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Thread Number: 95782
/ Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
Maytag LA211 |
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| Post# 1204207 4/27/2024 at 23:26 by William8 (Michigan) | ||
I recently have been finding grey/black spots on a couple pieces of clothing, after seeing this thread:
www.automaticwasher.org/c... I decided to take my agitator out and check. This is what I found, not nealy as bad as the post above, but similar. The last two photos are after cleaning. After cleanup, you can see how corroded it is, so I don't want to try to take apart further. | ||
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| Post# 1204210 , Reply# 1 4/27/2024 at 23:58 by William8 (Michigan) | ||
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So I did a couple test loads (no clothes), removed agitator, and got a little grease/gunk build up around the base of the agitator shaft.
Wiped that off and did two loads of laundry. No spots on clothes, and just a spec of grease. Not sure if the seal is leaking or not. Hopefully that was just gunk buildup, and not grease, as it did come off my hands quite easily with soap and water. I have never needed any repairs on this machine since buying it new 35 years ago in 1989. If it is still leaking grease, i may have to finally replace it. Does anyone know how many Cubic feet this machine can hold? The manual does not say. I've looked at new machines, and even the 5 cubic ft. tubs look smaller than mine. Wondering what size I would need to come close to this one, as much as I hate to part with it, and buy modern junk. I could also get a new Maytag seal for $12. Does it need to be taken apart any farther to change it? Or if you just remove the spring clip and washer, can the seal be removed and replaced. | ||
Post# 1204274 , Reply# 2 4/28/2024 at 20:37 by combo52  (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Helical Dr., Maytag leaving grease spots on clothing
You have a very serious problem on your hands. It needs a major rebuild. It may need a new transmission, depending on the condition of the shaft usually when grease starts coming up water is already in the transmission.
35 years is a very good run for a machine unless you want to get into a very costly difficult repair, it’s time for a new washer. I think this is just a standard capacity machine so it’s around 2 ft.³ maybe 2 1/3. Any new top load washer you buy is bigger unless you get a little compact machine. Best new machine is a Speed Queen front load washer, but costly, if you want a traditional top loader again at Speed Queen TC five would be your best Bet if you want something similar to the Maytags durability but a little better performance and much larger capacity. John | ||
| Post# 1204277 , Reply# 3 4/28/2024 at 21:53 by qsd-dan (West) | ||
Your 211 has the standard capacity tub. The large capacity tub is 3.2 cubic feet so I'd say yours is probably in the high 2's, maybe 2.8 or 2.9.
It's up to you on how far to dig into the machine. You'll be without a washer for a while but could always find a cheap used one while digging into this one. Some are passionate about restoring like new while others are quick to buy something else and move on with life. | ||
| Post# 1204279 , Reply# 4 4/28/2024 at 23:10 by William8 (Michigan) | ||
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Thanks @Qsd-dan. It's odd, when we looked in the stores mine looked larger. I measured, and it appears to be 2.2 to 2.6 cubic feet.
I see you replied in the old thread I linked to above, do you agree this is shot? The link above claimed it was just gunk, not grease. Hard to tell, but it cleaned up easy. It's starting to rust on the top lid and cover, so I'm not willing to put much money or time into a repair. Even Speed Queens are getting bad reviews these days. What is a good mainstream brand? I keep reading LG's are the most reliable, followed by Whirlpool and the rebranded Maytags, etc. My wife insists on a top loader, so that settles that part. | ||
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Post# 1204286 , Reply# 5 4/29/2024 at 07:49 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Possible new top load washers
Speed Queen is clearly the most reliable brand, has a servicing warranty dealer for Speed Queen for the Washington DC area. We don’t do one warranty call a month problems are nonexistent on new Speed Queen’s and there’s darn few problems even after their 10 or 15 years old.
Online reviews are not an accurate way to get reliability information. You’ll only get the occasional person that complains about a problem they had. Next Best choice on new top loader would be a Maytag or whirlpool product, which are union made in Ohio whirlpool still the largest builder of top loading washers in the world. LG Samsung, GE will all get the job done. They’re basically throwaway machines if you have trouble with them, but you may get 5 to 20 years out of them with a few or no problems if you don’t mind the idea of having to throw it away when you have trouble with it. Your machine is basically shot. You don’t get a buildup under the agitator like that from poor washing habits that’s not mineral buildup that’s grease and oil coming out of the transmission. John. | ||
| Post# 1204300 , Reply# 6 4/29/2024 at 11:37 by William8 (Michigan) | ||
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[QUOTE] Online reviews are not an accurate way to get reliability information. You’ll only get the occasional person that complains about a problem they had. [/QUOTE]
That's true for all brands, and the amount of negative reviews I read for Speed Queen has me nervous about spending almost $1500 for one, but I do plan on looking at them. What is the difference between the TR5 and TR3, they look to have identical specs, but a shorter warranty on the TR3. Seems to me all SQ models used to have a longer warranty? Whirlpool/Maytag was my next choice, but several sites (not reviews) with service people claim LG is better, which shocked me. There are only two of us here, we do about 3 loads a week. | ||
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Post# 1204302 , Reply# 7 4/29/2024 at 12:23 by chetlaham (United States) |
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 Two things- the bad reviews are coming from the TR series which does not clean heavily soiled clothes anywhere near as well as the TC-5. Second, those that gravitate toward Speed Queen tend to have strong, vocal personalities. The few times a problem does arise (big or small) others end up knowing about it. Speed Queen voices are always the loudest. Vs GE which are typically found in rental units where a break down results in repair or replacement by the property owner where the renter does not have shop or spend extra money for a new washer.
I have a Speed Queen AWN412 which is mechanically identical to the TC5 purchased in 2013 around Halloween.
Having done between one to two loads of laundry a day because I have a passion for clean clothes and linens my Speed Queen to date has zero repairs with no troubles. The machine has not even physically moved an centimeter for 10 years despite the occasional imbalance caused by user error ie washing a single bathroom rug. It runs just as good as the day I ran its first load.
Performance wise its the best washer I've ever owned. Meticulously cleaned, well rinsed, well spun out lint free clothes in half an hour's time.
Given that you wash 3 loads a week would explain why your Maytag lasted 35 years. My Speed Queen is still running at about 10 loads a week for 10 years, meaning the TC-5 will theoretically last at least 33 years. Speed Queen front load could exceed 50 based on their construction.
Maytag dependable cares are known as one of the most durable, longest lasting washers ever built. The only thing that will sincerely come close is a Speed Queen.
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| Post# 1204303 , Reply# 8 4/29/2024 at 12:39 by William8 (Michigan) | ||
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"I have a Speed Queen AWN412 which is mechanically identical to the TC5 purchased in 2013 around Halloween."
Doesn't the TC5 have an electronic board, rather than mechanical timer and solenoids like the AWN412? We used to do much more laundry with the Maytag. But now it's just the wife and I. I think it lasted much longer because it's a tank, built like the old Speed Queens. Corrosion seems to be the issue now, not surprisingly after 35 years. | ||
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Post# 1204304 , Reply# 9 4/29/2024 at 13:03 by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions) |
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| Post# 1204306 , Reply# 10 4/29/2024 at 14:06 by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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Stay far away from the TR series, they don't perform well. The TC5 performs like your Maytag, just with a bigger tub...minus the lint filter and water level control.
The TC5003 uses an electronic board and greatly limits one to flexibility. Speed Queen does have a timer model, this site has good pictures of it. www.appliancesolutionsmn.... You can also try to find a used model locally made before 2018 that has a mechanical timer and lots of great flexibility options. | ||
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Post# 1204308 , Reply# 11 4/29/2024 at 14:18 by chetlaham (United States) |
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The TC5 does have have electronics- however the motor, pump, belt, transmission, brake, seals, inner tub, outer tub, suspension, frame, water valaves, and agitator are all identical. Electronic controls in Speed Queens are reliable and are easy to replace if they did give you problems.
Harder to replace components like the transmission and seals are not known the fail prematurely in Speed Queens- they will last without trouble. On the other hand the splutch, shifters and seals in GE and Whirlpool VM washers are not known to be as durable. | ||
| Post# 1204315 , Reply# 12 4/29/2024 at 15:13 by William8 (Michigan) | ||
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Thanks. GE and Samsung are not even being considerd.
Even here I am getting mixed opinions on the Speed Queeens. Only one recommended model at $1500. Or a commmercial machine, same price, if I can even get one. What about Maytag or Wirlpool commercial units? Just under a grand. www.homedepot.com/p/Mayta... www.homedepot.com/p/Whirlpool-3-... | ||
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Post# 1204316 , Reply# 13 4/29/2024 at 15:36 by chetlaham (United States) |
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The mixed opinions are mostly about the the TR series. Most here agree the TC5 is superior in longevity, durability and warranty compared to any other modern top load washer.
The links you posted while of Whirlpool's commercial and heavy duty line are internally almost identical to their cheapest machines. The differences are only very slight adding little of benefit for the large jump in price. Commercial VMW offerings are IMO nothing more than a gimmick. | ||
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Post# 1204317 , Reply# 14 4/29/2024 at 15:47 by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.) |
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I’d recommend an Amana NTW4516FW. I have a sister ship Roper RTW4516FW that is 5 years old with zero problems. These are simple TL’s that are just about as close as you’ll get these days to your current Maytag TL. On the Lowes website these washers have a 89% user satisfaction rate.
There are quite a few YT videos you can watch about these machines. I purchased mine because of one of these videos by an AW member Eugene whose member name is Lorainfurniture. I believe he’s an appliance dealer and repairman. At the time I purchased my Roper Eugene gave these machines a good review. Eddie CLICK HERE TO GO TO ea56's LINK | ||
| Post# 1204405 , Reply# 15 5/1/2024 at 12:19 by William8 (Michigan) | ||
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Post# 1204407 , Reply# 16 5/1/2024 at 12:29 by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.) |
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Hi William,
Yes, the Amana will do a full fill rinse on the Norma/Heavy cycle on the Auto Sense Fill. You can also select Deep Water Fill and it will fill right up to the top and the turn over is just like a traditional ‘Old School” TL. I always use the Normal/Heavy cycle with Auto Sense fill and get excellent results without excessive water usage. Eddie | ||
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Post# 1204411 , Reply# 17 5/1/2024 at 15:54 by RyneR1988 (Indianapolis) |
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Adding onto reply #16
If you want something like the Amana washer but with a few more options, go for the Whirlpool WTW4816FW. I have that washer myself. I was disenchanted with this platform of washer for many years, but this machine won me back over. I was in a bind and needed a washer quickly, and the machines that were my first and second choices felt out of reach financially. So, I took a chance on this one and I'm glad I did. It's similar to the Amana Eddie mentioned, but it adds a soil level knob so the user can increase or decrease agitation time in addition to the cycle that's selected. I find this feature useful because, for instance, I might want the performance of the heavy duty cycle, which is especially accurate on the auto sense fill, but might not want the full 30 minutes of agitation time the heavy soil level provides, so will turn that down to light which shaves some time off the cycle. Eddie's machine is a good one though, it just doesn't have the soil level selector and a few less cycle options, so if those don't matter to you, definitely go for that machine as it's a bit cheaper than mine.
hope this helps. Ryne | ||
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Post# 1204412 , Reply# 18 5/1/2024 at 16:01 by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.) |
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| Post# 1204426 , Reply# 19 5/1/2024 at 18:31 by William8 (Michigan) | ||
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How long are the cycle times on these machines with the full fill rinse? My current machine I set to agitate 8-10 minutes, and the full cycle is about 30 minutes. 25 if I set it to warm as it fills twice as fast.
I figure I have a little time too decide, as no more grease/gunk has shown up after another load today. I removed the agitator to inspect. That's three regular loads after the 2 test loads. Thanks for the replies. | ||
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Post# 1204429 , Reply# 20 5/1/2024 at 18:54 by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.) |
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Using the Normal/Heavy cycle with Auto Sense fill and hot water the cycle takes 74 mins to complete. I’ve never specifically timed the wash portion of the cycle, but I’d estimate it to be between 25-30 mins, including the fill time. The WTW4816FW that Ryne owns may have shorter cycle times using the Soil Level selector set for light to med soil. My Roper RTW4516FW doesn’t have this feature and uses max time for the wash portion of the Normal/Heavy cycle.
Using the Normal/Regular cycle the cycle time is about 34-36mins, but there is only a spray rinse. This cycle is fine for lightly soiled loads, but I prefer the longer Normal/Heavy cycle with the longer cycle time of 74 mins. Eddie | ||
| Post# 1204430 , Reply# 21 5/1/2024 at 19:06 by William8 (Michigan) | ||
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Wish I could edit, have to wait 30 minutes for a new post?
74 minutes? I knew the new machines were slower, but didn't expect that much difference. Seems like agitating the clothes that long would be hard on them. They also have this one: www.lowes.com/pd/Amana-3-... But I don't like the tub, or it's plastic bottom. Looked at my neighbor's stainless tub (Kenmore/Whirlpool), and realised the stainless tubs on the mainstream machines aren't really stainless. Magnets stick, and they rust on the seam. | ||
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Post# 1204432 , Reply# 22 5/1/2024 at 20:35 by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 1204438 , Reply# 23 5/2/2024 at 00:25 by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.) |
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| Post# 1204464 , Reply# 24 5/2/2024 at 12:47 by William8 (Michigan) | ||
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Did a load this morning, had a line of grease splatter under the agitator again. No spots on the clothes luckily. I think that only happens if they get sucked under the agitator plate. But it's definetily shot.
I've seen the videos on the Amana, but hadn't seen the one Eddie linked to. That was kinda scary the way he keeps harping on it lasting only 2-3 years. I did find this video: He tears it down, and does say the Maytag commercial machines are built better. I was also ineterested in the Speed Queen commercial model: 44 minute cycle, that's EXACTLY like the cycle in my Maytag. Not sure if my local appliance dealer will sell either commercial machine to me. I prefer the dealer to the big box store. They match their prices, and service what they sell. It's where we got the Maytag. | ||
| Post# 1204576 , Reply# 25 5/3/2024 at 22:52 by William8 (Michigan) | ||
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You have all been very helpful. I purchased a TC5003WN today, it will be delivered in a week. But I have some concerns and questions. See thread here:
www.automaticwasher.org/c... Thanks, | ||
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Post# 1204793 , Reply# 26 5/6/2024 at 16:37 by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.) |
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Here’s another YT video from Lorian Furniture about the lowest priced Whirlpool sourced TL washers like my Roper RTW4516FW. The commentary by Eugene is quite impressive regarding the estimated longevity of these washer’s. Based upon the usage this particular machine has received in a commerical usage setting I expect that my Roper should easily last me 10 to 15 years with the light usage of 3-4 loads a week that our machine receives. It confirms my opinion about these Whirlpool based TL’s.
Eddie ?si=uu6D4FCXQXOumI4x | ||
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Post# 1204807 , Reply# 27 5/6/2024 at 21:00 by RyneR1988 (Indianapolis) |
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Reply #26
This video was what gave me the final push to give one of these washers another try. As you may or may not know, I owned one before the used direct drive I had for a while. The VMW had a problem after about 6 years where it got stuck between drain and spin. It just buzzed and sat there. Sounded exactly like it was hung up between modes.
An appliance tech told me over the phone not to even bother trying to fix the machine, that it was the gearbox that had failed and it wasn't worth repairing. After learning more about how these particular washers work, I suspect that guy didn't know what the hell he was talking about, and that it was likely the mode shifter that had failed, a relatively easy and cheap repair. I will never again take the word of a repair tech who won't even come diagnose the machine. What a crock. If I hadn't just taken his word for it and instead found someone else, it is very possible I could still be using that same washer today, as it was bought new in 2016. That whole situation also ignited in me an undeserved dislike of these machines for several years. I think people throw these washers away too prematurely. Many components on them, such as the mode shifter, splutch, and suspension rods can easily be fixed. But since the appliance industry has designated them as throw-away machines not worth repairing, very few of them live out their full lifespans. Ryne | ||
| Post# 1204814 , Reply# 28 5/6/2024 at 22:53 by William8 (Michigan) | ||
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I did check out the Amana at the local appliance shop. I couldn't get past the way the tub moves around so easily from side to side, seemed very poorly suspended. So did the GE and Maytag/Whirlpools.
I went with a Speed Queen, as stated above. $1150, free delivery & installation, free haul away, free SQ hose extension kit ($89 retail). Plus they service what they sell, I won't have to deal with any third party warranty work, like I would with Lowes or Best Buy. I was really surprised. The Amana was over $600 after delivery and buying an extension. | ||
| Post# 1204815 , Reply# 29 5/6/2024 at 23:01 by William8 (Michigan) | ||
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Post# 1204985 , Reply# 30 5/8/2024 at 21:32 by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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New top load washer
Hi William, you definitely Made the better choice getting the speed Queen TC five, while the basic stuff from whirlpool is very good for the money. They are basically throwaway washers because of the low cost. People aren’t going to pay to fix them and they’re only going to have a life of 10 to 15 years.
The thing that Eddie doesn’t mention is, he’s on his second machine the first one only lasted four or five years, The main bearings failed, which would require a complete transmission change. Had he spent the money on a Speed Queen he would be money ahead compared to buying two whirlpools already. I would still recommend a Speed Queen front load washer on a pedestal. It would pay for itself overtime, especially with an electric water heater and an electric dryer as it spins the clothes so much dryer Nearly as good a deal would be a Maytag or whirlpool front load washer on a pedestal, they are great performers just may not have the very long life of a Speed Queen front loader instead of getting 20 to 35 years out of a washer. You only get 10 to 15 years whirlpool product. John | ||
| Post# 1204994 , Reply# 31 5/8/2024 at 22:47 by William8 (Michigan) | ||
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Post# 1204997 , Reply# 32 5/8/2024 at 23:51 by chetlaham (United States) |
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Speed Queen front loaders and many other US front loaders are fundamentally flawed in not having an onboard heater. A good (real) front load washers allow the wash water to be gradually heated to a user selected temperature/cycle. Also the fact the in long runs the water fill might enough up room temperature when selected to hot. A Speed Queen top load washer gives you a real unadulterated hot wash.
Another thing I want to point out about the TC5- they do a great wash cycle in about 25 minutes. TR washer takes at least 60 minutes (cycle + heavy wash option) to achieve mediocre wash results. Given that you'd need more detergent to get reasonable results, you'd need an extra rinse (12minutes 30 seconds) you're basically flirting with a 90 minute wash. | ||
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Post# 1205020 , Reply# 33 5/9/2024 at 06:53 by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Speed Queen front load washers
Are kind of in a class by themselves and they’re faster, my newer Speed Queen only takes 65 minutes on the heavy cycle with a pre-wash and an added third rinse.
There are short cycles that only take about 35 minutes for things that are lightly soiled. I understand though getting along with ones spouse that’s probably the most important thing and the Speed Queen is quite expensive and it’s overkill for anybody over 60 years old. You’ll never wear it out. I have four front load washers hooked up at my home and six top loaders , the front loaders get almost all the use Two of them have Boosted heat cycles. I’ve tried them several times. They don’t do anything that as far as having cleaner laundry just seems to be a waste of time and electricity. Approximately 80% of front load washer sold in the United States have booster heaters. I can tell you from experience that almost no one ever uses them among our customer base most people don’t even know they have such a setting if I pointed out to them If you have a decent supply of hot water and you know how to use the machine, there’s no reason for a heater in a front load washing machine just another thing to go wrong possibly fry the main board. John | ||
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Post# 1205037 , Reply# 34 5/9/2024 at 13:48 by chetlaham (United States) |
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Front Load Washers With Heaters I strongly have to disagree with this statement: "They don’t do anything that as far as having cleaner laundry just seems to be a waste of time and electricity."
The best clothes washing results on earth by far take place when cold water is gradually heated up to a select temperature over a period of time. This lets detergents work in stages treating all soil types in the process. European detergent are formulated and have been perfected to work in gradually heated water validating the concept many times over. Further there are tremendous energy efficiency gains by heating a small amount of water inside the horizontal access tub rather than idling a large tank while heat is wasted away in piping. The same benefits of cleaning and energy efficiency can and should be stretched to US front loaders.
If everyone were like me all US front loaders would have at at least a 1500 watt built in heater that would be used in all cycles except a dedicated cold wash only setting. Water would be heated from tap cold to somewhere between 70*F and 195*F depending on the fabric type. Otherwise would be inconceivable, even BOL machines would offer targeted water heating. I hope the day comes when when nearly all cycle start using the onboard heater.
Relying on an external water heater (in a front load washer) is a pointless waste of energy. By the time the cold water is pushed out of the pipes and hot water enters the tub where it becomes diluted the wash water is much cooler than the setting of the water heater, if not lukewarm, defeating the intended purpose. | ||
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Post# 1205060 , Reply# 35 5/9/2024 at 20:10 by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Reply number 34
I have yet to see any consumer testing agency suggest any other things that you are saying are true machines clean beautifully in water around 100° with modern detergents hotter Water is just a waste of energy and hard on the clothing.
Sorry Chet, you just can’t make up things to suit yourself. John | ||
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Post# 1205061 , Reply# 36 5/9/2024 at 20:27 by chetlaham (United States) |
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If you choose to ignore 80% of the testing agencies, manufacturing and consumer market around the globe yes I may (key word) may agree with you're stance. Till then all the data says onboard water heating is superior.
I'd also like to hear how you're going to get 35*F cold water in a winter climate to get to 100*F without an onboard heater. | ||
| Post# 1205067 , Reply# 37 5/9/2024 at 21:37 by William8 (Michigan) | ||
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Post# 1205078 , Reply# 38 5/10/2024 at 05:25 by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK) |
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A hot fill machine is a novelty here.
We don't use hot cycles often anymore and as our water is heated as we use it it makes no sense to have a hot fill unless you have free hot water of course!
Most of our washers heat from cold ok I know we have 220v as standard but its horses for courses your machines and detergent work very different to ours. Having had a SQ FL which was wired for 2x2000 watt heaters as it was meant to be hard wired into 30amp supply I simply removed the 1 heater from the relay switch it took a little longer but that was beneficial to the wash cycle,It used to hold the time while it heated which was necessary as it was connected to cold fill only via a Y piece. The Sani cycle is brilliant for removing stains from whites I cannot imagine never using it but this is my opinion only your milage may vary... | ||
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