/19/2024 at 22:11 by chetlaham (United States)        

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@Jerome: I think the double knock is from the agitate gears pushing against the transmission housing driving it in the opposite direction of each agitator stroke cause the brake to re-engage and knock. Of course with the whole assembly shaking back and forth that adds a lot of other noises as well.

Post# 1199773 , Reply# 28   2/20/2024 at 14:52 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
to chetlaham

That is what I suspect. I have a feeling that GE used a watered down gear oil to compensate for that stupid crappy tiny transmission, instead of mounting their massive transmission in the filter-flo to the transmission with the same gear oil atop the motor or put it underneath it.

Post# 1199774 , Reply# 29   2/20/2024 at 15:07 by chetlaham (United States)        

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I'd love to know what GE did to their oil, I'm rather clueless in that regard.  I agree GE should have either re-used or redesigned their transmission to be massive. Two improvements to the fitler flo would have been reducing the space between the inner and outer tubs and second bringing in a milk stool suspension like Speed Queen or Maytag Performa. GE could have purchased the Raytheon/Goodman design like Speed Queen did and improve the design to fix the seal/bearing problems.

 

You know, GE could have technically put the clutch and motor directly underneath the transmission making the ultimate Direct Drive design. That would have worked to but the cabinet might need to be a few inches taller to accommodate the pump and movement. 


Post# 1199782 , Reply# 30   2/20/2024 at 16:26 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
fast stroke

If GE was going to use their fast stroke agitation as they did, they should accommodate the transmission to have even larger and beefier gears to where it stands up to such forces and make the agitation longer strokes for maximum turnover. That's just me. They could've had the water flow all throughout the tub ring and lip to clean everything out, even the fabric softener dispenser. Yes, GE should've reused their gear oil from the filter-flo and put more additives to prevent gear rusting. Now think about how smooth the transmission would run.

Post# 1199815 , Reply# 31   2/20/2024 at 21:13 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

Bigger gears, bigger body, long stroke, 3/4 HP motor, fitler flo and spin-drain. That would have been an ideal re-design.  They also should have kept the clutch shoes instead of that weird fork.    


Post# 1199820 , Reply# 32   2/20/2024 at 23:17 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
strokes per minute

How many SPM during agitation? What about spin? How many RPM?

Post# 1199821 , Reply# 33   2/20/2024 at 23:41 by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        
GE T-Line Washer Speeds

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A service manual I have for the T washer line states 108 degrees arc of agitation stroke, 154 strokes per minute fast speed, 103 strokes per minute slow speed.

Spin is 630 RPM fast, 420 RPM slow.


Post# 1199834 , Reply# 34   2/21/2024 at 07:10 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
service manual

Does it mention what oil GE used in their transmissions in the service manual of the T models? I would assume a cheapened watered down oil instead of reusing the GE filter-flo gear oil that was once used.

Post# 1199839 , Reply# 35   2/21/2024 at 09:39 by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

Info on the transmission has no detail on lubrication other than that it contains 4 oz. of oil.† The gears are all steel, no plastic.† The transmission is replaced upon failure, it's not designed/intended to be opened for internal servicing.


Post# 1199841 , Reply# 36   2/21/2024 at 10:17 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
gear lubrication

I wish I knew what lubricant was used in their t models compared to the filter-flo system. I wonder if they used a better oil or if they reused the old lubricant, or just watered it down. I thought the transmission used 5.5 ounces of oil compared to the filter-flo that used 86.

Post# 1199842 , Reply# 37   2/21/2024 at 10:19 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
GE wash system

What did GE name their wash system in the service manual?

Post# 1199845 , Reply# 38   2/21/2024 at 11:34 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

Jerome, you might like this link if you have not seen it already, service manuals for the filter flo, model T and Hydrowave plus various GE FL washers:

 

 

www.uncleharrywizard.com/NephewCl...

 

 

And in a more perfect world the model T would have resembled this:

 

www.uncleharrywizard.com/NephewCl...


Post# 1199849 , Reply# 39   2/21/2024 at 13:10 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
GE washer

Thank you Chet. In a perfect world, GE would explain the differences between the 2 lubricants that were used in their transmissions.

Post# 1199852 , Reply# 40   2/21/2024 at 14:34 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

Welcome.

 

GE probably didn't put in the effort to explain because in GE's eyes the model T transmission was merely an "assembly" replaced as a whole. GE used to have rebuilding programs for their FF transmissions. FF transmission could be opened, repaired and put back into service. Model Ts were merely disposables. In fact most model Ts were scrapped rather than rebuilt or repaired.

 

But I will say this, I am kicking myself for not opening up a post FF transmission now. As they saying goes- know your enemy. I didn't care too at the time which I now regret.    


Post# 1199853 , Reply# 41   2/21/2024 at 14:37 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
GE model t

If I could, I would like to compare the model t to the filter-flo based on their gear oil smell and thickness. I think GE wanted to water it down so their gears will rust. They should've added thick cut gears for reliability.

Post# 1199855 , Reply# 42   2/21/2024 at 14:40 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
motor all at full speed

They should've left the motor all running at full speed while changing speeds through the clutch like GE did. I'd like the normal agitation to start slow for a few seconds, then jump to fast speed.

Post# 1199856 , Reply# 43   2/21/2024 at 14:45 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

See if you can order a used transmission of ebay or a service tech hear can email you one. There are more than plenty to go around. 

 

Regarding the two speed clutch I think it was a poor design. The speed shifters constantly broke off. Nearly every FF in the apartment scrap pile I saw had an inoperative slow speed. These were near BOL machines where the slow speed was built into the Permanent Press cycle. So anytime someone used PP the slow speed was engaged. Didn't take long for it to disappear. 

 

Honestly- make all FFs single speed. If you want delicate wash action simply used a 2 piece agitator and the poly knit cycle. Or use the mini basket.


Post# 1199865 , Reply# 44   2/21/2024 at 15:52 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
GE 2 speed

How do you think GE could've started the normal agitation looking back after the filter-flo was discontinued? I've had both GE pairs and they did get the clothes clean nonetheless.

Post# 1199866 , Reply# 45   2/21/2024 at 16:03 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

Just drop the motor across the line. Either a centrifugal start winding or split cap winding for direction. GE did both of these post FF. 


Post# 1199869 , Reply# 46   2/21/2024 at 16:46 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
motor humming

Do you prefer a nice humming motor, or the high pitch shrieking it does on normal/fast on post filter-flos?

Post# 1199877 , Reply# 47   2/21/2024 at 18:56 by chetlaham (United States)        

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Prefer the old humming motor and the indestructible motor windings.

 

 

Technically a PSC motor is even quieter because you have another magnetic field 90* out of phase with the primary. I wish all washers had PSC motors though I can understand the economy behind centrifugal start motors. 

 

 


Post# 1199879 , Reply# 48   2/21/2024 at 19:01 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
Old vs. new motors

What do you think of the quality of both motors in each machine? What do you think of the new motors? Please tell me what you think of this article and feel free to analyze it and point out what's missing. Thank you.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO GELaundry4ever's LINK


Post# 1199884 , Reply# 49   2/21/2024 at 20:25 by chetlaham (United States)        

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Thank you for the article. Fascinating read, despite the blood pressure spike it gave me. Wow! To see a turd hyped up like that is just nauseating.  Just wow.  And they even shamelessly advertised it on national television LOL! There are claims that don't make much sense- my understanding is that GE laundry was selling more than Maytag with Maytag being a rather poor example to compete against in a number of ways. And of course down right lies- such as performance, being quiet and dependability. But to think GE could compete with luxury market is for me is laughable yet was shockingly accurate in reality to a sad extent. It goes to show you how many upscale buyers, even today are swayed by size and features vs durability and longevity and GE exploited that to the fullest. GE not only coned landlords but also upscale buyers. Love the reference to Disney too- the power of keeping people in a pesdo dream like state.

 

 

A favorite activity here was listening to the dryer door going "thunk" like the one in a luxury car. According to Larry Johnston, GE Appliances' vice president of sales and distribution: "The secret weapon, and I think the hidden story here, is the dryer. When the dealers slammed the door it was all over."

One of the retailers who responded favorably to the presentation was Dennis D'Angelo, the white-goods buyer for Tops Appliance City. "They made sort of a quantum leap with their laundary," he commented. "There are a lot of salient consumer features.

 

 

 

These quotes are also revealing. It shows how people shop and judge on superficiality vs the state of actual product or lack there of.

 

Very revealing article, an unfiltered look inside GE's mind. I can't thank you enough Jerome.  


Post# 1199885 , Reply# 50   2/21/2024 at 20:27 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
GE commercial

GE thinks they're backing up their claims with this stupid commercial. Where did they get their engineers from, Harvard? And yet people fall for it hook, line, and sinker. This commercial deserves a reaction. Like we're too stupid to figure it out. I swear when my GE agitated at normal/fast speed it felt like it was gonna fall apart but it never really dawned on me at the time when it was purchased on a Friday and installed and used the next day and ran its first load that afternoon. I swear, that machine squeaked like it was dying. Heavy duty motor my ass. Excuse my language, but this really pisses me off to think they can foist these sorry excuses onto us. Did you catch the part where they mentioned steel in transmissions and oil capacity?
What about the agitation comparing Maytag and Whirlpool? They didn't say the specific brand when comparing washability, but we all know who. Heavy duty motor with copper windings and a single speed clutch? Please. That motor sounds like it's screaming for help when running at full speed. Again, we can all guess what oil they used in their transmissions compared to previous models. I am so sick and tired of that stupid hanging suspension. Hundreds of engineers? More like hundreds of stupid idiots. You're welcome Chetlaham. GE must think we're so stupid to figure them out. I don't just want clean clothes. I want durable appliances. GE also seems to think that a tiny transmission can handle all that massive torque. They should've put the transmission on top of the motor and have made it a true direct drive to compete and they should've mounted the pump directly to the motor. And they claim that their plastic tubs are durable and stand up to abuse. What do they think we're stupid?


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This post was last edited 02/21/2024 at 20:44
Post# 1199890 , Reply# 51   2/21/2024 at 20:49 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

Classic appeal to the personality type you're selling to. Get an upscale actor, with class, to recommend a certain type of washing machine and next thing you know every upscale housewife is incautiously searching for said washer in an appliance store equipped with prescriptive sales people to compel a successful sale.  

 

 

You might not be stupid; but trust, fantasy and withholding pertinent information blinds. 

 

 

 

 


Post# 1199891 , Reply# 52   2/21/2024 at 20:58 by chetlaham (United States)        
What was GE thinking

chetlaham's profile picture

Simple- extract what ever money remained in their equity. They knew there washers wouldn't last from the start. It was simply about having a decoy to get people to spend. By the time word got around executives took the money and ran. This practice is as common as air.


Post# 1199896 , Reply# 53   2/21/2024 at 21:52 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
GE engineers

Where did GE get their engineers from? What was being done behind the scenes? If I could, I would eavesdrop on their conversations so that I can get the coldhearted truth out that it's not about quality, it's about quantity. Oh, go ahead and every part that was discussed in the artical including their claims about their motors that were used and their suspension. Don't forget about the transmission and the thin sheet of water filling the tub and the plastic floor. These stupid engineers, I can rant forever.

Post# 1199902 , Reply# 54   2/21/2024 at 22:11 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

Most likely they were given a concise objective- build an ultra capacity washer but as cheaply and materially efficient as possible. Most likely they went to their Hitachi design as it was the cheapest and lightest weighing and copied upon that.


Post# 1199904 , Reply# 55   2/21/2024 at 23:22 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
motors

What do you think of their motors?

Post# 1199905 , Reply# 56   2/21/2024 at 23:55 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

I don't think the model T motor with the centrifugal switch was that bad, but I think the FF motors from the 80s and 90s were probably one of the best washer motors ever made. 


Post# 1199916 , Reply# 57   2/22/2024 at 07:13 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
sound

What about the sound of the motors when they run at normal/fast speed? What do you think of them?

Post# 1199923 , Reply# 58   2/22/2024 at 09:16 by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
GELaundry mentioning the hanging suspension:

Curious about that design and love seeing open cabinets revealing it...

Wish I had even seen my grandma's Kmart General Electric's suspension but I was never over when she got her washer fixed so unfortunately I'd never seen a "naked" GE in real life...



-- Dave


Post# 1199924 , Reply# 59   2/22/2024 at 09:34 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
GE suspension

I remember when my dad opened up the GE from the front to check leaks. The whole assembly shook back and forth during agitation and you can hear the motor whirring like a screaming sound at normal/fast speed. The only saving grace was that the motor sat on a platform.

Post# 1200705 , Reply# 60   3/3/2024 at 23:23 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
criminals at GE

Perhaps the criminals at GE are still getting away with shoddy products. This is a crime!

Post# 1200945 , Reply# 61   3/6/2024 at 09:48 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
article on GE washer

Here's another article on the GE washer from 1995 which I believe goes more in depth. There is so much to unpack here.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO GELaundry4ever's LINK


Post# 1200961 , Reply# 62   3/6/2024 at 11:32 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

Jerome, the link doesn't work, it wants you to sign in. I'd love to read it.


Post# 1200980 , Reply# 63   3/6/2024 at 15:38 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
pdf

If there's a way I can send in the pdf, I can do that.

Post# 1200991 , Reply# 64   3/6/2024 at 18:38 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

I got it!

 

If the document is not behind a paywall, we might be able to copy and paste it here.


Post# 1200999 , Reply# 65   3/6/2024 at 20:03 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
reaction

This deserves a lot of reactions. GE must've gone through a lot of cheapening to build these machines. They should've told us what lubricant was used.

Post# 1201003 , Reply# 66   3/6/2024 at 22:46 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
to chetlaham

What were these people at GE thinking? I read through that entire article and couldn't believe what became of GE washers and dryers. I can picture you with high blood pressure just reading that. That washer and dryer that came after the filter-flo was stupidly built. I swear, 12-year-old children could do a better job building them. That's how cheap it was. That awful noise they made during operation. GEE! All that torque. I am still outraged!

Post# 1201010 , Reply# 67   3/7/2024 at 04:47 by eronie (Flushing Michigan)        

Jerome
Another rant.


Post# 1201018 , Reply# 68   3/7/2024 at 07:41 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

@Eronie: Not a rant, Jerome sent me an article where GE explicitly talks about being tasked with building an ultra cheap washer in an unreasonable amount of time with outsourced parts. Everything we suspected all these years about the post FF washer is indeed real and its has now been confirmed.

 

 

GE actually wanted to outsource their laundry division entirely, but appliance executives thought it better to just make a new style of washer that met Welch's ideals. 

 

 

"GE brings a new washer to life
Author: Barbara Ettorre
Date: Sept. 1995
From: Management Review(Vol. 84, Issue 9)
Publisher: American Management Association
Document Type: Article
Length: 3,132 words
Abstract:
General Electric will introduce a new washing machine in Sep 1995 in the US. General Electric has begun to focus on teamwork
among all employees, faster production times and joint ventures. Appliances are 10% of General Electric's $60 billion in yearly sales.
The new washer was designed to have a larger capacity, less noise, better cleaning, no vibration and greater reliability for $399.
Full Text:
This month, for the first time in decades, General Electric will introduce an entirely new washing machine to American consumers.
The introduction is the culmination of several unprecedented departures for GE--how the company designed the machine and
outsourced many of its parts and how GE and its employees forged a dynamic relationship going forward. The company says the
process has been the most cost-effective and quality-focused effort in its washer-manufacturing history.
The process has been a good test of the way GE has positioned itself under its tenacious CEO, Jack Welch. GE is engrossed in
stretch and quality performance, reflected in its one-team mentality (marked by first names and an informal dress code at most
levels); its preoccupation with achieving better and faster processes and cycle times than any other company in the world; and its
partnerships with affiliates in and out of GE.
Bringing out a new washer is a critical move for GE that cuts to the heart of its business: According to company research, 78 percent
of the U.S. consumer image of General Electric is based on its appliances. Forget aircraft engines, medical systems, light bulbs and--
thanks to David Letterman --NBC.
Appliances are big money for GE, making up 10 percent of its $60 billion annual volume. The company sells a million units a month of
its core appliances--washers, dryers, refrigerators, ranges and dishwashers, which are called white goods and which comprise some
1,800 variations in GE models. GE and its main competitors, Maytag and Whirlpool, are virtuosos at making appliances. They have to
be. Appliance prices have remained the same for 40 years. Compare that with the price of a house or a car over the same period.
Half of all GE appliances made annually are manufactured at Appliance Park in Louisville, Ky., a venerable, 40-year-old complex of
five factories spread over 1,500 acres. It employs 9,000 workers, out of a total of 21,000 in GE's domestic appliance division. With 15
million square feet under its roofs, the park is GE's largest appliance-manufacturing facility.
But back in September 1992, Appliance Park was in danger of being phased out of existence. It had been averaging losses of $45
million a year. GE top management was ready to sign an agreement to outsource the company's domestically produced laundry line
to save costs. If washers and dryers went to other sources, it could be only a matter of time before the park's refrigerator, range and
microwave factories would be closed one by one.
The word had not yet filtered to the factory floor. Clearly, dramatic moves were called for.
Twenty-Day Wonder?
About that time, GE appliance executives were realizing that they could not devise a world-class washer by making changes to the
existing platform, which had been in place since 1960. The platform was a set of specifications and applications upgraded with each
new model introduction. Over the decades, about 150 variations had been done on it. "Our plan was flawed," says R. Mark Schreck,
vice president of technology.
The executives applied New Product Initiative (NPI), one of the alphabet-soup, companywide disciplines implemented under Welch
and intended to get away from vertical and functional mind-sets. NPI is a rigorous series of checks and balances incorporating
serious steps to bring a product to market.
The appliance executives had to define the product and figure out how it would be executed and commercialized. They determined
that, based on GE's consumer research (see box on page 36), a new washer should have bigger capacity and no vibration, have
some improvement in cleaning, be more attractive and less noisy, and be even more reliable--no leaks, no breakdowns. It also should
retail at $399. (Depending on size and features, washers run from $250 to $1,000 at retail. Most are sold at $399.)
Dick Burke, then-head of manufacturing, engineering and purchasing at Appliance Park, selected 20 people from different areas at
the park and gave them 20 days to come up with a new washer design. It had to cost 30 percent less and lead in such critical areas
as capacity and aesthetics by a factor of two over GE's competitors. The team could allot only $50 million for development, plant
retooling and product introduction.
"They could buy any working machine from anywhere, tear it apart and look for ideas," Burke recalls. "I told them the factory will be
an assembly line only--anything else that goes in has to be value-added." If GE were to make a washer element, it would have to be
cheaper and better than a part from anywhere else. Burke and his colleagues had thrown down the gauntlet. The team would have to
create a new platform from scratch.
In October, Burke told senior executives at GE's Fairfield, Conn., headquarters about the design enterprise. Their pens essentially
poised in mid-air, the managers agreed to wait on the outsourcing contract. The design team reported excellent progress. It would not
meet the 20-day deadline. But, by January 1993, it would devise a plan that met all targets.
While this was going on, a critical meeting was held in Washington, D.C., on December 1, 1992. Attendees included Burke and other
senior Appliance Park executives, Frank Doyle, GE's senior vice president of human resources, and officials of the International
Union of Electronic, Electrical Salaried, Machine and Furniture Workers (IUE). Its Local 761 represented more than 8,000 workers at
Appliance Park. GE could not support any investment in Louisville without cooperation from the union.
Labor and management swung into action, forming a joint Save the Park team and, via weeks of meetings and worker input,
developing 43 cost-saving initiatives that collectively would produce savings of $60 million over three years. Using GE's well-known
Workout problem-solving technique, labor and management brainstormed. According to Jim Allen, manager of communications and
community affairs at Appliance Park, about 80 percent of the ideas brought to the table were approved on the spot. "Lots of trust was
built," says Allen.
Is the Park Saved?
"Management and labor have to figure out how to be partners," says Norm Mitchell, president of Local 761. "This is the only answer
for industry to stay alive."
The participants had spent long hours at the table during the Christmas holidays. The meetings had been, at times, emotional. For
Mitchell, the death of his mother during the negotiations had marked the process with personal loss.
Eventually, the initiatives included sweeping changes in floor management and worker decision making. A dollar amount was
ascribed to each cost-cutting idea. The plan eliminated piecework and called for work teams, as well as more effective scheduling
and revised work rules. It set up guidelines for equipment usage and remapped processes for increased productivity. The changes
were not cosmetic or short-term; they were intended to become the way of life for all of Appliance Park's facilities.
"It was an honest recounting of what our cost structure was-- what relates to the union, what relates to product design and
investment," says Steven Riedel, vice president of marketing and product management at GE appliances.
Throughout these weeks, Welch remained skeptical. At the GE operating managers meeting in Boca Raton, Fla., in early January
1993, Burke tried hard to convince Welch that Appliance Park could build a cost-effective washer, but Welch continued to say no.
"Some of it was heated," Burke says, crustily.
With support from Kentucky's governor and lieutenant governor, the Save the Park team took the plan to the workforce--in what has
become known at the Park as "The Warehouse Meetings." In shifts on January 15, 1993, GE bused the 2,000 Appliance Park
salaried workers and 7,500 hourly employees to an improvised auditorium inside a park warehouse. There, they heard Doyle, Burke,
union officials, and Dick Stonesifer, president and CEO of GE appliances.
"They said, 'This is not a bluff. This is real;" says Allen. "They showed the employees hard dollars and cents." Importantly, the
initiatives involved no reduction in wages or benefits.
The Chairman Says Yes
On February 1, Appliance Park executives were ready to persuade Welch. They were armed with the Save the Park initiatives and
the new washing machine design, including targeted outsourcing recommendations. They also had an optimistic report for a
substantially upgraded dryer with larger capacity already scheduled to go into production in mid-1993 at the Montreal plant operated
by Camco, GE's Canadian joint-venture partner. The new washer and matching dryer would be "a nice consumer package,"
according to Burke.
Welch gave his conditional approval, subject to acceptance of the Save the Park initiatives by rank-and-file union employees. On
February 7, the workers unanimously approved all initiatives at a Local 761 meeting. Now, the washer could be a hard reality. A
brand-new appliance platform at GE normally takes 30 months from conception to product launch. Typical GE products in the past
have taken about three to five years from conception to launch. The goal of NPl was to cut product development time in half. Already,
GE's Bloomington, Ind., plant had been able to bring out a new refrigerator in 18 months. Schreck's technology people at Appliance
Park didn't recommend that short a schedule for the new washer. They advised at least a year of field tests, in which 300 hand-built
prototype machines would be placed into consumer homes and put through rigorous use--off-balance loads running for 3,000 hours
continuously, for instance.
It eventually has taken GE some 26 months to bring the washer to market, and there has been internal debate on just how fast it
should have been done. "We took our time with this washer because we wanted to make sure it was right," says Schreck.
The new washer is the epitome of "lean engineering" at GE. It has 380 parts, down from about 800 in the past. Enamel, a mainstay in
older models, is messy and wasteful to produce. There is no enamel in the new machine, which is 60 pounds lighter. GE claims that
because of sophisticated bonding methods, the new machine is virtually rust-free.
GE outsourced the transmission--something it wouldn't have considered before, but the company found a supplier who could make it
better and cheaper. According to Tom Tiller, product general manager for laundry, five suppliers are constructing factories from the
ground up to build parts for the new design. "There are 62 suppliers, 20,000 people throughout the supply chain," Tiller says.
Components of the old washer model came from a 200-mile radius. Components for the new washer come from all over the globe,
including Japan, Korea, Germany, Italy and the United States.
The new washer is being built from a platform intended to have only a seven-year life span, including second and third product
generations. GE appliance engineers are already working on these. The new washer is the beneficiary of several company-driven
initiatives, intended to reinforce quality and market leadership. GE's Product Management Decision System (PMDS), for instance,
incorporates software in which team members can see where they are in every element of a current program. PMDS helps them stay
on schedule.
Quick Market Intelligence (QMI), an intelligence-gathering technique GE learned from Wal-Mart, has been used at GE for the past
three or four years. It consists of a staggered series of meetings with sales, marketing and service staffers in GE affiliates worldwide.
They begin every Friday at 7 a.m. with Asian counterparts and proceed to Europe and the Americas, finally to the U.S. team. The
meetings are conducted via one-way video and two-way audio. Currently they involve 40 to 60 people in Appliance Park.
All Join Hands
The design process itself was marked with unprecedented interdisciplinary cooperation. The design team learned about gear noise
from the GE turbine group, clutch spring breakage from the electrical switch gear group, lubrication from GE automotive (and Ford
Motor Co.), and metallurgy from the bearings experts at GE aircraft engine. "I've been here since 1973, and this is the most
interactive development I've ever seen at this company," says Schreck.
As one example, service technicians had never been drawn into a product design before this. "We also considered installers. We
asked them, 'What do you want?'" says Tiller, adding that sales personnel were also involved far earlier than before. GE held a
splashy weeklong introduction for 220 of its biggest laundry appliance retail customers and 500 company sales and service
representatives at Disney World in Orlando in June. (Disney was the winner in competitive bidding.) To train professionals to sell the
new washer, GE is using computers, interactive videos and self-teaching materials.
In Building One, the washing machine plant, the retooling for the new washer was taking place even as workers turned out record
numbers of the old models, which were to be phased out by the end of summer 1995. (Parts would be made through the fall.) The
retooling and training took place in stages. "I was running a factory making thousands of units a day, and in the process of building
another factory in the same space," observes Dan Langan, plant manager of the laundry manufacturing operation.
Old assembly lines were cleared away. First one, then two, newly tooled and configured assembly lines were dropped in. They were
up and running fully by June and August of this year, when, according to Langan, "My problem will be, 'How do I make enough of
these?'" (A third production line will open next February.) The washer-dryer retooling at both Appliance Park and Montreal has cost
$100 million over three years, from 1992 through mid-1995.
Of the line in general, Langan says, "We are an excellent and flexible assembly team." Layoffs at Building One and at Building Five,
which makes refrigerators, are expected to total about 500--minimal in light of the changes at Appliance Park. Those hired since
spring 1993 have been told to expect to be laid off as new processes are put in place. "No long-term employees have been affected,"
Langan says.
The newly streamlined operations are cleaner, quieter and less capital-intensive. Cumbersome and toxic stamping processes have
largely been eliminated. Finding himself in a coaching and counseling role, Langan supervises some 110 work teams, plus nine
business teams in the new work areas. Some areas include ergonomics, environmental health and safety, and communications.
A visit to Building One earlier this year, when the old assembly line was still up and running, showed how different the old and new
lines look. The old line--which began in 1953, when 10 units a day were produced--was noisy and dirty. Huge rolls of coiled steel
were being stamped into components.
Over in the new line, Bill Mattingly, a tool and die maker and 22-year union member, works on giant plastics machines that make the
new washer tubs. He says the plant changes have been drastic: "The most important thing that came out of Save the Park was that it
took the company a lot of years to see there was a tremendous amount of knowledge not being tapped."
New-line member Patti Calvert, a 26-year union veteran, says the new mind-set is more aware of safety. "The new equipment is
better for us--no repetitive injuries," she says. In fact, an ergonomics team tested all line functions.
Jerry Barnes, senior advanced manufacturing engineer, points out the new computer-controlled metal-bending system from a New
Zealand company that eliminates overhead conveyor storage. The horizontal apparatus, Manufactured by Scott Technology,
stretches serenely along the line and resembles a windowed laboratory.
Via a series of computers and an automated drawbridge unloading system, the plant is able to keep components as needed on hand.
The line is stocked during a slower shift, with enough material to run for 16 hours. There is no forklift traffic. Provisions are made for
such additional considerations as recycling. If something doesn't work, employees can shut the line down--and they get help quickly.
An End of the Line Audit (EOLA) is a computer-driven spot check that selects a finished washer at random and puts it through a
complete operational check based on audit criteria. To keep the production line continuously aware of how it is doing, the computer
feeds the information back to production workers, says Tony Sipes, a specialist in training and development in Building One.
Bill Hamilton, a 30-year union man in quality inspection, sums it up thusly: "The employees and management used to be pulling in
opposite directions. People are proud to work back here now. They listened to us."
Local 761's Mitchell now finds himself unable to handle all the requests he gets from other unions that want him to tell them how GE
did it. "They tell me, 'I wish I could get my union president to open up,'" Mitchell says.
Says Langan: "You can never imagine the enormity of what we're doing. It's great that Jack [Welch]'s supporting it, but I got the
janitor asking about it."
THE COMPANY:
GENERAL ELECTRIC CO.
THE CHALLENGE: To create a new washing machine from the ground up in record time and to determine whether GE's appliance
manufacturing complex--slated to be phased out--is the best place in which to build it.
THE SOLUTION:
A blitzkrieg program at Appliance Park in Louisville, Ky., including a multiteam design effort, innovative outsourcing and radical "Save
the Park" cost-saving and quality initiatives from labor and management.
COMING CLEAN
Does GE make the best washer today?
According to Brian Kelley, general manager of GE appliance brands, if asked to consider all appliance makers, most consumers
would rate GE slightly lower in washers, but slightly higher in refrigerators. "It varies by product line," he says, adding that GE is
perceived by consumers as No. 1 in brand commitment, particularly in service and continuity.
Kelley is closely involved in consumer perceptions of the GE brand name. The company surveys 12,000 consumers per quarter.
They often cite, in order of importance, "trust? "innovation" and "quality" when referring to the GE name. GE is stressing these
attributes in the introduction of the new washer--in effect, asking the consumer a question to which the company believes it already
knows the answer: "Who would you expect to come out with this washer?"
In the minds of many younger consumers who usually aren't in the market for them, appliances can be considered unexciting. "If
there were anything we'd want to improve, [it would be] to get the same perception among young people as there is among their
middle-aged counterparts," says Kelley. But then he adds, "The nice thing is, middle-aged people buy the majority of appliances:'
--B.E."


Post# 1201021 , Reply# 69   3/7/2024 at 09:34 by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

More than 30 years ago considering the 26-month duration of the project.† It's over, done.


Post# 1201028 , Reply# 70   3/7/2024 at 11:37 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
far from over

If you think GE's cheapening of their washers and dryers are over, think again. They're much worse now. I have seen countless videos of their newest models going off balance and not washing properly. They're much worse than the model T and hydro waves put together. They sound cheap too. This is just Jack Welch's idea kicked into overdrive. Part 2 actually came about in 2015. This is how they were bought out by Haier. This is what GE wanted all along. Chet, if you are reading this, this is what I suspected. GE is now Haier today. Yes, Jack Welch wanted filter-flo out of the picture because it was so good. This was especially true for build and cleaning quality. What a stupid idiot Jack Welch was. I also believe that's when customer service went down the drain. I bet the new CEO of GE Appliances is now following Jack Welch's footsteps. It's far from over. In fact, it's only getting much worse.

Post# 1201029 , Reply# 71   3/7/2024 at 11:51 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
GE washer rant

If I'm ranting about these GE washers and dryers now, it's because it's well deserved especially years later. It is very well deserved.

Post# 1201031 , Reply# 72   3/7/2024 at 11:59 by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine)        

wayupnorth's profile picture
Jerome, rant and rave to GE as we are all tired of hearing it. Many have blocked you because of your constant complaining.

Post# 1201032 , Reply# 73   3/7/2024 at 12:02 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

Jerome I honestly would have believed (and at one point half way did) that the filter flo was discontinued simply because it was to costly to build. But seeing how they wittingly put designed to fail components in mid 90s-2000s Potscrubbers tells me GE was about designed obsolescence and capitalizing off reputation rather than improving existing products. 

 

@DADoES: Well, those meetings may be long over however what they set in motion is still going on this this day- every modern washer on the market excluding Speed Queen is LARPing a model T. Model T paved the pay for the modern appliance world. Nobody in the consumer market said anything about it so here we are today.


Post# 1201038 , Reply# 74   3/7/2024 at 13:19 by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

Numerous choices.† Buy enough stock in the company(ies) of concern to become a majority shareholder to leverage and change the direction.† Get on the board of directors.† Buy the company, become CEO.† Start your own company/brand, squash all the others with your superior product.


Post# 1201046 , Reply# 75   3/7/2024 at 14:29 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
complain to GE

As much as I'd like to complain to GE, they just don't care. It's all about their pockets and nothing else. The model T set this entire disaster in motion today. Nothing has changed. I can literally post thousands of videos of GE's going off balance and they still don't care. Still to this day, they blame the consumer instead of building durable products.

Post# 1201054 , Reply# 76   3/7/2024 at 15:02 by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine)        

wayupnorth's profile picture
WE ALL KNOW your beliefs, but nobody wants to hear you go on and on and on about nothing you can ever do about it.

Post# 1201056 , Reply# 77   3/7/2024 at 15:17 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

The thing is I could buy Whirlpool, GE or Frigidaire as a whole. I could bring back the Maytag dependable care line or beef up the VMW design such that it could last double or triple its current design threshold. However most consumers will not see or understand- they don't care about whats inside mechanically. They will see competitor design #1 with more cycles, buttons and a larger tub while being 150 dollars cheaper- compared to #2 my 30 year commercial grade design with fewer features, smaller tub and $150 cost mark up. The consumer at face value will think 'why should I spend more money for fewer cycles? More money so I can only wash half the clothes per load? I hate doing laundry, even just one load, hence why I let it all pile up to the point I need a super capacity tub. That so called long life heavy duty whatever doesn't meet my anticipated needs'. 

 

 

In the end my design would sell at least 1:100 under the most optimistic scenarios. No appliance dealer will keep a low selling washer that with a money shot straight up resembles something out of 1965 front of house. It will get moved back further reducing sales until the lineup is entirely pulled off the showroom and eventual offering dropped altogether. 

 

This is exactly what happened to many good washers including the Maytag dependable care. IIRC Lowes, Circuit City, Best Buy, possibly even PCRichards  IIRC did not even carry the DC on the show room floor; Sears and HD did however, but it was always off to some obscure back corner or one model sandwiched between Performas, Goodmans and Herrins. It was never front and center like at some local Maytag home appliance centers. Key word some. Actually half the Maytag home appliance centers I saw carried the dreaded slant front machines up front.   

 

 

 

Consumers latched on to capacity, then features, then that which offered those things at the lowest cost. Cleanability too if taken into account through consumer reports to sales reps. No one stopped to think steel outter tub, repair records, years in existence, tub seals, number of moving parts, ect, ect.

 

Consumers voted the best designs out of existence simply because of capacity, cost and face value appeal. Manufacturers simply followed demand.

 

If we really wish to see the appliance industry change there has to be a grass roots movement whereby people actually realize what they're buying and stop spending money on chintzy machines. If everyone tomorrow began purchasing TC and TR Speed Queens the industry would change overnight. Whirlpool, GE, LG, Frigidaire, Samsung, ect would be forced to top Speed Queen.       


Post# 1201072 , Reply# 78   3/7/2024 at 17:51 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
today's consumers

Trust and believe me, today's consumers wouldn't want me designing a GE filter-flo EVER. Yes, they whine and complain about doing laundry. What they fail to realize is that bigger capacity brings more problems. We already saw that with the GE post filter-flo models and since then, it has only gotten worse. All they see is a washer that they can stuff everything in and assume they come out clean. The complaints online are extremely evident.

Post# 1201078 , Reply# 79   3/7/2024 at 18:53 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

Consumers are to blame more than anyone else IMO. I am aware that raw material prices have gone up as well as shipping however I am willing to spend more for a machine that lasts despite having a smaller tub than one with a super tub but that will not last past 10 years. 


Post# 1201084 , Reply# 80   3/7/2024 at 20:31 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
super capacity

Even if I did have a super capacity washer, I'd use it properly.

Post# 1201173 , Reply# 81   3/9/2024 at 08:39 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
The T model, GE automatic washer

combo52's profile picture
Probably saved General Electric from exiting the laundry business. Altogether, GE was not doing that well with laundry, and needed to shake things up.

The.T model machines live up to expectations, except for some durability issues with the transmission and brake assembly, otherwise performed far better far less lining, better water extraction, and virtually no vibration compared to the filter, flows that you often had to chase around the laundry room.

I had one customer that tied the cord in a tight knot, so when it started walking, it would just unplug itself, lol.

GE is once again, becoming serious about laundry, and they have some darn good performing products, my only major concern is their front load machines are made in China and Iím not promoting buying Chinese products whenever possible as we still make the worlds best full-size laundry appliances here in the United States between whirlpool and Speed Queen thereís not much reason to buy anything else unless you need a compact laundry set up.

John


Post# 1201194 , Reply# 82   3/9/2024 at 19:23 by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

To be frank I think GE was better off outsource their laundry. I would much rather had a Goodman than a model T design. I currently use a Goodman style washers and it is light years ahead of the model T.



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