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Thread Number: 95713
/ Tag: Vintage Dishwashers
the stupid and the Maytag jet clean dishwasher part 2 |
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| Post# 1203507 4/15/2024 at 18:17 by bpetersxx (laf in on the banks of the Wabash River) | ||
well i loaded the Maytag Jetclean DW wc202 right this time
But should I pull out the timer knob to power dry so it keeps the hot water hot The Maytag Jetclean DW wu401 says to push wash and dry so it keeps the hot water hot Still runs nice and fine It better as I had to replace the bearing assembly in the pump housing and that was a chore at that | ||
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Post# 1203534 , Reply# 1 4/16/2024 at 07:06 by chetlaham  (United States) |
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| Post# 1203548 , Reply# 2 4/16/2024 at 13:40 by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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| Post# 1203872 , Reply# 3 4/21/2024 at 06:43 by bpetersxx (laf in on the banks of the Wabash River) | ||
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eweaq
here are more pics and a video to come
some are sideways some are not how do I fix it also are they good enough for upload | ||
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Post# 1203875 , Reply# 4 4/21/2024 at 08:43 by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- ) |
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detergent 
Hi Pete,
Nice machine! The reverse-racks are exemplary cleaners, BUT as other members have stated above, you do need hot water entering the machine for it to do well as it will not heat the water. Do not rely on the temperature setting on your hot water tank, as you have heat losses as the water travels through the house's plumbing. Use a meat thermometer at your kitchen sink to get the true temperature. I would recommend 140 to 145 deg F entering the machine. Depending on heat loss in your lines, you may have to set your tank to 150 or higher. Forgive me for saying this, but your off-brand gel detergent will prevent your Maytag, or any dishwasher, from performing to its designed potential. If you look up dishwasher detergent in Consumer Reports Magazine (your library may have free online access), you can find the ratings of dishwasher detergents. In general, pods/tablets tend to rank the highest, powders in the middle, and gels dead last. Most pods/tabs have scores in the eighties and low nineties. Gels tend to have scores in the forties and fifties. I checked, and your brand was not tested. I would sat it would likely be in the bottom eschelon. Try Cascade Complete or Finish Ultimate and see if your dishes don't come out much better. Do you have hard water (over about 10-12 grains per gallon if hardness?) If so, it makes it even more desirable to go with a quality detergent. Enjoy your new machine!! Barry This post was last edited 04/21/2024 at 12:42 | ||
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Post# 1203905 , Reply# 5 4/21/2024 at 16:42 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Basic Maytag, reverse rack, dishwasher
With modern detergents if you can get 130 to 140° out of your kitchen faucet, that’s plenty hot enough, temperatures above that just destroy your plumbing, your water heater and the dishwasher.
Since this dishwasher doesn’t heat the water, make sure the water is hot at the kitchen faucet. When you start the dishwasher, you can use the gel that you bought, but use it only in the pre-wash cup and put a good detergent pod in the Main detergent cup and close the lid. It’s absolutely amazing that a company that sold a high priced product like this made a machine that doesn’t heat the water, even a bare-bones cheapest whirlpool or GE ever made always heated the water somewhat. John | ||
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Post# 1203907 , Reply# 6 4/21/2024 at 17:23 by peteski50 (New York) |
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Maytag!
I love the reverse rack maytag my friend had one in the 90s in a condo she lived in. It cleaned really well. The water of course was really hot so thats what made it really work. I enjoyed loading it you can get so many things into it. She also had a basic model I think a wu300 from 1982. It certainly was noisy. I dont know if the TOL models were quieter.
Good Luck with the machine! Peter | ||
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Post# 1203925 , Reply# 7 4/21/2024 at 22:17 by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- ) |
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dishwasher detergent
John, yes I told Pete to take the water temperature at the faucet, lol. The temperatures we are talking about are not going to destroy the dishwasher or the plumbing.
As far as putting a gel in the pre-wash cup, there is generally no reason to do so. A good quality detergent will work perfectly well in the main wash. They are created to do so. It is wasteful to use detergent in the Pre-wash and will only contribute to etching of glassware. Why shouldn't Maytag have a produced a model that didn't heat the water? There is no reason for someone who had their water heater set appropriately to waste money purchasing a machine with capabilities they don't need. If someone needs water heating, they go up the line and purchase one of their models that will. Maytag is just providing a line of dishwashers with features to meet the consumers' various needs. | ||
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Post# 1203936 , Reply# 9 4/22/2024 at 06:13 by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- ) |
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detergent
A dishwasher detergent should do the job on it's own without adding chemicals, Tom. Palmolive gel is not a good detergent, why do you buy it and then have to purchase a chemical to add to it to make it do it's job? Unless it's just fun for you to do it that way.
Today's quality detergents do wonders, even without phosphates. Why not just buy a good detergent tab/pod and put it in the main wash dispenser and forget it. Your dishes are no cleaner than anyone else's. When dishes come out sparkling free of food, that can't be improved upon. That's the way mine come out virtually every day by just sticking a Cascade Complete or sometimes a Finish Ultimate, in the main wash dispenser and forgetting about it. Do you have some peculiar water chemistry or very hard water? No, just the opposite. Maytag's are very good at NOT etching dishes with their short wash periods. One of the best dishwashers for prevention of etching. Etching is a function of exposure (time,) alkalinity and water hardness. An 18 minute wash time is a flash compared to today's underpowered machines and their excessively long wash periods. This post was last edited 04/22/2024 at 07:22 | ||
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Post# 1203941 , Reply# 10 4/22/2024 at 09:24 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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1980s Maytag reverse rack dishwashers
If you look at the cycle charts for the various models of Maytag, dishwasher available it was ridiculous. There were at least three different cycle sequences for a full cycle on their dishwashers. Maytag made good performance a step up feature that you had to pay extra for which was ridiculous. They did not do this for their washing machines even the basic 106 could wash a load of clothes just as well as an 806.
It was ridiculous not to include water heating in a dishwasher that has a heating element, Maytag did not tell you in the literature that if you don’t have 140° water you shouldn’t buy this dishwasher, nearly half the people in this country do not have control over the hot water temperature in their homes when you’re in condominiums and apartments, etc. It is very dangerous and wasteful of energy to keep your water temperature over 120°F more than half the homes in this country either have children in them or elderly people so it is not a good idea. Turning your water heater temperature up greatly shortens the life of the water heater and your plumbing the inlet valves the hoses on your washers etc. it’s very easy to see that people that turn their gas water heaters over 140° have much shorter life from them that’s just plain physics. It always works better to put detergent in both compartments. that’s my big complaint with detergent pods for dishwasher you always need to add some detergent to the prewash cup, it doesn’t matter so much in the pre-wash. You can use an inexpensive gel or powder detergent. Etching is no longer much of a problem with the new formulations I have never had any itching problems with this double detergent sequence. I’ve been doing it for 36 years with my two whirlpool dishwashers. When you start a huge load of extremely dirty dishes, it’s ridiculous not to have a little bit of detergent in there for a surfactant to help start Emulsifying and sequestering the food so it can be pumped down the drain without clogging pipes, etc. Hi Barry, I just happen to have a little more experience with this than you do having Worked with more than 15,000 customers and their dishwasher problems over the years. I know what works and what doesn’t harm the dishes and the dishwasher and what doesn’t. John | ||
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Post# 1203944 , Reply# 11 4/22/2024 at 10:48 by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- ) |
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dishwashers
Sorry your ego got hurt, John.
No, there is no reason for Maytag to have not offered a version without water heating. No one is making you, or anyone else, buy it. That was over forty years ago, get over it. If one doesn't need that capability then there is no need to pay for it. It is the consumers' responsibility to select what is right for themselves. Maytag gave them a very nice range of options. There are many reason for having hot water heaters set for higher than than the 120 degrees now recommended. They are designed for that. Metals and fiberglass are the main components and a twenty degree shift or a thirty degree shift is not going to have a meaningful difference in their longevity, neither material is fatigued at those temperatures. More frequent cycling, with higher temperatures may increase wear, primarily in electric elements, but they are easy to change. Newer enzymatic detergents do tend to etch less, so? They still etch to a degree and the parameters I listed are the the ones that control the etching process. My comments were not made for the purpose of comparing older with new detergents so your comment is irrelevant. My comment was focused on Tom's misstatement that Maytag Reverse racks etch more than other machines when the reality is the opposite. If your Whirlpools need a boost, with detergent in the pre-wash cup to get dishes clean, by all means do so. For the rest of us who have dishwashers capable of cleaning with only detergent in the main cup, we enjoy the convenience and savings offered by our more capable machines. Why would one want to waste resources putting detergent in the pre-wash, when dishes come out clean and virtually spotless, without doing so? There is no logic in that. People might think you are insecure the way you reiterate your background every time someone disagrees with you. Take a deep breathe and relax John, people can have a differing opinion than yours. You may find less stress in your life if you utilize intellect to override your emotions. Pete, I hope you are enjoying your machine! Gives us some pictures of a "Bob Load" one day. | ||
| Post# 1203950 , Reply# 13 4/22/2024 at 13:17 by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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Use of detergent in the prewash cup comes down to water quality and hardness.
When I lived in California, my water could be as hard as 27 gpg depending on the well it was pumped from, literally making it some of the hardest water in the nation. It needed that pre wash cup filled to the brim and then some. When I moved into a home that came with a water softener, it turned my KDS-18 into a ravaging beast, 4 times that machine it was while using less than half the detergent. I also no longer needed to use Institutional Cascade to get the dishes clean and no longer needed to extend cycling to the extreme I was before. Basically, it comes down to experimentation. If things are not coming out clean with reasonably dirty dishes, add detergent to the prewash cup. Also, be aware that the detergent designed around these older machines is no longer available. They need as much help as they can get with their short cycles, especially in areas with hard water. Yes, John, we all know how much you hate Maytag but ALL manufactures had their weak areas or were slow to change in upcoming designs. KitchenAid was one of the last manufactures to include a spray arm for the upper rack. My buddy had a late 80’s/early 90’s Whirlpool dishwasher in the home he bought in 2009 that was a one armed bandit. Show me a Maytag dishwasher from the 80’s or 90’s that had a single wash arm? I’m not an expert with Maytag dishwashers of the 70’s but I’m pretty sure they all had 2 wash arms. My grandmother had a builders grade GE dishwasher from 1989 that came with the home she bought in 2003 which had a single arm and the dishes came out of that thing dirtier than when they went in. That includes heating the water, according to your info. | ||
| Post# 1203954 , Reply# 15 4/22/2024 at 14:06 by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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Post# 1203956 , Reply# 16 4/22/2024 at 14:44 by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- ) |
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Maytag
Yes, Tom, I sure did. I saw your your reference to the early Maytag, with the figure 8 heating elements. You will notice my comments were directed at that machine, as evidenceed by my use of the 18 minute figure, which is not that long comparatively. As I stated, a mere flash compared to today's machines. GE and Hotpoints of the day were 30 to 45 minutes (approx.) for the main wash, dependent on cycle selection. Some other brands also had short main wash cycles in the none heated or non-extended cycle mode, which lessed the etching effect but also their cleaning ability. Recall the early Maytags had the number one rating in Consumer Reports.
GE was probably the winner for longest wash times. I don't recall it being a major problem with my mom's early seventies GE Potscrubber, but over time the cheaper glasses did showed etching. Our leaded crystal never did, however. You can wash your dishes any way you want, Tom. Since you posted it, you should expect comments, lol. It just seems odd to do it your way when you don't have to, and thought it would be interesting for myself and others to share why. I would suggest you don't post a comment if you don't want it to be discussed. This post was last edited 04/22/2024 at 15:36 | ||
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Post# 1203968 , Reply# 18 4/22/2024 at 19:22 by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- ) |
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better get glasses
You better get glass Tom, in the last paragraph of post #9, I stated that the 18 minute wash was a flash compared to today's machines, referring back to your statement about the early Maytags.
After that I was talking about my experiences with the Reverse Racks, which are the newer models-- the same as Pete has. That is what the post is about, Pete's machine. Not earlier models. GE Potscubbers do have a very long main wash periods around 45 minutes in the Potsrubber cycle and I stated "in the main wash" word for word in reply 16. No, Consumer Reports did not test for etching caused by dishwashers. In the past they have tested detergent themselves for etching. My point in mentioning the GE of my family was to reiterate the etching of a near 45 minute main wash period was not that bad. Over twice the time of the early Maytags with only an eighteen minute main wash. Any time John and I spar a little you have to step into it. Do you want people to think you are nothing but his sycophant? You did exactly as I knew you would today. As I told you last time you did this, you did not disappoint. You didn't today either. I was telling my roomie, after commenting to John, "Watch Tom will step in, he always does." Sure enough you followed the pattern exactly, just as predicted. Thanks for clarifying on why you use a gel and enhance it. That wasn't so bad now, was it. You could have just said that instead of going into some drivel about not being in competition for clean, whatever that means. Anyway, we are here to share our experiences and learn from each other. When people continually denigrate others and their ideas, yes, I do sometimes step in and call them out. People get tired of John telling everything he perceives to be wrong with the machine they just obtained. They didn't ask, It would be nice if he could just say "Congratulations" about their newest acquisition and leave it at that, or at least say he is happy for them.... instead of trying to build his ego by being negative and pointing out every flaw he perceives there is. Heaven forbid anyone who says a positive word about a Maytag product. You have seen others numerous comments about this, it is certainly not just me observing this. Positive comments about dishwashers other than his precious Whirlpool really invokes a slew of negativity often exaggerations or outright fabrications. We are here to share information and learn from each other. That's the purpose of this group. These emotional outbursts, and denigrating others' ideas because someone has a neurosis about a certain brand are disrespectful of our members. Good grief it's only an appliance. Poor Pete, he shared some information on his nice dishwasher and has to endure all this tempest-in-a-teacup exchange. Hopefully he got wise and didn't read this far. ;o; If you have read through all this, Pete, I apologize. Your dishwasher is a nice find. I hope you enjoy it. Don't be shy about posting more information on it. We do care. This post was last edited 04/22/2024 at 21:50 | ||
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Post# 1204018 , Reply# 19 4/24/2024 at 11:14 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Reverse rack, Maytag dishwashers
We’re an interesting bit of dishwasher, history, but it was a failed design. In the end they were playing with difficult to repair design and reliability problems from the beginning, they were revised to a belt drive design, which made repairs much easier, but did not improve reliability much.
By the time, the one which is the subject of this thread was made, the reliability had improved a lot, but the biggest single problem with this design is consumers did not like them, and Maytag could not make serious inroads into sales of dishwashers. People just didn’t like the awkward loading and the lack of capacity. It also really hurt them that they did not have an upper wash arm under the top rack where it belonged with a large item was placed in the lower rack items above. It did not get clean. Maytag ditched the whole design all at once To go to a more user friendly, more reliable design, dishwasher and sales took off within two years Maytag dishwasher sales had more than doubled. Hi Dan, your friend who had a whirlpool dishwasher without an Upper wash arm, that machine would’ve been made in the 70s whirlpool didn’t make any standard dishwashers. Without a second arm in the 80s they did come out with a real basic machine in the early 90s that had a pop-up tower like GE machines, and it had the same problem GE machines had it would not washing the corners of the upper rack. Hi Barry, there’s just simply no excuse for the way you react to things, you can’t always have things the way you like them by making up stuff. John | ||
| Post# 1204019 , Reply# 20 4/24/2024 at 12:00 by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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"difficult to repair design and reliability problems"
My family had one from 1990-2011, not one single repair. The belt drive models would need a belt and silicone grease every once in a while but they were very reliable machines. The racks had a good coating on them, they never rusted on our model. The later models definitely had a shitty coating through the end in 2006. That was common on most makes through that time period. The non mechanical timer models had lots of control board issues on the post 1991 models, especially towards the end of production. I'd argue the RR models were significantly more reliable than the later ones. "they did come out with a real basic machine in the early 90s that had a pop-up tower like GE machines" I just looked up his address (he's moved a few times since) and the home was built in 1991. Must be a pop-up tower model, which still makes it a single wash arm dishwasher. | ||
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Post# 1204021 , Reply# 21 4/24/2024 at 13:22 by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- ) |
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reverse racks
Let's see John...the reverse rack was on the market for well over tenty years, I would say that indicates a very successful design and a miney-maker for Maytag.
Recall they held more dishes than the other brands and were almost always in the top eschlon of Consumer Reports ratings, even at times beating our Whirlpool and Kitchen-Aid. Not only are CU reviews exemplary for the Reverse Rack, but the general reviews from our members are as well. I've seen several members state, "They are the best dishwasher ever made." Of course that is a qualitative comment, but it shows the How highly the reverse racks are thought of. Our members are more knowledgeable than the general public and I trust their perceptions and CU's as my own experiene. Much more than your emotionally tainted comments born out of your jealousy of anyone giving favorable comments to a machine that is not a Whirlpool product. Good grief grow up and some emotional maturation, John, it's only a dishwasher. I like Whirlpool, Maytag, GE and even some others brands as each have something to bring to the table. Many have qualities superior to Whirlpool. Get over it. That doesn't denigrate Whirlpool. Someone that has a neurosis over a machine/brand/dishwasher really should seek some help. I don't say that in unkindness, but concern. As far as your outright lie about GE tower washes not cleaning in the corners, that is contemptible for your to disrespect the other members in this group with your falsification. In sixty years of tower wash GE's, Consumers Union would have spotted and commented on something as serious as you allegation. Very many of our group members have had or do have GE tower wash dishwasher, and if every tower wash didn't clean in the corners in the upper rack...it would be known and talked about. You are lying to the wrong group of people. You may not respect me, and that is fine, but I do wish you would respect the other members and the quit ruining others' experience with your lies/exaggerations/untrue generalization and your denigrating remarks toward their opinions. | ||
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Post# 1204035 , Reply# 22 4/24/2024 at 17:54 by countryguy (Astorville, ON, Canada) |
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A house my partner and I purchased in 1990 had a WU700 model Maytag. I loved that dishwasher. The reverse loading design was great! It always got everything clean and in a maximum of 90 minutes on the Heavy Duty cycle and 67 minutes on the Short cycle. The regular cycle was 75 minutes. It had the centre spray tower for cleaning the upper rack as well as the top arm for spraying downwards. When I bought my current house in '91, on the day I got possession I had a WU700 Maytag installed. I used it for almost 20 years with no problems. It was loud but it cleaned well.
Gary | ||
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Post# 1204052 , Reply# 24 4/24/2024 at 22:01 by chetlaham (United States) |
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I honestly believe the reverse rack design may ultimately have been abandoned because people didn't know you literally had to place cups on the bottom rack and plates on the top rack. I've seen pics and in person where people would try and put plates in the bottom tins and a bowls, cups and baking dishes in the top rack. All of the pics on Google of Maytag reverse rack loading are from this site which of course would show the correct way of doing it. But I think people didn't know that pre-internet when shopping or finding a reverse rack in their new home. | ||
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Post# 1204055 , Reply# 26 4/24/2024 at 23:22 by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- ) |
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reverse rack
What are you mumbling in and on about, Tom? Why are you talking about second wash arms and plate sizes? That has nothing to do with the past conversation d. If you are trying to say. Reverse racks were not tested with pans in the lower rack, so??? Why would it matter? It utilized a wash arm for washing the upper rack. It handles pots and pans equally well in both racks.
Yes, I have a reverse rack now and have had several in the past, I know exactly what they can hold, ha. They do hold more than other dishwashers of the same era. Many of our members have commented on that as well. What's all this about your Tubberware pitcher? I am sorry if it did not fit in your reverse rack. What's the point? Are you saying Maytag engineers should have consulted you about your Rubbermaid pitcher before they designed their dishwashers? Dishwasher capacity is not rated by Tupperware pitchers. The only things I have that don't fit my reverse rack are large cookie sheets. They didn't fit in my vintage KA either. That's life. I am not disputing any of your measurements. For two reasons, I believe you, and it has nothing to do with what we have been talking about. You have historically always jumped in when John and I had a dispute as if he was capable of handling the situation. Others have noticed you seem to be his little twin and seem to back up everything he says even his fabrications. I really don't need to be telling you this because you know it and so does everyone else. If your last post was not done in defense of John, then I say that's great as plenty of your others are. John brings on his own "attacks" not only from me, but others. He apparently seems to think he is the indisputable "king" of the site and can't handle being corrected when he lies or exaggerates based on his biases. People get tired of it. There are many people on this site who have superior knowledge and abilities than John. John has a lot of experiences but they are often overshadowed by his exaggerations and continual global generalizations that simply are not true. He is continually negative about any appliances or brands that he doesn't like and he continually attacks people if they say something against one of his favorites. If you dare bruise his ego by complimenting an appliance that is not one of his favorites (as in Whirlpool, usually) his ego gets bruised and and he denigrates that person's comments. I don't dislike John as a person, nor do I dislike you. I actually learn a lot from both of you. I do dislike members who are disrespectful of others and who continually be negative and argumentative for no other purpose than ego or trying to show superiority. You have one of the lowest emotional maturation levels of anyone one this site and are child-like in your thought processes. You view the world through biased generations and globalizations, instead of through reality. You view the world through biased colored glasses, as they say. So you are going to see things the way you want to and interpret them in a way that is consistent with those internal biased. You and John share that trait but he is a more emotionally mature person than you are, at least in some ways. OK, have we insulted each other enough, or do you want another round? This is not what this site is about. Way too often, I see opinions being represented as facts, when they they are not. That is John's number one speciality. If see people denigrating members, hurting them, lying or insulting others or when I see self-absorbed people using this site for nothing but ego building, yes I sometimes step in and say something. Not nearly as often as I should. Everyone should be cognizant of counterproductive behavior and step in. We are here to share, learn and help each other. I hate to see people have their posts shot down because someone thinks they are the only aone allowed to have an opinion or their opinion is the only right one. I realize it's difficult when we have so many varied personalities, certainly there are bound to be some conflicts. Emotional baggage, egos and insecurities should be checked at the door, however, so we can share and learn and do what this site is intended for...enjoying and maintaining our vintage appliances. This post was last edited 04/25/2024 at 00:47 | ||
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Post# 1204056 , Reply# 27 4/24/2024 at 23:31 by chetlaham (United States) |
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Post# 1204061 , Reply# 28 4/25/2024 at 06:02 by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA) |
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Actually
I think it is just a matter of some guys here need more fiber in their diet. It's important when you are older. I know I myself get cranky when I don't get enough fiber.
Back to the dishwashers, I think even low priced D&M manufactured, crappy Kenmores we had heating the water the whole wash period. Yes they were noisy, did not last long, rusty, and needed repairs but they did clean the dishes. | ||
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Post# 1204068 , Reply# 29 4/25/2024 at 09:18 by chetlaham (United States) |
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Standard tub GE dishwashers made between 1983 and 2022 got the water the hottest. With 140-150*F water inlet it was possible to get water above 180*F as the heater ran continuously even after the temperature sensing portion of the main wash satisfied. Total heater run times on some GE dishwashers exceeds 45 minutes.
Whirlpool and others would shut the heater down after the thermal hold or only run it for a short time. The cycle and wiring was such that going above 140-150 was unlikely.
The very hot water did not damage the racks, machine or dishes. The only thing it did do was cause the yellow sump boots (not the black ones from what I've seen) to deteriorate after 25-30 years daily use.
Personally if everyone was like me all dishwasher would aim for 180*F water in the main wash. Get a fixed 30-45 minute main wash and run a 550-800 watt heater the whole time.
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