GE Sells to Haier
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The $64,000 Question: Will this ultimately improve Haier or degrade GE? I know Haier has been keen to improve their image, their appliances, and their sales in the US.
mrb627
Well-known member
Hmmm...
Doesn't Haier own Fisher and Paykel now too?
Malcolm
Doesn't Haier own Fisher and Paykel now too?
Malcolm
The sale is still subject to approval by Hair stockholders and regulatory issues.It is sad-drather GE appliance just go out of business.
GE Appliance Divison Sold To Haier
Yay, I knew that it would either go to Haier, LG or Samsung.
I am glad it went to Haier because more American [ many union jobs ] will be saved this way. Haier does not have major manufacturing capacity in this country so that may bode well for keeping some of GEs old factories running here. If one of the Korean companies had gotten it more appliances would have likely just come from Korea.
And about now I am sick and tired of the cheap Korean appliances, yesterday I had to install a new heating element in a full sized Samsung dryer. The SS dryer is basically a copy of a WP built 27" dryer, but it is so cheaply built, you can not believe how much thinner everything is compared to a WP dryer [ and believe me WP dryers are already thin enough ] I cant believe anyone that has ever worked on or done a direct comparison of LG and SS washers, dryers, refs etc would ever buy one. I most cases I would estimate that the Korean appliances will end up having about 1/2 the useful life spans of the WP built stuff to say nothing of washers and dryers built by Speed Queen.
John L.
Yay, I knew that it would either go to Haier, LG or Samsung.
I am glad it went to Haier because more American [ many union jobs ] will be saved this way. Haier does not have major manufacturing capacity in this country so that may bode well for keeping some of GEs old factories running here. If one of the Korean companies had gotten it more appliances would have likely just come from Korea.
And about now I am sick and tired of the cheap Korean appliances, yesterday I had to install a new heating element in a full sized Samsung dryer. The SS dryer is basically a copy of a WP built 27" dryer, but it is so cheaply built, you can not believe how much thinner everything is compared to a WP dryer [ and believe me WP dryers are already thin enough ] I cant believe anyone that has ever worked on or done a direct comparison of LG and SS washers, dryers, refs etc would ever buy one. I most cases I would estimate that the Korean appliances will end up having about 1/2 the useful life spans of the WP built stuff to say nothing of washers and dryers built by Speed Queen.
John L.
Yep, it's true: We just play around with money...
-- Dave
-- Dave
Haier
Haier is the brand with the pretty much worst reputation over here... At least they have been known to be an absolut BOL manufacturer...
Haier is the brand with the pretty much worst reputation over here... At least they have been known to be an absolut BOL manufacturer...
Haier...
Well... hold on a second... I'll kill myself and be right back..
Well... hold on a second... I'll kill myself and be right back..
iheartmaytag
Well-known member
As Adele would say
This is the end.
This is the end.
user 3941
Well-known member
I'm more worried about Appliance Park. If they keep that and the workers, I'll feel much better. I hate to see this American icon leave American ownership but not much you can do. They obviously wanted out of the appliance business pretty badly. It's sad, but such is the times.
I've always been a loyal GE customer so I'll have to see how things go. Let's hope all that changes is the ownership.
I've always been a loyal GE customer so I'll have to see how things go. Let's hope all that changes is the ownership.
Absolutely disgraceful.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...siness-qingdao-haier_5698b2b6e4b0778f46f8f545
Looks like my next range will be a WP/MT instead.
Got the last American GE dishwasher. I'll enjoy that.
Now all we got left is Team Whirlpool.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...siness-qingdao-haier_5698b2b6e4b0778f46f8f545
Looks like my next range will be a WP/MT instead.
Got the last American GE dishwasher. I'll enjoy that.
Now all we got left is Team Whirlpool.
murando531
Well-known member
I've never been a GE fan at all, so I could care less either way. I do however agree with John, I'm glad the sale went to a company other than Samsung or LG. There is no more vile corporate existence in this world than SS and their blatant and admitted rip offs of every successful manufacturers work, whether it be electronics or appliances. LG isn't as terrible in that regard because they do innovate in their own way with certain things, but they're already too big for their pants to be taking in a brand as big as GE.
I also agree that every SS appliance I've seen disassembled in person was an LG or Whirlpool ripoff, although with plastics and tin metal that have the same quality as toys bought at the Dollar Tree.
I also agree that every SS appliance I've seen disassembled in person was an LG or Whirlpool ripoff, although with plastics and tin metal that have the same quality as toys bought at the Dollar Tree.
iheartmaytag
Well-known member
My mother was always a loyal GE customer. There was a time she would not have anything but GE in her house. Slowly as GE began to become disinterested in the customers that made them, we started migrating to Maytag, now Whirlpool.
This last range I purchased was a GE, Not up to the standards as the original P-7, but still a good range. GE at one time had the top rated Washer/Dryer on the market as well as the Top rated Dishwasher the GSD 1200.
I guess there is just more profit in a locomotive engine or MRI machine than a Filter-flo washer.
Good-bye GE. I shall never buy ye again.
This last range I purchased was a GE, Not up to the standards as the original P-7, but still a good range. GE at one time had the top rated Washer/Dryer on the market as well as the Top rated Dishwasher the GSD 1200.
I guess there is just more profit in a locomotive engine or MRI machine than a Filter-flo washer.
Good-bye GE. I shall never buy ye again.
More than likely
Haier will quietly wind down operations in Appliance park and other locales with product coming from low wage "competitive" factories.
And as surely as night follows day, WH among others will do the monkey see, monkey do and follow Haiers lead.
Naturally, Wall Street will go into a frenzy praising GE for "focusing on growth areas" while "reducing exposure to cyclical lines of business". Et Cetera.
Corporate whores they are, no more no less.
Haier will quietly wind down operations in Appliance park and other locales with product coming from low wage "competitive" factories.
And as surely as night follows day, WH among others will do the monkey see, monkey do and follow Haiers lead.
Naturally, Wall Street will go into a frenzy praising GE for "focusing on growth areas" while "reducing exposure to cyclical lines of business". Et Cetera.
Corporate whores they are, no more no less.
mrb627
Well-known member
Good Question
How long has Haier owned F&P? And has their product suffered as a result?
Malcolm
How long has Haier owned F&P? And has their product suffered as a result?
Malcolm
GE Appliance factories stateside are unionized
foremost that is the kiss of death per Wall Street Journal.
Second, this allows GE to wipe their hands of 12,000 Appliance employees. They get fast cash, offload pension liabilities and can buy back more stock to keep shareholders happy.
Haier already has facilities in low cost China. Why would they want to continue to pay union scale wages to make pretty much the same thing for higher cost?
foremost that is the kiss of death per Wall Street Journal.
Second, this allows GE to wipe their hands of 12,000 Appliance employees. They get fast cash, offload pension liabilities and can buy back more stock to keep shareholders happy.
Haier already has facilities in low cost China. Why would they want to continue to pay union scale wages to make pretty much the same thing for higher cost?
David Bowie and now GE... a sad year so far. :-/
murando531
Well-known member
And Alan Rickman. :/
brisnat81
Well-known member
Its been at least 5 years now since Haier bought F&P and all the manufacturing moved offshore to Thailand.
Across three houses we have 4 F&P fridges, 2 that were made 20km from where I live and 2 that came from Thailand. Both products are identical. The oldest is now 11 years old without a service.
Over Christmas, I've just helped a friend pick out a new French door fridge for their new house and again the shelves and all the components are the same as they were on the Australian made stuff. The new 2016 models have much lower energy consumption, but otherwise the structural parts haven't changed.
Mum's oven that was bought pre Haier buy out has only just been superseded by a new model that has a lower profile control panel, but internally is exactly the same as the old one.
It seems that Haier was just as interested in getting the quality brand of F&P not their intellectual property. Most of the products we get in Australia come from Thailand these days, Cars, appliances etc. They seem to rapidly becoming what Japan was in the 80's, a low cost manufacturer of high quality appliances.
We have 3 20yo F&P dishwashers left in the office and in my conversations with the F&P repair men, if anything the build quality has gone up since manufacturing went off shore.
Across three houses we have 4 F&P fridges, 2 that were made 20km from where I live and 2 that came from Thailand. Both products are identical. The oldest is now 11 years old without a service.
Over Christmas, I've just helped a friend pick out a new French door fridge for their new house and again the shelves and all the components are the same as they were on the Australian made stuff. The new 2016 models have much lower energy consumption, but otherwise the structural parts haven't changed.
Mum's oven that was bought pre Haier buy out has only just been superseded by a new model that has a lower profile control panel, but internally is exactly the same as the old one.
It seems that Haier was just as interested in getting the quality brand of F&P not their intellectual property. Most of the products we get in Australia come from Thailand these days, Cars, appliances etc. They seem to rapidly becoming what Japan was in the 80's, a low cost manufacturer of high quality appliances.
We have 3 20yo F&P dishwashers left in the office and in my conversations with the F&P repair men, if anything the build quality has gone up since manufacturing went off shore.
user 3941
Well-known member
That's my feeling basically. As long as the products stay the same (or better) and for me, if they are still built by American workers in Louisville....I'll continue to buy GE appliances. Otherwise I'll probably stick with Whirlpool products.
I've been a union employee for over 10 years so I like to support my fellow members. A few years ago I bought a Ford Fusion...LOVED that car. Got home and realized that it was built in Mexico....I flipped out. Went back to the dealer and got a Focus instead, built in the U.S. The dealer was real good about thankfully. LOL I'm so OCD about that stuff.
I've been a union employee for over 10 years so I like to support my fellow members. A few years ago I bought a Ford Fusion...LOVED that car. Got home and realized that it was built in Mexico....I flipped out. Went back to the dealer and got a Focus instead, built in the U.S. The dealer was real good about thankfully. LOL I'm so OCD about that stuff.
jerrod6
Well-known member
There is not much point hoping that appliances will continue to be made in the USA or any specific country. The product will eventually be made in whatever country is most economical for the company to make them and they may or may not continue to be called GE. Most likely they will be called that for a few years and then the name will fade away...better than them continuing to use the name, like Whirlpool continues to use the KitchenAid name, while producing a product that is nothing like Hobart would produce today.
These appliances were no longer cost competitive for GE. The money can be made in manufacturing and maintaining commercial equipment. The last MRI I had performed was done inside a GE unit. More money in selling that to health care providers than selling a washer or DW to residential consumers.
Anyone see that GE commercial showing the guy happy because he is programing? Programming the way trains operate- not the way washers function.
It's just the way it is.
These appliances were no longer cost competitive for GE. The money can be made in manufacturing and maintaining commercial equipment. The last MRI I had performed was done inside a GE unit. More money in selling that to health care providers than selling a washer or DW to residential consumers.
Anyone see that GE commercial showing the guy happy because he is programing? Programming the way trains operate- not the way washers function.
It's just the way it is.
GE channeled their Haier power.
GE to Haier
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">I'm reminded of the Far Side comic where the goldfish stand outside their bowl, their castle ornament ablaze, lamenting, "Well, thank God we all made it out in time...'course, now we're equally screwed." </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">I also think of AMC, who ran a radio ad sometime in the mid-eighties, offering zero-percent interest financing on new purchases. After the ad, the DJ murmured something about "I think 'zero interest' is exactly the problem." </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">Much as it pains us (I still wish I could shop at Montgomery Ward--and hush, Ralph ;-) ) to watch it all unfold, I'm not sure there's a way to win these situations (and indeed, it depends on whose definition of "winning" it is to which you're subscribing). </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">In market segments that are saturated, even venerable brands succumb. Sometimes it's because you can't enhance your profitability in an already marginal situation. You can try to do a lot of things to enhance short-term profitability (renegotiate contracts, trim workforce, improve efficiency, convince everyone to replace everything they own, or engineer the stuff you produce to have a two-year lifespan--and so forth). </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">Eventually, the problem is there's already a world full of what you're selling, and other people in other places are making it for less, maybe with more features than what you can add for the same pricepoint. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">There are a lot of peripheral issues here that may affect the long-term outcome, and I think that workforce costs are going to be huge contributors. I'll be keen to see if, like Hyundai, Haier might regard this as an opportunity for on-shore production, and play up the "Look, we build it here!" angle. Even if they do, though, I have my doubts as to whether the job force would be preserved--and assuredly not at the same pay/benefits level. I cite Interstate Brands' bankruptcy and reemergence as Hostess Brands, LLC, essentially as a way they could reboot, and get out of BCGTM contract terms (and pensions, and other commitments with which I'm sure they'd prefer to dispense). </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">From an engineering perspective, if we assume that Haier behaves more like Lenovo (who had been building laptops for IBM anyway, but then acquired the rights to the entire ThinkPad line when IBM discontinued PC production), then they'll use this opportunity to inherit a strong brand with good products in place, from which they can eventually develop the next generation. That may be soon; that may be later. Chances are, they'll keep a good thing going for a while--Lenovo managed to cling to that original ThinkPad design for a really long time, before finally redesigning it a couple of years ago. It was a good design from the start, so they stuck with it. Given the F&P example, this seems to align. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">But the tooling and such is in Appliance Park, and Haier is somewhere else--whereas Lenovo had been doing it all along; they (literally) just had to switch the sticker. So, I rather expect that a rebadged Haier might be more likely. Still, if they continue to produce F&Ps in Thailand with the original designs, there's hope. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">Seeing as Haier exists in a sphere with cheaper labor costs than GE, and as they are already the metaphorical D&M of their field, with rebadges aplenty for other sourcers, I think they have little need to keep Appliance Park around in the long-term, unless--like I said--they feel the need to make in-roads under the "Assembled in the U.S.A." angle. We'll see. (I hope I'm wrong.) </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">I don't think there was another way to keep the appliances division going for GE--no one else has the capital to take on a behemoth like that in the U.S., and the U.S. field of appliance manufacturers presently could only be tepidly termed an oligopoly at best. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">In many ways, and many posts prior discussing it, it's apparent that this war was fought and decided long ago, anyway--the first waves arrived in the seventies when Westinghouse divested; in 1980 when GM called it a day; in the mid-eighties where Hobart hung-up the residential-products apron, and in 1986 when D&M--king of the badge-design--was teleported to the Electroluxian homeworld. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">GE could have packed it in, too, but they seemed to be primarily a capital engine that carried on in the spirit of the great diversified corporations of the sixties. Money flowed to and fro, amongst the arms of the company that needed it at any given time. I almost think they were sufficiently capitalized to keep motoring along for quite some time, in a state of relative obliviousness. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">Nevertheless, the capital engine tends to prune underperforming branches occasionally, and then the capital shuts off. Can you guess another GE division that went defunct once the hedgeclippers were produced? Montgomery Ward. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">The stage seems to have been set long ago for the ultimate outcome of (WCI) Electrolux, Whirlpool, and Maytag persisting, with Maytag ultimately playing the role of AMC to Whirlpool's Chrysler in the opera, such as it were.</span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">I'm reminded of the Far Side comic where the goldfish stand outside their bowl, their castle ornament ablaze, lamenting, "Well, thank God we all made it out in time...'course, now we're equally screwed." </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">I also think of AMC, who ran a radio ad sometime in the mid-eighties, offering zero-percent interest financing on new purchases. After the ad, the DJ murmured something about "I think 'zero interest' is exactly the problem." </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">Much as it pains us (I still wish I could shop at Montgomery Ward--and hush, Ralph ;-) ) to watch it all unfold, I'm not sure there's a way to win these situations (and indeed, it depends on whose definition of "winning" it is to which you're subscribing). </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">In market segments that are saturated, even venerable brands succumb. Sometimes it's because you can't enhance your profitability in an already marginal situation. You can try to do a lot of things to enhance short-term profitability (renegotiate contracts, trim workforce, improve efficiency, convince everyone to replace everything they own, or engineer the stuff you produce to have a two-year lifespan--and so forth). </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">Eventually, the problem is there's already a world full of what you're selling, and other people in other places are making it for less, maybe with more features than what you can add for the same pricepoint. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">There are a lot of peripheral issues here that may affect the long-term outcome, and I think that workforce costs are going to be huge contributors. I'll be keen to see if, like Hyundai, Haier might regard this as an opportunity for on-shore production, and play up the "Look, we build it here!" angle. Even if they do, though, I have my doubts as to whether the job force would be preserved--and assuredly not at the same pay/benefits level. I cite Interstate Brands' bankruptcy and reemergence as Hostess Brands, LLC, essentially as a way they could reboot, and get out of BCGTM contract terms (and pensions, and other commitments with which I'm sure they'd prefer to dispense). </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">From an engineering perspective, if we assume that Haier behaves more like Lenovo (who had been building laptops for IBM anyway, but then acquired the rights to the entire ThinkPad line when IBM discontinued PC production), then they'll use this opportunity to inherit a strong brand with good products in place, from which they can eventually develop the next generation. That may be soon; that may be later. Chances are, they'll keep a good thing going for a while--Lenovo managed to cling to that original ThinkPad design for a really long time, before finally redesigning it a couple of years ago. It was a good design from the start, so they stuck with it. Given the F&P example, this seems to align. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">But the tooling and such is in Appliance Park, and Haier is somewhere else--whereas Lenovo had been doing it all along; they (literally) just had to switch the sticker. So, I rather expect that a rebadged Haier might be more likely. Still, if they continue to produce F&Ps in Thailand with the original designs, there's hope. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">Seeing as Haier exists in a sphere with cheaper labor costs than GE, and as they are already the metaphorical D&M of their field, with rebadges aplenty for other sourcers, I think they have little need to keep Appliance Park around in the long-term, unless--like I said--they feel the need to make in-roads under the "Assembled in the U.S.A." angle. We'll see. (I hope I'm wrong.) </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">I don't think there was another way to keep the appliances division going for GE--no one else has the capital to take on a behemoth like that in the U.S., and the U.S. field of appliance manufacturers presently could only be tepidly termed an oligopoly at best. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">In many ways, and many posts prior discussing it, it's apparent that this war was fought and decided long ago, anyway--the first waves arrived in the seventies when Westinghouse divested; in 1980 when GM called it a day; in the mid-eighties where Hobart hung-up the residential-products apron, and in 1986 when D&M--king of the badge-design--was teleported to the Electroluxian homeworld. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">GE could have packed it in, too, but they seemed to be primarily a capital engine that carried on in the spirit of the great diversified corporations of the sixties. Money flowed to and fro, amongst the arms of the company that needed it at any given time. I almost think they were sufficiently capitalized to keep motoring along for quite some time, in a state of relative obliviousness. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">Nevertheless, the capital engine tends to prune underperforming branches occasionally, and then the capital shuts off. Can you guess another GE division that went defunct once the hedgeclippers were produced? Montgomery Ward. </span>
<span style="font-family: trebuchet ms,geneva; font-size: 12pt;">The stage seems to have been set long ago for the ultimate outcome of (WCI) Electrolux, Whirlpool, and Maytag persisting, with Maytag ultimately playing the role of AMC to Whirlpool's Chrysler in the opera, such as it were.</span>
Some good points Roto......but I just don't get it when GE-A was so profitable. Maybe not to the level of other GE divisions, but still very profitable to the point they already paid back that 1B in App Park investment twice over.
They could've just let it run on its own. Or partially spun it off with a minor stake.
I expressed my 'feelings' on my Facebook and a few people replied, "meh, washers and microwaves are a distraction."
Really?
I think that's embarrassing then.
How are Mitsubishi and Bosch/Siemens etc. able to have their fingers in so many complimentary and non-complimentary industries and still be capable and successful?
Yet....American companies cannot?
Are we just dumb? Too ADD? Not talented enough? Or too profit and narrow/minded?
Why do we keep selling our [good] assets away?! And to foreigners no doubt? A country that our (blegh) allegedly future-president keeps railing against?
This just really pisses me off. I'm sure I'll cool off. But it is so defeatist and embarrassing.
We, ourselves, are choosing not to make things anymore.
They could've just let it run on its own. Or partially spun it off with a minor stake.
I expressed my 'feelings' on my Facebook and a few people replied, "meh, washers and microwaves are a distraction."
Really?
I think that's embarrassing then.
How are Mitsubishi and Bosch/Siemens etc. able to have their fingers in so many complimentary and non-complimentary industries and still be capable and successful?
Yet....American companies cannot?
Are we just dumb? Too ADD? Not talented enough? Or too profit and narrow/minded?
Why do we keep selling our [good] assets away?! And to foreigners no doubt? A country that our (blegh) allegedly future-president keeps railing against?
This just really pisses me off. I'm sure I'll cool off. But it is so defeatist and embarrassing.
We, ourselves, are choosing not to make things anymore.
gusherb
Well-known member
Glad to have gotten that GE range when we did. It's really the only GE appliance I really like and ever liked. Never was too crazy about them, but nevertheless it's still a shame to see them get sold off, whether it be to Electrosux or Haier. I didn't think of it before, but LG or Crapsung would've been far worse IMO.
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