Thread Number: 33056
What Really is Full Load for a washer? Philosophy
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Post# 497638   2/19/2011 at 13:49 (4,841 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        



Due to endless debates on other threads that Europes smaller volume 24" frame washers wash as much clothes as a larger basket volume American 27" Frame washer I decided today to wash a fuller wash load on the LG WM2501HVA this morning as a test.

Since all the blue jeans came out clean one must conclude I underloaded the machine by non USA folks. ie one could have added more stuff to wash; to chase maybe a 1/2 cent in savings.

Here I placed what to my 50 years experience with FL washers is a rather full load of bluejeans and overalls. Then I weighted them on a great scale and they weighed in as 25 Lbs; I will call it only 24 Lb to allow for no biases. That is about 11Kg. Those jeans are off varied newness, many are old and used for construction. There is 15 pairs of bluejeans and 1 pair of overalls and 7 pairs of socks.

The load sense software of the machine only sensed this as 2 out of 4 bars; ie a 1/2 load.


The full cycle was 55 minutes. The machine looked full before the wash water started; then there was a decent amount of headroom so the stuff would randomly mix.

Three videos will be posted.

It is not clear whether in Europe a wash load like this would be considered wastefull; since one could add more items. Or maybe this is normal European practice of washing 11Kg each time.


This LG washer was just an average sized FL 27" washer I got last fall; 4.2 IEC size. There were no 24" frame washers at any local store.

With this 25 / 24Lb ; 11 Kg load all the items came out clean; they even all fit
in the 1976 Westy dryer too.

My guess is if I placed 28, 30, or 32 Lbs of items; somewhere the wash action must have to decline.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO 3beltwesty's LINK





Post# 497639 , Reply# 1   2/19/2011 at 13:51 (4,841 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
Video during part of rinse with 24Lbs



Video 2 or 3


CLICK HERE TO GO TO 3beltwesty's LINK


Post# 497640 , Reply# 2   2/19/2011 at 13:52 (4,841 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
Video during part of SPIN cycle rinse with 24Lbs

Video 3 of 3

CLICK HERE TO GO TO 3beltwesty's LINK


Post# 497641 , Reply# 3   2/19/2011 at 13:57 (4,841 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
Photo before start of washing



Maybe another test should be run fuller


Post# 497642 , Reply# 4   2/19/2011 at 14:04 (4,841 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
Machine at 49min left in a 55 min cycle



Here is only 6 minutes into the total 55 min cycle.

The water spray has not reached all spots yet; thus the machine still looks sort of full still.

A few minutes later one has the stuff all wet and there is much free room at the top of the basket.


Post# 497643 , Reply# 5   2/19/2011 at 14:10 (4,841 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
RINSE cycle; 24 minutes left



One can straight through to the back of the spin basket with the drum revolving and rinse water being sprayed.


Post# 497644 , Reply# 6   2/19/2011 at 14:13 (4,841 days old) by hoover1100 (U.K.)        
does anyone else

smell a troll around here?

Post# 497646 , Reply# 7   2/19/2011 at 14:16 (4,841 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
SPIN High speed



Here is a shot during the high rpm extract. The clothes of course are now at the outer parts of the spin basket. There is a big donut hole in the middle now.


Post# 497647 , Reply# 8   2/19/2011 at 14:20 (4,841 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
24 LBs done now



Here is the wash load done. With a lessor load the stuff is usually not at the top, ie the detangle scheme makes it drop down,


Post# 497648 , Reply# 9   2/19/2011 at 14:24 (4,841 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
SALEMAN told me that my dryer would be too small



Here is the 24Lb worth of stuff in the 1976 Westinghouse dryer. The slick salesfolks *ALL* told me that I needed a new dryer; ie it would be too small for the LG's "capacity"



Post# 497652 , Reply# 10   2/19/2011 at 14:32 (4,841 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        

 Maybe I am missing something. A troll?  Come on.  He is trying to do exactly what I asked folks to do in the other thread;  Show us pics and vids of fully loaded large washers and tell us how well they wash and rinse.


Post# 497653 , Reply# 11   2/19/2011 at 14:33 (4,841 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
11Kg done and out of dryer



Mountain of items.

This is just a typical sized FL washer sold at Home Depot, Lowes or Sears. It is not even the best brand either.


Post# 497657 , Reply# 12   2/19/2011 at 14:42 (4,841 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
Before wash stack is 0.6 meters tall



Here is a shot with the 11Kg of stuff before washing


Post# 497662 , Reply# 13   2/19/2011 at 14:50 (4,841 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        

jerrod6;

Normally I wash less than this; ie what may preach on this site as so called wastefull. :)

With the constant preaching by non usa folks that we underload; here I just wanted to try a much larger load as a real world test.

I purposely have been saving up the work clothes. I actually have about 3 to 4 times this number of jeans for construction; often bought at just a few dollars per pair.

Even the super dirty jeans I used last weekend in roofing were in this load and they came out clean.

I suppose if I owned a 27" Miele I could wash even more ? :)


Post# 497663 , Reply# 14   2/19/2011 at 14:51 (4,841 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
The Real Issue...

mrb627's profile picture

What is the real issue in comparing the 24" machines to the 27" models?  It sounds like members are claiming that Americans are being wasteful by washing the same amount of clothing in a 27" machine that a 24" machine can handle.  Is this accurate?

 

Malcolm


Post# 497666 , Reply# 15   2/19/2011 at 15:04 (4,841 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
Home washers in the USA were once sold as "20 Lb machine


On another thread I believe "supremewhirlpol" showed washing a giant basket of jeans and it weighed in as something like 20Lbs roughly.

Thus trying a larger load 20 percent larger as a real life test is really not so odd.

Many USA washers were once marketed and marked as "20LB Washers" too; ie about 9 Kg; thus testing a modern machine at 20Lb or 24Lb is interesting since today they are marked with IEC numbers and not weight.

Since most non usa folks here constantly use machines hawked with Kg specs, in this test I used weight and not volume.



Post# 497668 , Reply# 16   2/19/2011 at 15:12 (4,841 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)        

Malcolm this might be the issue but I guess it depends.  I have a 24" Euro machine that I try to use fully loaded, but I don't feel bad if I wash 1  or 2 items I might  need because it will sense the load size after a few minutes and reduce the time of time of each part of the cycle and also use less water for it.  There is also the case where I wash 1 cotton item at nearly 200F and this is a load of 1 item, so I think it is Ok to use it for one or two items if I need them.  So perhaps wasteful depends on how well your washer will detect a small size and make adjustments for it.  Don't Whirlpools  have that dirtiness setting you can use ...more... less....I would guess that less means less time less water.  From the previous vids and info  it seems that the LG senses the load size too so perhaps smaller loads are not a big deal.


Post# 497669 , Reply# 17   2/19/2011 at 15:12 (4,841 days old) by Pingmeep ()        

3beltwesty Most LG washers are marketed as having greater than 10Kg dry linen capacity.

Even my small 2.7 IEC cubic feet washer can handle a load of 10kg.

Not sure what you were trying to prove. ;-)


Post# 497671 , Reply# 18   2/19/2011 at 15:17 (4,841 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
Not a troll, but the facts must hurt.




Matt; the facts must hurt; ie reality hurts. ie the smaller 24" machines basket washes less clothes.

If machines that really hold 50 percent less volume can really wash 11Kg; then please show.

This stuff washed would not even fit into the drum of my 1976 FL westy with its 2.6 cuft spin basket; thus the real "troll" is the constant dogma that the smaller machines wash the same as a larger machines.

24" machine folks have no data; thus the "troll" is the preaching that smaller machines wash the sames amount of clothes.

That is why the US has specs for washers; to prevent trollish hokem. ie protects the public. One cannot LEGALLY make such statements here.


Post# 497672 , Reply# 19   2/19/2011 at 15:19 (4,841 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)        

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Really, is it not the volume that matters rather than the weight of the clothes?  Blue jeans are a heavy, dense material but do not take up that much volume like sheer curtains would but those do not weigh much. 

 

Still I would have divided that load as I wonder how it must smell.  I find when I overload (I don't) the clothes do not smell clean.  I would also be afraid of overheating the dryer. 


Post# 497681 , Reply# 20   2/19/2011 at 15:32 (4,841 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
Both Weight and Volume matter



Both weight and volume are not perfect guides, both matter.

But what else can we use?

using just one is poor too.

If one has fluffy stuff one has a lot of volume and little mass.

If one sewed fishing sinkers in the jeans the machine could have just 8 pairs of blue jeans and the same 11 Kg weight but more room for movement.

All the stuff washed here smells fine; it all washed very well.

There has to be some sort of tracking with the number of jeans washed versus basket size since there has to be space for things to move round. Since non use folks washers are speced in Kg it seems odd that the volume issue is often downplayed.



Thus if this same 11Kg load is placed in a smaller basket that is 2/3's the size the mixing has to be less; unless there is some trick?...

This load of clothes will not fit in the 1976 westy FL drum with a 2.6 cuft basket; the same volume as many 24" frames. Thus one would have to wash less pairs of jeans since the volume is too large.


Post# 497689 , Reply# 21   2/19/2011 at 15:49 (4,841 days old) by dj-gabriele ()        
...members are claiming that Americans are being wasteful...

by washing the same amount of clothing in a 27" machine that a 24" machine can handle. Is this accurate?

EXACTLY THAT!

And without offending anybody I just would like to explain the point again:

The average American load is a half load compared to the European average load, nobody is saying that an American FL machine is wasteful compared to an European one.


Anyway jeans is not a standard cotton load, it's jeans. You should try to put a mixed load of towels, t-shirts, bed sheets and similar other items.

Myself I wouldn't overload my machine with more than 5 pair of jeans because otherwise the denim develops those nasty discolored lines and the fabric is stiff so it needs room to tumble! In this case it's not underloading, it's following care instructions.

11 kg or 24 lbs is the standard capacity for this 24" machine from LG, sold all over the 230 Volts world.
So indeed a small machine can hold the same capacity of a larger one, it all depends on the software that drives it (within certain limits of course!)

Now going back to "standard" and not oversize 24" machines, the average American load fits, and space remains in a "little" 5 kg machine. This was just what we (can I use we) wanted to say.

And of course the machine regulates water and power use!

There were a lot of official tests done here: one of Whirlpool Italy, that can be found on youtube too, shows the machine washing a full load of clothes (8kg) and it consumed 60 litres of water.
When washing 1 kg of clothes, the machine used only 25 litres of water and completed the programme in half the time.

Now:

60/8 = 7,5 litres of water per kg
25/1 = 25 litres of water per kg

this is or not a waste?

It's what everybody is trying to explain.

And to finish up, indeed in a bigger volume you can stuff more clothes, but if the machine isn't designed to handle it, you're not going to obtain a fair result!

Please comment, I wish I've been clear enough!


CLICK HERE TO GO TO dj-gabriele's LINK


Post# 497704 , Reply# 22   2/19/2011 at 16:07 (4,841 days old) by mayfan69 (Brisbane Queensland Australia)        
Anyway jeans is not a standard cotton load, it's jeans.

mayfan69's profile picture
My thoughts exactly Gabriel: i don't think a full jeans is an accurate reflection: a MIXED load would give a better indication.

However, i suspect no matter what was suggested, the 'i'm right' attitude is going to continue.

Leon


Post# 497719 , Reply# 23   2/19/2011 at 16:46 (4,841 days old) by ptcruiser51 (Boynton Beach, FL)        
My factory reps for LG, GE, and Maytag

ptcruiser51's profile picture
All tell me essentially the same thing: When you've loaded the machine, you should be able to shut the door easily without forcing it. If you're pushing, it's overloaded. If not, it will wash whatever's in there satisfactorily if you've selected the correct cycle.

They use either bath towels or king-size bed linens as a measure, since they are of uniform size. You just can't compare 25 pair of mens' sz.40 jeans to 25 pairs of ladies' sz.4 jeans! Ditto with sweats, shirts, et. al.

Goes the same for top-load non-agitator machines.

Off topic, but I just had to share. Yesterday I was doing wash at my apartment's laundry room (TL Maytags). A middle-eastern man was using a 2X4 to cram laundry into one of the machines! I had to leave promptly before I started screaming at him.


Post# 497731 , Reply# 24   2/19/2011 at 17:34 (4,841 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

OK, I have my 3.1 cu. ft. Fridgemore.  My pants size is 40 to 42 x 30.  I can comfortably get 5 or 6 pair of Dockers type of slacks in my washer.  Anymore than that, it erally has a difficult time balancing and tangling is even worse.  the only way I can get more in there without it hving big balancing problems, is if I load the slacks like in a Unimatic, even more extreme actually.  I fold them over in half and then fold them up vertically so they're almost shaped like a pillow.  then I put them in the machine and they pretty much stay that way through the cycle.  My jeans are 42 or 44 X 30 (I like them loose).  I will be washing jeans tomorrow, 4 or 5 pair, and that's about maximum I feel like I SHOULD put in the machine given their weight and size. 

 

3Belt you are obviously a far smaller person in clothing dimension thatn myself.  I odn't think I could get 15 pair of my size jeans in your LG.  also, you look like you took some care and logical approach to placing all those jeans in the tub.  I have found that if you take your time and just don't stuff a whole bunch of stuff in there all at once, the machine balances easier. 

 

And congratulations everything came out clean, I know that load had various soil levels in all the jeans. 

 

Also, thank you for the videos. 


Post# 497732 , Reply# 25   2/19/2011 at 17:45 (4,841 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Cramming Commercial/Laundromat Front Loaders

launderess's profile picture
Happens all the time at our local, and the 50lb Speed Queen at that.

This is quite annoying since it is the only reaons one goes to the place! *LOL*

Last few times it has always been the same bloddy stupid woman. According to the attendent she comes in with huge bin liners of stuff, and then proceeds to cram it all into that one washer. Both times damage was so great the bearings had to be pulled and replaced.

Upon hearing this story I'm like: "you let her do it the first time, what did you think was going to happen when she showed up and started over-loading the machine again? The attendents at this laundry will jump on anyone trying to start a wash near or after "last call", but yet they stand around and allow all sorts of "abuse to go on.



Post# 497733 , Reply# 26   2/19/2011 at 17:48 (4,841 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Nonsense

mrb627's profile picture

Your numbers don't make sense.  We are talking about the same quantity of clothing washed on opposite sides of the pond.  Whether or not I wash in a smaller machine or a larger one.  If the quantity of clothing doesn't change, what is the difference? All the writeups I read on the Miele machines report that one of the first things the owner does is go into the programming and bypass the water efficiency of the machine for maximum fills.

 

 You are claiming that my machine is wasting energy.  I say hogwash.

 

A few years back, I invested in a set of Asko machines.  What a nightmare.  The average load took 90 minutes.  And it went through 5 deep rinses.  Compared to the two rinses on my current American machine.  Talk about wasteful...

 

Malcolm


Post# 497771 , Reply# 27   2/19/2011 at 20:13 (4,841 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        

I'm with Neptunebob. I think you should divide the load. My Bosch HE machine does better if I don't jam pack it even if it is within the clothes weight limit.

Post# 497772 , Reply# 28   2/19/2011 at 20:17 (4,841 days old) by hoover1100 (U.K.)        
I think you should divide the load. My Bosch HE machine doe

Just goes to show dosen't it.

The way the machine 3beltwesty has posted is loaded is considered underloaded in our machines.

But even the cheapest machines sold here don't flinch at it!



Post# 497781 , Reply# 29   2/19/2011 at 20:46 (4,841 days old) by appnut (TX)        
You should try to put a mixed load of towels, t-shirts, bed

appnut's profile picture

Personally, I wouldn't think of washing a load like that with varios fiber weights and such.  I MAY consider washing all that together, but I wouldn't even think of drying all that together.  Everything would dry unevenly.  I wash & dry how a Sears repair man told a neighbor to wash and dry so thihngs dry evenly and don't under or over dry, even with electronic sensor dryers.  Wash & dry similar weight items together.  t-thirs (undershirts) and other undergarments dry at a lower heat and dry at a different rate than towels.  and sheets dry fairly quickly compared to most anything else in my laundry piles. 


Post# 497783 , Reply# 30   2/19/2011 at 20:57 (4,841 days old) by Pingmeep ()        

"I MAY consider washing all that together, but I wouldn't even think of drying all that together. Everything would dry unevenly."

Yup in a traditional air dryer that would likely be the case. With a good condenser dryer (popular in Europe) it seems to work fine on Mixed Fabrics. Many in EU land also line dry at least some of their items as well.


Post# 497801 , Reply# 31   2/19/2011 at 22:07 (4,841 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)        

neptunebob's profile picture

To be truthful, many people don't even own that many jeans so a single person is not likely to have what you consider a full load. I would think most Europeans do not have as many clothes as Americans do.  Appnut, do you wear genuine Dockers or do you wear one of the off brands? 

 

Then there is the issue of the dryer being overloaded:  If the load has any polyester in it at all, the dryer could get so hot that some of the fabric gets burned onto the back of the drum.  I don't know about Westinghouse dryers back then but Frigidaire dryers are based on that dryer and they get hot as hll.  Of course, that might no be a problem with all cotton jeans, or in Europe where there is less polyester.  I don't know if they ever went through a disco phase in the 70s with John Travolta dancing in a white polyester suit. 


Post# 497809 , Reply# 32   2/19/2011 at 22:36 (4,841 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

bob, some are actual Dockers and other brands acquired from Academy, Sams, Dillards, Wallyworld.  Not from Target.  Target seems to have an aversion to anything that's wrinkle free cotton pants, at least in my small store. 


Post# 497826 , Reply# 33   2/20/2011 at 00:00 (4,841 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

I would never do that large of a load in my FL machine.   Funny, I cleaned out my closet a week ago, and had lots of jeans too. I  tossed stuff that had not been worn in some time in the wash.  Not dirty, just been there for a year or two.  I wear 34x36 jeans and I have possibly 18 of them.  I'd put maybe a max of 8 in the Duet FL at one time.  I don't believe in stressing the machine that much, wet jeans are heavy.  Why stress the machine to save a bit of water and power?


Post# 497830 , Reply# 34   2/20/2011 at 00:28 (4,841 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        

For my "daily driver"front loads,mah3000 neptune and splendide combomatic
(2002,antonio merloni mfg),i just stuff the clothes in until i am about
to the center of the drum or just above-i like the clothes to tumble and
drop with some force to get them clean,if it is overloaded and the clothes
mostly just rotate dipping in and out of the water i feel they won't be
washed as effectivly..
For work i fix motors,generators,gearboxes and other industrial machinery-
much of it from gravel pits,mines and other extremely dirty locations so
my clothes get really dirty,but always come out clean loaded about to drum
center.


Post# 497838 , Reply# 35   2/20/2011 at 02:15 (4,841 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)        

ronhic's profile picture

Ok, I've waited all day for my PC to be functioning to add to this....and I may regret it, but here goes...

Firstly, I don't for a moment believe that anyone here is intentionally wasteful. We choose to do things a particular way because it suits us, our family or our time frames.

Secondly, the question I raised a couple of weeks ago and on another post recently was about USABLE drum volume/capacity....I was trying to find out a comparison between the CU FT and KG measurments.

Myself and every other person who previously commented that owns a European style machine has been trying to say this:

- European style machines (and I include every Asian made non-American market specific ones here too) are DESIGNED and INTENDED to be filled right to the top of the wash basket......that is what constitutes a 'Full Load'

- There is a belief, generally, that American 'large capacity' machines do not have the ability to be filled in the same manner as a European machine and to wash to an appropriate standard. This would seem to be confirmed by the comments above with people saying 'I would split that load' etc....

- Consumer magazines test to a country specific standard. Normally, test loads consist of a mix of different shapes and sizes of cotton fabric to represent sheets, towels, clothing etc. When filled with these items in a particular way, the resulting weight is the 'capacity'. Some are easier to fill to this weight of dry cotton cloth than others.

 

- Good try with the jeans 3Belt, but a mixed load of differing sized items is what is needed plus scales should be on a hard surface, not on another appliance.... ;) 

- In Australia, when our Consumer Magazine test machines, they are FILLED to their stated capacity (in KG) in the manner above. The mix of items will vary depending on stated capacity, but will be the same for all machines of the same stated capacity.

- American made machines have historically been shown, in this country at least, to overstate what they will hold. 'Choice' famously published a photo of either a Whirlpool or Maytag 'filled' to the stated capacity (in KG) - the lid was up at 45 degrees with the test load billowing out!

- Matt posted a table in a previous post that 3Belt provided a few months ago. These are the weights that the US Government (I think...it could be your consumer magazine) state that a machine should wash for a given CT FT capacity:

Container volume Test load
cu. ft.¡Ý< liter¡Ý< lb kg
0-0.80 0-22.7 3.00 1.36
0.80-0.90 22.7-25.5 3.50 1.59
0.90-1.00 25.5-28.3 3.90 1.77
1.00-1.10 28.3-31.1 4.30 1.95
1.10-1.20 31.1-34.0 4.70 2.13
1.20-1.30 34.0-36.8 5.10 2.31
1.30-1.40 36.8-39.6 5.50 2.49
1.40-1.50 39.6-42.5 5.90 2.68
1.50-1.60 42.5-45.3 6.40 2.90
1.60-1.70 45.3-48.1 6.80 3.08
1.70-1.80 48.1-51.0 7.20 3.27
1.80-1.90 51.0-53.8 7.60 3.45
1.90-2.00 53.8-56.6 8.00 3.63
2.00-2.10 56.6-59.5 8.40 3.81
2.10-2.20 59.5-62.3 8.80 3.99
2.20-2.30 62.3-65.1 9.20 4.17
2.30-2.40 65.1-68.0 9.60 4.35
2.40-2.50 68.0-70.8 10.00 4.54
2.50-2.60 70.8-73.6 10.50 4.76
2.60-2.70 73.6-76.5 10.90 4.94
2.70-2.80 76.5-79.3 11.30 5.13
2.80-2.90 79.3-82.1 11.70 5.31
2.90-3.00 82.1-85.0 12.10 5.49
3.00-3.10 85.0-87.8 12.50 5.67
3.10-3.20 87.8-90.6 12.90 5.85
3.20-3.30 90.6-93.4 13.30 6.03
3.30-3.40 93.4-96.3 13.70 6.21
3.40-3.50 96.3-99.1 14.10 6.40
3.50-3.60 99.1-101.9 14.60 6.62
3.60-3.70 101.9-104.8 15.00 6.80
3.70-3.80 104.8-107.6 15.40 6.99
Notes: (1) All test load weights are bone dry weights.

Using the above scale...a 4.40 CU FT machine would have a test load of about 8.1 KG.

 

Hoover sell a machine in Europe that is 40cm (16") wide that will take an 8KG load - thats the same amount that a 4.40CU FT machine would be expected to wash in the US!

 

- My comments previously in respect to the above table have been that....my machine here is rated at 6.5KG and would be tested at that capacity by our consumer magazine and European ones. This means that, in our market (and Europe) it is expected to perform to the equivalent of a US 3.55CU FT machine even though in the US it would be rated at about 2.20 - 2.50 CU FT. 

 

- Before anyone bleats about cycle times being shorter in the US, I run my machine on the 'Quick Cotton 40c' cycle filled...just over an hour. The standard cycle is just short of 2hrs.


- The ability of a machine to actually WASH a given load has no relevance at all to dryer capacity. The majority of the world don't own them and those that do own them outside of North American, tend not to use them all the time. Plus, it wasn't the point of the question...Washer capacity and the ability to wash a 'full to the brim' load is.


Post# 497853 , Reply# 36   2/20/2011 at 06:13 (4,841 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        

And let me say this. When I bought my compact Bosch machines, I bought them new and when the nice guys at Lowe's left and I opened the plastic packet with all the waranty info stuff, etc, there was a two-page owner's manual. It didn't really tell me much except for laundry pound limits. I couldn't find anything on the web either under the Bosch site. I would get on the bathroom scales and pick up laundry until I had surpassed my weight with the laundry weight load. I figured out it did better if I didn't do all towels or all jeans, but a combination of large and small items. I had to change my thinking because I was used to traditional large capacity American machines. Also, another thing I had to get used to was how long it took for it to complete entire wash cycle. Being high efficiency, it would stop and add a little more water and sometimes stop and add a little more. It was a practice patience for me. We were having an extreme drought her in SC back in the summer 2008 when I bouht them and I liked the fact this model didn't use much water. Also, they're very small and don't take up much space. The dryer is ductless and I don't think I will ever do that again. I have to be careful to keep up the maintenance on the dryer and keep the lint traps cleaned out. The last two times Mr. appliance repairman, aka Mr. Big Hands came out he told me it was very vary important with the ductless dryer to keep all the lint cleanded out at all times. He said I didn't want my house to burn down. The other thing is it heats the kitchen up.

Post# 497854 , Reply# 37   2/20/2011 at 06:21 (4,841 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Capacity

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I think we are just trying to work out from the testing table above what is a perceivable equivalent KG capacity...

Take the ASKO models, the standard 24inch machines W60000 series capacity is:
US rating is 2.2cu ft = 4kg capacity
Euro rating = 6kg capacity

Your LG WM2501HVA machine is rated at 4.2cu ft capacity yet that table would confirm it at
US rating = 8kg capacity
Euro rating = 11kg capacity

Now here is the interesting bit, the GE Energy Star 4.0 cu ft washer is now sold in the UK..I will be road testing it from next week in the distributors training center
US capacity rating is 4.0cu = 7.63kg
Euro rating is 10kg capacity

Many 10kg FL machines are 24inches wide
The LG Euro machine rated at 11kg is 24 inches wide
What we where simply asking is why the rating conversions differ?? and that it is possible to wash 8 - 11kg loads in a Euro style 24 inch capacity machine.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO chestermikeuk's LINK


Post# 497857 , Reply# 38   2/20/2011 at 06:25 (4,841 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        

Sorry!

Post# 497865 , Reply# 39   2/20/2011 at 07:29 (4,841 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Capacity v Need or How You Actually Use It

chestermikeuk's profile picture
I think with any new appliance making its way into an existing long standing market sector there will be issues, confusion and failed expectations... - along with many people who will
"Love their New Machines"

I do think the Energy Star features and low water levels have compounded the issue along with capacity and loading...A lot of videos on the web show extra large capacity machines underloaded with people experiencing spin balance problems, so my question is I wonder if peoples requirements are being met in the department stores selling the machines...and the info available from the manufacturers etc...

A front loading cylinderical drum washing machine works best when the Tub is at filled to designed capacity, Not underloaded, The drum is able to spin with an even layer of clothing distributed around the drum...so...Mixed loads of different cloth sizes can help. If washing large absorbent items (bathrobes bath mats) 2 or 3 are better than one as the drum needs to have an even layer to spin.. This is ever so important as now most new machines rely on sophisticated electronics and sensitive OOB systems...older mechanical machines usually cope better than todays more flimsey made cheaper machines.

When I disuss requirements with customers they are very surprised when I start asking how they use their machines now...usually they just want the Biggest Capacity & Fastest Spin
My Reccomendations would be (IMHO)
Single Person average laundry, no mega items, load seperation, requirement average = 5 - 6kg
Single person, no load seperation, bung it all in loads, occasional large items = 7kg
Couples, average laundry, load seperation, whites, lights, darks = 7 kg
Couples & small family, average laundry, load seperation and the occasional large items wash (Bed throws i.e. your comforters, sleeping bags, small rugs,Duvets etc)= 8 - 9kg
Large familys / households, big seperation loads, bung it all in loads, lots of large items regularly washed = 9 - 11kg


Of course this only a good discussion start point, we do get a singles buying 11kg and fill them then switch on to wash when full, and families with three young kids with a 6kg machine as they wash every day at max capacity and that works for them!!! Its all about WHAT WORKS BEST FOR YOU!!!

The best sellers at TWMP are the 7kg 1400rpm spin machines,


Post# 497869 , Reply# 40   2/20/2011 at 07:39 (4,841 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        

Thank you for this information. You have been a big help. I will make sure it's filled to the top from now on. That will actually cut down the time it takes to get my weekly wash done. Now, I have to change my thinking.

Thanks again!


Post# 497881 , Reply# 41   2/20/2011 at 08:59 (4,841 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)        

neptunebob's profile picture

Bob/Appnut:

I have mostly Dockers and some off brands.  I notice Dockers have a better fit but the off brands have some polyester in them and keep the color better and fewer wrinkles. 

 

The reason I bring it up I am changing the subject is that if you are wearing a 40 waist your body mass index (BMI) is putting you at risk for diabetes and heart problems.  I am 5'11" and have a 36 inch waist and my BMI could be better too. 

 

So I have been hiking in the woods, climbing up a hill in our neighborhood where I sing the "Mass of the Shepherds as sung by Alpine mountaineers" and I going to start the masters swimming again.  I also started to life by brother's weights.  And I have listened to my brother-in-law  and "Dump that Quik out!".

 

So Bob, I think you need to get in the water.  I find that men with beards look nice when they are swimming.  Remember, you are swimming for your life!


Post# 497883 , Reply# 42   2/20/2011 at 09:02 (4,841 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)        

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Retromania, thank you.  Please divide load that big

 

Having an overloaded washer is kind of like having an overcrowded high school as BH has.  When the place is packed full of people, a lot are not going to learn as much as if it were less packed.  overload a washer and you are taking a chance you won't like the results.


Post# 497890 , Reply# 43   2/20/2011 at 09:30 (4,841 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        

But I thought you or someone said to fill the HE washer to the top that that is what is was designed for and would spin better. Are we talking about the same thing?

Post# 497891 , Reply# 44   2/20/2011 at 09:33 (4,841 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        

I'm so confused with all this HE talk!

Post# 497911 , Reply# 45   2/20/2011 at 10:38 (4,840 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Dont Be....

chestermikeuk's profile picture
You still have the bosch machines?? sort your laundry into cottons, synthetics, delicates..cottons and some robust synthetics I will combine!!

Sort by Whites, light colours and darks,and they usually determine temperature, hot, warm & cool...

Then pick up your load and place in into the drum, fill the drum so you can on a

cotton load, place your arm in the top over the clothes, or
synthetics, man made fabrics, no more than 3/4 of the drum
Delicates, woollens, 1/4 op half drum

Then select your programme and use correct measurment of powder, & press go!!!

Dont be afraid to experiment, my loads washes consist of three piles, whites, lights & darks, with a mix of sizes, most of the time I use cotton type programme and adjust the temperature and spin speed, (mainly 40d warm & fast spin). If you do regularly sort your laundry, you will find you have smaller loads than full capacity, not to worry, the machines uses less resources accordingly!!


Post# 497938 , Reply# 46   2/20/2011 at 11:59 (4,840 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        

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I don't wash loads that full because they dryer can't handle it. Everything comes out wrinkled as hell......Dry, but wrinkles......Smaller loads come out of the dryer fine. I guess I could just separate the load and dry it like that, but I don't. I only wash about four loads per week anyway.......Some weeks eight loads........




Post# 497963 , Reply# 47   2/20/2011 at 13:05 (4,840 days old) by appnut (TX)        
dryer loads and wrinkles

appnut's profile picture

Mark,

 

that's why the guidelines say for wrnkle-free and similar garments, as Mike points out too, only 3/4 full.  I consider all clothing that's worn on the outside to be treated as such--even jersey shorts & t-shirts.  Only undergarments, towels are loads that get the "full" treatment. 


Post# 497994 , Reply# 48   2/20/2011 at 14:48 (4,840 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)        

neptunebob's profile picture

So Bob, are you going to start swimming to reduce your BMI so you can get all new Dockers that you can get more of in the washing machine?


Post# 497997 , Reply# 49   2/20/2011 at 14:56 (4,840 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        

Where do you buy Dockers jeans?

Post# 498005 , Reply# 50   2/20/2011 at 16:40 (4,840 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)        

neptunebob's profile picture
No, Dockers are not jeans they are the casual pants made by Levi Strauss and Co.  They have the label in the back.  But there are also some "off brands" that have a label like Dockers do.  I think all of my pants have a label.  Here's a Dockers commercial when they came out in the 80s.
 


I like this commercial because I like the parkour moves he does that I wish I could do.

Macy's has the best selection of Dockers in our area, I also find them at Kohls and Sears.

Doesn't he look like Spencer on "Criminal Minds"?




This post was last edited 02/20/2011 at 17:25
Post# 498009 , Reply# 51   2/20/2011 at 16:51 (4,840 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        

Yes. I know Dockers makes khaki pants, but I thought you were talking about jeans and I had never heard of Dockers jeans. Anyway, thanks for clearing that up and neat commercial.



Post# 498016 , Reply# 52   2/20/2011 at 17:24 (4,840 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)        

neptunebob's profile picture
I know, isn't parkour neat? I try to do some moves like 2 steps at a time and run along a curb and over a rail but at my age I have to be careful and I can't do the flips he does. If I do rolls, I will sink in the mud this time of the year. So I will have to buy a pair of Dockers like he has. Regular running just seems so boring.

There are Dockers that are made of denim material but they have the internal pockets and are styled as pants and not jeans. I think they have Dockers cargo pants now too, but I have not seen them.

So do you have Dockers or do you have mostly off brands?




Post# 498027 , Reply# 53   2/20/2011 at 18:22 (4,840 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia)        
Volume vs weight

mielerod69's profile picture
Hi All,

I have been following this thread with great interest. I wanted to scan my very old 1960s Miele laundry brochure which featured both their top loaders with agitator (yes Miele did make them) as wringers as well as their front loaders but it has gone missing :(
Anyway from memory this is what the Miele philosophy between the two systems was:
The top loader with agitator needed 15 litres per kg of washing so the laundry could move around freely and be washed properly. So a toploader with a drum volume of 90 litres could handle 6kg of dry laundry.
With a front loader the principle is similar, but because of no agitator the machines weight to volume ratio changes to 10 litres per kg of washing.
I think many consumers of front loaders as well as top loaders are being taken for a ride. Yes, they can hold and wash their claimed capacity, but many manufacturers are just putting in more in the same space and extending wash times to compensate. Many wash programmes for the energy and water label are exceeding 4 hours in frontloaders! I think there is going to be a modification to the AUS standard to state a maximum wash time of no longer than 3 hours. This change in the future may see ratings on the same drum volume decrease as they may not be able to meet the cleaning requirement in a lesser time, so lowering the load size would be the only option, otherwise they would need to increase energy and water consumption.
Therefore the traditional 15 litres and 10 litres per kg of washing doesn't apply anymore.
In Australia and in Europe manufacturers are using the same drum volume and rating it at different capacities. A 50 litre drum is being rated up to 7kg and a 78 litre drum up to 11kg. All they are doing in this scenario is dropping the ratio to 7 litres per kg.
What the DOE is doing in the US is to standardise this ratio somewhat, but are not distinguishing the volume to weight ratio of the different systems.
If they did the same in Europe with drum volume it would be a similar story. I think all manufacturers of front loaders should state the rated volume in litres as well as its claimed capacity. This would give more transperancy to the consumer, like in the US.
With the new energy label in Europe, Miele has changed the Cottons programme to make it more energy efficient, but in doing so has had to increase the cycle time by 40 minutes. So now a Cottons 60 degree programme for 8kg takes 2 hours 59 minutes instead of 2 hours 19 minutes.
So you can see it is a real balancing act to get the right ratios of time, water and energy consumption to get your clothes clean.
Cheers
Rod


Post# 498055 , Reply# 54   2/20/2011 at 20:26 (4,840 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)        

neptunebob's profile picture
So Mielerod,
Do they have Dockers down under?


Post# 498063 , Reply# 55   2/20/2011 at 20:44 (4,840 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia)        
Yes, we do

mielerod69's profile picture
and also an AFL team called the Fremantle Dockers
Cheers


Post# 498073 , Reply# 56   2/20/2011 at 21:08 (4,840 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        
big splendide load

i tried a larger load in my euro-size,italian made,splendide combomatic 6100
washer is rated for 11 lb,and though i do not know the weight of the load-
3pr 32x36 jeans,about 4 t-shirts,misc undies and socks;running this larger
than usuall load did not bother the washer in the least,tumbling did not
look as effective and the drain water was not as dirty as i was expecting
for the moderatly dirty load...clothes did seem to be decently clean though
it is hard to tell exactly how clean they are VS my usuall loading habits..
BTW that larger load had the drum loaded about 3/4 full.


Post# 498090 , Reply# 57   2/20/2011 at 21:29 (4,840 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

I think when I read an LG user manual, it stated for the new Cold Clean cycle, the load size should not be more than 8 pounds.  that's about 1/2 the machine full as a rough estimate, if not slightly less. 


Post# 498210 , Reply# 58   2/21/2011 at 11:03 (4,839 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
Are NON USA KG specs higher because your clothes are smalle



Above in the thread a comment is made :


Take the ASKO models, the standard 24inch machines W60000 series capacity is:
US rating is 2.2cu ft = 4kg capacity
Euro rating = 6kg capacity

Your LG WM2501HVA machine is rated at 4.2cu ft capacity yet that table would confirm it at
US rating = 8kg capacity
Euro rating = 11kg capacity

maybe folks in out of the usa have smaller clothes and thus they mix better. Ie the average pair of bluejeans worn in Texas is larger than a pair of Blue Jeans worn in Singapore.

Thus maybe the usa spec reflects that our clothes are larger?

It is really easier to wash 16 pairs of blue jeans that weigh 9Kg than 10 pairs that weigh 9Kg. The smaller jeans "mix better" and thus are easier to clean.


Maybe that is the issue of why US and non US specs a so different; there are many folks here that are way larger. When I worked in Singapore and Bangkok; I worked along folks who were in the 70 to 120 Lb range. I was really the tallest person on the factory floor there; but only of average usa height.


Post# 498215 , Reply# 59   2/21/2011 at 11:19 (4,839 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Are NON USA KG specs higher because your clothes are smaller

chestermikeuk's profile picture
Just for the record its my data that you quote above, BUT I certainly didnt type the jeans size wording!!!...LOl

I admire you engineering break downs and think I see where you are coming from, (when I sit back and take time to study the data) but when I looked at that above post am not sure whether you are being serious
or "takin the michael"as we say here???

The question I ask still in above posts is ... Why are equivalant US machines rated a lower KG capacity than equivalent Euro models?? and am not sure thats the answer...LOl

Its all in the detail...somewhere!!!


Post# 498234 , Reply# 60   2/21/2011 at 13:13 (4,839 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)        

neptunebob's profile picture
Well what about the Dockers? Would they be the smaller sizes than in the US? Do they have them in England too? Oh wait, I don't think they have them in Scotland because they sing about having no pants!





Post# 498249 , Reply# 61   2/21/2011 at 13:52 (4,839 days old) by Pingmeep ()        

US machines have lower Department of Energy standard that only assures a minimum load capacity per cubic foot of stated space.

EU machines have a test per load to determine max load.

LG machines have an (across the board?) dry linen minimum capacity of 10kg.

That's what I took from this thread and research into the difference between loading.


Post# 498268 , Reply# 62   2/21/2011 at 15:13 (4,839 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
Random Comments from the view point of Joe and Jane in Anywh



(1) KG is NEVER USED HERE with washers; but BASKETS is more common; If one polled folks of all walks of life in the USA, steet homeless to Phd; about none has ever heard of Kg's used for washer capacity.

Probably a greater percentage of folks in the UK, OZ or SA rate washers with Firkens as volume; or stones as mass.

Marketing washers with Kg is non existant in the USA.

Gobs of folks sort dirty clothes into baskets by type and color and wash when the basket is full and or then are out of clothes.





(2) DRYERS as far as dryers; the vast majority of folks who have a washer in the USA have a dryer too. In more rural areas some folks use cloths lines; some it cites do too. One cannot here in many big cities hang laundry to dry on the open porch of a giant apartment building liker folks do in some overseas cities; ie one gets evicted. Ie my apartment I lived in California had rules against this thing that one agreed to in the rental agreement. Many of us who own dryers here WILL on a weekend use a clothes line on a sunny day for big items to dry at our houses. Here this is mostly with blankets, bluejeans, rugs, big heavy stuff.

(3) NON USA folks are maybe smaller?? ; thus your items mix better??. The 16 Pairs of jeans I washed were mostly 32 to 34 waist and about 36 in length; probably average to small here in width a bit longer in length. One has gobs of folks in the USA that are obese; it think double ie 300Lbs. Thus in an oddball sense those 16 pairs of jeans might be like only 8 Giant persons; or 24 + pairs in Singapore.

Without getting into a tangent as to WHY; many folks items here are way bigger than my own stuff. There are folks whose whole DNA and stuff is all large here . ie the Potato Family drives a giant trucks ; their clothes are triple X T shirts; they are "overweight" by more than a typical Asian weighs; all their things and kids are husky sized. This has to have some bearing; ie their stuff is all giant sized; washer, dryer, clothes, trucks, refrigerator. ie one has a family of mom and dad and 2 kids and their mass is over 1000 Lbs. ie one is at the grocery store and the aisles are so tight that 2 carts/trolleys barely can pass!. ie one cannot pass Mr or Miss Potato Family in the aisle since each person is wider than the trolley.


(4) RE "American made machines have historically been shown, in this country at least, to overstate what they will hold. "

Here I only heard this after seeing this website. When I was in Japan, Singapore, Germany and New Zealand the washers I used there were smaller and held less stuff. Thus my take is this is really wild marketing claims to sell washers there and not real science. I have really never seen TV, or printed Advertising here in the USA that compares washers or mowers to non usa ones.


One of the Miele non us sites claims their machine washes 50 percent more than an American machine. The actual few 24" machines sold in the USA are smaller in size and wash less clothes, that is why the market is basically zero. Even if a Miele 24" FL machine here with pure magic can wash as much stuff as a normal 27" machine; the average person is not going to believe it based on a non usa machine; or non usa test.

On the Flip side non usa folks live and breath 24" washers; thus they can improve this form factor to the nth degree.

Joe and Jane Public here have never seen a 24" machine before. Thus this argument has no end. The average user of a washer in the USA uses a dumb basket of dirty stuff to wash as a measure and thus wants a machine to physically hold the same as the old washer.

A machine with a physically smaller drum has already a mark against it in the USA. ie folks were NOT taught to to cram stuff in a washer to be full. thus if the smaller machine really holds as much as a 27" one one has a vast education to do. Thus to sell a magical 24" machine that washes as much as a 27" machine; the average Joe wants to see solid proof. It really is a tall order; non usa folks constantly mention Kg's. Nobody here normally weighs clothes; they use a darn basket as a metric. Thus somebody here can be Joe Metric and the Kg ratings are meaningless.

(5) PRICE and Availability ; most USA folks buy locally..Many folks here just want to wash clothes and price matters. I bought the LG on sale last fall for 599 bucks. It was just an average washer here. The floor models were 3.2 to 5.2 and I got a 4.2 IEC one. It can wash 11Kg worth of stuff and is just a normal washer size. The non sale models were only 4.0 and had less featuresreleddoielsThe smaller models available locally cost less; but have less features. Ie the 249 dollar but IEC top loader was a 3.2 IEC size; But I did not want a starter basic top loader that uses a lot more water. The Front load 3.2 IEC small model on sale for 349 dollars had bad reviews.

Here I am not sure what the real answer is. There are so many variables. Even if has no meaning to others; here I still "like" to know what the actual displacement is of my lawnmower or washer.




Post# 498276 , Reply# 63   2/21/2011 at 15:36 (4,839 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)        

neptunebob's profile picture
See! I knew the Body Mass Index had a lot to do with it!

Post# 498284 , Reply# 64   2/21/2011 at 16:29 (4,839 days old) by pingmeep ()        

(1) Nice dodge on LG and their across the board greater than 10kg guarantee.

What do we care about john or jane q public thinks about metric measures? If a machine is engineered to greater than 10kg it dosen't matter if you use metric or standard it is what it has been engineered to.

We have americans on this very board with US brand machines that cannot wash even less than you jean load with the same or bigger machines. Thankfully we also have some US users with machines that can.



Post# 498373 , Reply# 65   2/21/2011 at 19:21 (4,839 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)        

neptunebob's profile picture
So 3Belt do you have Dockers? I would think New Orleans would be a good place to film a Dockers commercial, with the men walking down Bourbon Street.

Post# 498413 , Reply# 66   2/21/2011 at 20:51 (4,839 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

I gotta ask a "stupid" question here.  Does volume and density of a garment/fabric have an impact on how much one can get into a machine?  Seems to me, I can get less of my thickest towels in as a load in my Fridgemore than I can with bath towels which ar not nearly as fluffy/bulky.  The thicker garments take up more amount in the machine.  Just like thick sweatshirts and swetpans, I cannot get as many in as I can say, poly/cotton no-iron long sleeve shirts or dress pants. 


Post# 498424 , Reply# 67   2/21/2011 at 21:38 (4,839 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Yes It Does

launderess's profile picture
Eleven pounds of "thick and thirsty" bath towels and wash cloths are going to be much less in number than an equal weight of items made from thinner material.

The thicker and or denser a textile, in general the more water it will absorb, this in turn increases the weight.

Though many washing machine owner's manuals from past and present would give the "average" weight of items needed to make up a load, it has long been known how full the tub is gives a better indicator.

Many a poor front loader has dashed itself to bits trying to spin wash loads that are simply too heavy. Far to many consumers do not use common sense, and all there hear is "you can load the machine until it's full.....".

Or, people figure that one little ole quilt cannot weigh that much, and load the thing either by itself (not a good idea), or add several heavy towels. Quilts and other vintage linens become *very* heavy when wet, and once the machine starts to spin often you hear a loud *CRASH*. That lovely sound is caused by the drum attempting to spin whilst out of alingment caused by heavy weight on one side of the tub. This can damage shocks, concrete or other counter-weights, bearings, drive belts and lots of other things.


Post# 498479 , Reply# 68   2/22/2011 at 08:32 (4,839 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        

(Neptunebob) No Dockers here.

(Appnut) RE "I gotta ask a "stupid" question here. Does volume and density of a garment/fabric have an impact on how much one can get into a machine? "

I think this has a lot to do with it. What type of clothes folks wear around the world varies.


(Pingpeep) RE "What do we care about john or jane q public thinks about metric measures? If a machine is engineered to greater than 10kg it dosen't matter if you use metric or standard it is what it has been engineered to. "

Here when I bought the LG WM2501HVA last fall I never saw any weight references of what it will hold; Ie what non usa folks seem to worship, live and breath as holy. Such a reference is non existent when one researches a purchase. That is why I purposely ran a test with weight as a variable; ie loads of 24, 16 and 2 Lbs; the variable non usa folks dwell on as important.

If one does an exhaustive local look at locally sold washers and does web exhasutive web research; about non have any reference to the variable non usa folks worship as holy; ie weight. Thus about all of those 100 Maytag, Whirlpool,GE, Samsung, LG, Amana, Fridgiare, Electrolux, Sears etc washers have no specs on the non usa spec of weight.

One can reverse the comment and state too why would a USA washer customer care about Kg's too; a spec that is not mentioned in the 100 washers Joe and Jane just looked at.

If a non USA person who worships washer Kg specs is transfered to Kansas City Mo; he too can do the exhaustive research of 100 local washers and may never find thee holy spec of Kg that he/she wants.


Post# 498555 , Reply# 69   2/22/2011 at 14:14 (4,838 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)        

neptunebob's profile picture
Well maybe you ought to go to Macys and get some, they make me look sharp! And you can make a commercial on Bourbon Street and jump on the streetcar named desire wearing Dockers.

Post# 498561 , Reply# 70   2/22/2011 at 14:52 (4,838 days old) by Pingmeep ()        

Come on 3belwesty even LG's site for their washers lists kg under the specifications tab for any of the newest washers. Some of those are 12 months or older since release. It is also included on the downloadable spec sheet pdf (page 2).

 

 

So LG took a global initiative and brought it to the US.

Sorry that you missed it.

 

Here's a link to one on their US site.

Anything after Jan 2010 has a minimum 10KG spec most are >10.1kg.

 

BTW: I've seen >10KG dry linen capacity on LG sell sheets and product boxes when I was in NY state too. So it's not just on the web but in dealers too.

 

While John and Jane Q public may adore IEC equivalent cubic feet (not bloody likely) we both know that commercial laundry equipment more often than not lists LB or KG or both.

 

Is there any other commercial laundry maker that is more American than Dexter?


Post# 498562 , Reply# 71   2/22/2011 at 14:53 (4,838 days old) by coldspot ()        

/wow my state must be odd ball. Sears lowes and all other stores have 24" machines on floor to look at. I order my washer and most other items online and never went to look at them. But my washer 24". I load it to the top drum full as can be. Not overloaded at all.


I do my wash when needed if the machine is not full I wait it out. Saves time to do ! full load and be done with it.

new ge was online for 634.00 in home depot it was 749.00. My frig 10cu ft online 499.00 in store at sears lg 699.00 It is the tall slim unit Width: 23 1/2". Height: 67 5/8" It holds more then a 18cu ft frig I replaced. I never went to look at it also. I read about and order it.

Only thing I never seen in any shop here is a portable dishwasher. So order mine online and would order aging.



Post# 498564 , Reply# 72   2/22/2011 at 14:59 (4,838 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
UK Machines

mrb627's profile picture

Maybe the UK machines are rated at higher capacity because they are 220v machines compared to our 110v here in the States.

 

Malcolm


Post# 498567 , Reply# 73   2/22/2011 at 15:28 (4,838 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)        

neptunebob's profile picture
Actually, Malcolm I think the larger Body Mass Index of Americans may explain why we cannot fit in as many clothes. By the way, do you have Dockers too? I want to see you in them!

Post# 498574 , Reply# 74   2/22/2011 at 16:18 (4,838 days old) by paulc (Edinburgh, Scotland)        
I think....

paulc's profile picture
it comes down to wash times. In the EU we are used to longer wash times. People in the US are used to short wash times in a T/L. US F/L machines have to show they can wash quick and well otherwise they won't sell. We in the EU can cram our machines full as we know in 2 hours our wash will be clean. In the US if you cram a F/L machine full you will not get the same results in 50mins.

Post# 498575 , Reply# 75   2/22/2011 at 16:23 (4,838 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)        

neptunebob's profile picture
So Paul, do they have Dockers in Scotland and how many fit in your washer? Do you look sharp in them?

Post# 498591 , Reply# 76   2/22/2011 at 17:42 (4,838 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
Re KG specs to a USA buyer


(PING) RE "Come on 3belwesty even LG's site for their washers lists kg under the specifications tab for any of the newest washers. Some of those are 12 months or older since release. It is also included on the downloadable spec sheet pdf (page 2)."

For the LG washers that were available locally last fall like my WM2501HVA HVW; Lg lists no specs in Kgs of clothes washed.

Locally I was comparing what I could buy here; NOT Canada or Brazil via mailorder.

Ie the local WM2501HWA, LG WM2350HRC, LG WM2140CW, were on the show floors


LG WM2140CW 4.0 IEC lists a Dry Linen Capacity >10.1 kg
LG WM2350HRC 4.2 IEC Lists a Dry Linen Capacity >10.1 kg TODAY
LG WM2501HWA 4.2 IEC Lists no "Dry Linen Capacity"

The PDF's I downloaded from LG before Last Thanksgivings sales had no reference to "Dry Linen Capacity" ; except on the WM2140CW which was not one sale.

Thus I had the "Dry Linen Capacity >10.1 kg" only on the machine I really was not going to purchase.


Thus the two on sale LG's the LG WM2350HRC LG WM2501HWA / HVA I was really considering had no Kg value via the web or brochures locally.




I actually called up Maytag; GE, LG, Whirlpool etc folks to *ASK* how many Lbs (or Kg) of clothes before last thanksgivings purchase. One might as well as what the capacity is in Blackberrys.


Thus here I did not have an magical way to find out this info that is revised today on the LG WM2350HRC and and still not published yet on the WM2501HWA that I bought and own.


Thus in Nov 2010 one could say the target 4.2 IEC LG WM2501HWA / HVA is sort like a smaller IEC 4.0 LG WM2140CW 4.0 IEC listed a Dry Linen Capacity >10.1 kg


Is this sort of info so hard to provide?.


The not having a reference has one guessing. The "great than" is a weasel bunch of spineless bunk too. is it 11; or 12; or 13; or 15 Kg.?

It is bad enough to have zero info on one's target washer. Then one is suppose to compare this to another that has a smaller IEC; then see the weasel greater than sign?

What if the buyer was not an American and they live in the USA and find these numbers half missing and with "greater than" weasel words?


Post# 498593 , Reply# 77   2/22/2011 at 18:02 (4,838 days old) by pingmeep ()        

It's better than 29 bath towels (specially designed and of various thicknesses) which the Maytag Maxima will use to describe it's capacity when it launches this summer. A journalist from the EU produced a luggage scale and a bag to put the towels in but the maytag/whirlpool. hired pr people said the towels were unavailable. No weaseling around there.

Also you can bet that LG did that so no one or the states could sue. "So we tested our machines at a weight over min US standards. What's the big deal."

Well 3belt at least you know your machine can handle it.

One day the US market will settle on weight as part of capacity. The wheels just turn slowly.


Post# 498601 , Reply# 78   2/22/2011 at 18:41 (4,838 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        



If I was from Europe and my washer DNA was all in Kg; then I would be even more confused If I was living in the USA buying a buying a USA washer.

I think you hit the bullseye with the lawsuit comment.

The USA is a hell hole for torts and lawsuits; thus specs with weasel words are used!


Post# 498603 , Reply# 79   2/22/2011 at 18:46 (4,838 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
LAWSUITS



If USA washers here moved back to weight specs like what was more common decades ago; some bozo would sue!.

Thus all thus ruckus might have turned up a reason why specs are different. ie tort hell where a maker gets sued.


Post# 498605 , Reply# 80   2/22/2011 at 18:52 (4,838 days old) by mrx ()        

This debate really gets tiresome after a while.

European machine are smaller for one simple reason; Europeans adopted modular kitchens in the 1950s. So, all appliances to be installed in a kitchen or utility room have to be 850mm high, and 595 - 600mm wide to fit into those slots. Or, where appliances like fridges or ovens/hobs (cooktops) are wider, they retain that modular sizing i.e. they'll be 1 unit or 1.5 or 2 units wide. E.g. for a side-by-side fridge European style, we sometimes put in a fridge that's 600mm wide and a freezer that's also the same size next to it.

Our clothes aren't smaller, (although we are a little less obese).

US laundry machines are usually installed free standing in a basement or utility room and do not have to slot-in. So, they don't really seem to care too much what their exact dimensions are as long as they're reasonably similar to the old top loaders.

Loading factors are probably more to do with the fact that North Americans are used to agitator machines. You cannot stuff those full or they don't wash where as horizontal axis drum machines are quite capable of washing with the drum stuffed to capacity as the action is more about pushing water and detergent through the clothes by tumbling than about splashing them around.

I use an 8kg Bosch Logixx machine and it will happily hold about 15 towels without any fuss or a large basket/hamper of dirty laundry.

We stuff it to capacity pretty regularly and it does a great job.

Our dryer's a matching 8kg Bosch and it also handles the clothes without any fuss. Although, you might not want to stuff it too full if you're drying delicates or at least you need to take them out as soon as the buzzer rings to avoid wrinkling.

I just find this repetitive debate about Euro vs US washers gets a bit silly though.
We've different designs of utility rooms and kitchens and a very slightly different evolution of laundry technology.

Having lived in several parts of Europe and several parts of the US, there really isn't a lot of difference in terms of clothes or lifestyle.

The washers are just a tiny bit different, although less and less so as European machines are bigger capacity than they used to be and US machines are now more and more FL.

So, perhaps we're harmonising with the best of both worlds?



Post# 498708 , Reply# 81   2/23/2011 at 08:43 (4,838 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
Our clothes aren't smaller, (although we are a little le



RE "Our clothes aren't smaller, (although we are a little less obese)."

Maybe this is another discovery too! :)

Here in the USA folks that are larger/bigger/fatter *tend* to buy larger clothes.


If the average European is less obese; do they just still were bigger clothes; ie baggie style?


Post# 498778 , Reply# 82   2/23/2011 at 14:46 (4,837 days old) by franksdad (Greenville, South Carolina)        

franksdad's profile picture
Why are ya'll obsessed with Dockers? I have some but I prefer my khakis from Eddie Bauer and Columbia. I love Eddie Bauer. I buy 99% of my pants from The GoodWill Store. No need to pay $45.00 for a pair of Columbia pants when you can get them at GoodWill for $4.25.

And, for the record, I wash about four or five pairs of jeans or khakis per load. I divide my laundry by type of clothing, then by whites, light colored, "gray matter" and dark coloreds. I wear a lot of charcoal gray polo shirts and t-shirts and cotton shorts. I think the charcoal color looks nice with my salt and pepper hair and beard. I also love blues from sky to robin to lapis and navy. I wash my sheets separately and put ONE queen fitted, one queen flat, and four pillowcases per load. Y fronts and unmentionables constitute a small load and the towels are washed separately with about three loads per week.


Post# 498779 , Reply# 83   2/23/2011 at 14:49 (4,837 days old) by franksdad (Greenville, South Carolina)        
And jeans

franksdad's profile picture
I've bought every pair but one pair of my Levi's from GoodWill for the last six or seven years. I wear Levi's 550. They fit me the best. Can't wear Lee jeans or Wrangles jeans. They don't come up far enough over my fat @$$. I can "do' Arizona jeans in a pinch - if I find some at GoodWill.

Post# 498782 , Reply# 84   2/23/2011 at 15:00 (4,837 days old) by dj-gabriele ()        
I wash my sheets separately and put ONE queen fitted, one qu


Do you own Barbie's washing machine?

I can fit twice of that in my washer and it's only 5 kg (or 1,5 cubic feet)


Post# 498783 , Reply# 85   2/23/2011 at 15:01 (4,837 days old) by paulc (Edinburgh, Scotland)        
Neptunebob

paulc's profile picture
No, I don't own any dockers. I usually wash six pair of jeans at a time, I could fit more in but they tend to crease badly.

Post# 498794 , Reply# 86   2/23/2011 at 15:49 (4,837 days old) by franksdad (Greenville, South Carolina)        
Do you own Barbie's washing machine?

franksdad's profile picture
No, I'm just anal. aka anal retentive, that is. :o)

BTW I have a 2008 BOSCH Nexxt Premium washer and dryer in platinum. Jim


Post# 498797 , Reply# 87   2/23/2011 at 15:54 (4,837 days old) by franksdad (Greenville, South Carolina)        
BTW I have a 2008 BOSCH Nexxt Premium washer and dryer in pl

franksdad's profile picture
Correction. 2007 BOSCH washer and dryer. I went to get a BOSCH dishwasher in 2007 because I was so impressed with the washer and dryer. I ended up with a Whirlpool Gold. This was right after my brother's death. My brother passed away from prostrate cancer in September 2007. I remember a lot of things as BC or AC... before Charlie's death or after Charlie's death. Jim

Post# 498798 , Reply# 88   2/23/2011 at 15:56 (4,837 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        
It really does depend on many factors

sudsmaster's profile picture

Even the owner's manual for the Miele 1930 washer clearly states that the maximum recommended load will vary with fabric type and soil load.

 

If you are washing perm press stuff, you do not want to fill the washer to max. Otherwise you'll get more wrinkling, which sort of defeats the whole perm press concept.

 

Heavily soiled laundry should also be washed at less than max load. It only makes sense. A smaller load will get more wash action and not overload the detergent component as readily.

 

It also depends on how well the washer handles heavy loads on spin.

 

Take my Neptune 7500, for example. When I wash large bulky items like a fiberfill comforter, I can stuff it in there and not have a wash performance or spin problem. But when I wash bath sheets (really big bath towels, I find that the optimum number is five. The washer will handle six or seven, but then it takes forever to balance the load to spin, and usually when it's over five towels I have to halt the spin rebalance process, open the washer, and do some untangling of the towels. Then it will usually spin to max extract OK. But I'd rather not have to deal with that for every load.

 

Smaller items also can be packed to max load, because they don't tangle as much and cause balance problems.

 

The Miele 1930 doesn't seem to have the balance problems that the Neptune can experience, probably because it's not a tilted tub design that tangles some items. I wash small white items (gym socks, underwwear, kitchen towels, etc) exclusively in the Miele, in part because they are generally smaller loads and also because it can boost the temp up to 170F, while the Neptune is limited to 130F. The Miele does an excellent job with these loads, and the 1600 rpm spin speed makes short work of later drying.

 

Anyway, I don't think there are hard and fast rules about what is the optimum load. It varies with the types of items being washed, and with the washer. Also, most all modern front loaders have adaptive water fill, so water/energy waste from washing a smaller load in a bigger washer is somewhat minimized.


Post# 498807 , Reply# 89   2/23/2011 at 16:40 (4,837 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        

RE "Heavily soiled laundry should also be washed at less than max load. It only makes sense. A smaller load will get more wash action and not overload the detergent component as readily."

Here I have heard this in the USA since the 1950's, and this philosophy is what we used with our 1947, 1976 Front Load westinghouses.



Several folks in Europe have mentioned on this board that a FL washer needs to be full to wash well; conflicting with my past 50 years of American FL washer usage.

Thus that is why I wonder what the "has to be full" saga is based on in other countries.

With different machines and different water schemes of non usa washers; maybe their machines act differently.


Post# 498821 , Reply# 90   2/23/2011 at 17:11 (4,837 days old) by solsburian (SE Northumberland)        
Pic from my Hoover manual...

It can take up to a 6KG load.

Post# 498831 , Reply# 91   2/23/2011 at 17:52 (4,837 days old) by favorit ()        

"Several folks in Europe have mentioned on this board that a FL washer needs to be full to wash well; conflicting with my past 50 years of American FL washer usage.

Thus that is why I wonder what the "has to be full" saga is based on in other countries."

It is based on our experience with those vintage frontloaders filled up to half glass door even on the main wash. I have a vintage Zerowatt in garage that acts like that. Is the best machine to wash wetsuits or towelling BUT it does not clean properly an half load of very soiled table clothes /kitchen towels. Half loads don't tumble cause there's too much water. They just float and roll over as if they were on a delicate cycle.

Another clue : my mother's Candy SA5 had an half load button (lower water lever) BUT as the motor had a lower load to tumble the drum rotated too fast and it made distributions rather than tumbles. So without actual tumble action there was no stain removal

Chek Norfolk Southern's Zerowatt : not a case it has a true european full load :-)



Post# 498832 , Reply# 92   2/23/2011 at 17:53 (4,837 days old) by favorit ()        
link

to the aforementioned Zerowatt

CLICK HERE TO GO TO favorit's LINK


Post# 498965 , Reply# 93   2/24/2011 at 08:04 (4,837 days old) by Haxisfan (Europe - UK / Italy)        
@ Favorit... ineffective half loads...

haxisfan's profile picture
It wasn't always the case with all models... perhaps with the pre-Candy ones due to their 'higher than average' set tumble speed. My parents 1988 Zerowatt (already Candy in 1985) could wash half loads brialliantly with guaranteed tumble action. The phenomenon you described above would probably occur with a very small load but not with half loads. Perhaps even after entering the Candy group Zerowatt adopted some of its own components... e.g. the drum in the washer I mentioned above is exactly the same as the one in the Zerowatt (Excellence) of your link.

Being aware that lots of people (especially Italians) keep paraising the old Zerowatt appliances for their sturdy construction and the durability of their components but I have good reasons to believe just the opposite: I witnessed a massive improvement in Zerowatt appliances only after they had been absorbed by Candy: I refer to my lifelong experience with this brand since early 70's. I wasn't around then yet, but my grand parents had a Zerowatt FL produced in this era which gave the occasional electrical glitch... though it couldn't be blamed as much as it was kept in a very damp place, however, after 4 or 5 years it had to have a new timer control mechanism. My parents had a 1976 Zerowatt (cosmetically similar to my grand parents' one but with a slightly faster spin speed) and it had a repair for something or another every couple of years... with the most recurrent failure being the bearings. It gave up the ghost after 12 years with a burn out motor and a collapsed drum spider (it's still kept in a garage... as an antique object d'art). My aunt had the exact same washer which she bought a year later... she never complained for its cleaning abilities and she managed somehow to make it last 20 odd years only thanks to countless sets of bearings and 3 whole outer tubs!

My parents bought another Zerowatt after that in 1988 (the one aforementioned) which has been fairly reliable throughout the years and it's still as ready as ever to takle the toughest and fullest load of laundry you can imagine: it's had a number of drain pumps during the course of its life, a few door seals and a new set of drum bearings (when it was about 12 years of age), yet I wouldn't feel like judging such repair record mercilessly considering the fact that 'it' (or should I say 'she') punctually carried out a boilwash once or twice a week (as well as other easier wash loads with the least impact on its components).

Only a few months ago, she (the Zerowatt) finally obtained a part-time job... having pleaded with my parents for letting me have it in exchange for my modern Indesit washer-dryer which b.t.w. broke down during this period requiring a new PCB. I said 'part-time' as I will be using the Zerowatt only when I got to see my parents a couple of weeks twice a year.

I included a 10 minute clip below of a 3/4 wash load in this oldish Zerowatt (1988) where the half load function had been selected... I will test it with less clothes somewhen in future. The first 5 minutes of the clip shows a load of clothes washed in the Indesit washer dryer (now my parent's) as I wanted to test both washers for their ability to clean a load of laundry using cold water enabled washing detergents.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Haxisfan's LINK


Post# 498971 , Reply# 94   2/24/2011 at 08:28 (4,837 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
my USA old reasons for old FL washers are similar to the UK

Here with some items that are real super dirty; I have always tended to have the machine say 1/3 to 2/3 rds full, never chock full.

The reasons here are that one has a safety factor, one was too getting a better chance of cleaning; than a full load that is crammed real full .

*****ie I never really heard of:

"BUT it does not clean properly an half load of very soiled table clothes /kitchen towels. Half loads don't tumble cause there's too much water. "

****** until I came to this washing machine website.

Most of my experience is with FL washing is my older 1976 3 belt westy; which has an oval potato pulley that varies the wash speed between 52 to 62rpm. The only real effect of varying the load is the average rpm drops slightly with more load; the motor is just a dumb 1800 rpm AC induction motor. This rpm is such with its 22" diameter that items drop back into the wash water; they do not stay at the other radius

Here with say a weekends worth of dirty pants and tshirts to work on the car, roof or truck I typically wash these as one wash load; even if the machine is 1/3 full.

I do not "wait" and save up like greasy dirty items and then wash them 2 months or 3 months later "when the machine is full". There are several reason why. Stains set with time . I also would not want to add church white shirts in the same load as some greasy bluejeans and "hope" that it worked; I was not raised to roll the dice.

Thus often here in the USA some folks purposely do not do the "lets fill the washer to its max gambit" .


we often do not want stains to set, we often do not want to mix 30 dollar new white shirts with 50 cent thrift store bluejeans full of axle grease, we often do not want colors to bleed on white items.

The added "waste" of washing a 1/2 load cannot even be measured in our budgets, our machines often do what well at 1/2 loads too.


Post# 498972 , Reply# 95   2/24/2011 at 08:32 (4,837 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
This is what our 1947 and 1976 westinghouse FL manuals prea



This UK comment is what my family found out with USA FL westys

Since folks here differ on opinions, the washers design must be a factor; or ones stance too.



Post# 499011 , Reply# 96   2/24/2011 at 10:10 (4,836 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
The Westy

chestermikeuk's profile picture
doesnt have variable speed control does it?? just the potato pully, so if you wash cottons, does it fill to low level??

and if you wash synthetics / man made/ /delicates then the water level is higher??

so if the water level is high there is less chance of them being lifted out of the water with a small load!!

The older UK / & Euro machines just had two water levels, so unless you used the HALF LOAD button on a small cotton load, you would get a less vigerous, more delicate wash

The beauty of todays UK machines is that they take the ammount of water required for the load inside & the programme selected, so its save save every load (providing you have filled the drum to optimum load setting for fabric being washed & you have selected the correct wash programme)

I used a potato pulley westy at the last convention, great machine, our English Electric is its decendant!!


Post# 499053 , Reply# 97   2/24/2011 at 15:05 (4,836 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
Thw Westys added a variable control on the last models

Westinghouse somewhere about 1988? dropped the 3 belt system and used a DC torquer motor controlled by an electronic speed control.

This system basically dropped the complex, many little parts, mechanical transmission and used one belt and a motor that could be controlled/programmed.

The tub was the similar (different sump for new pump) ; the spin basket was the same size but the shaft not was not replaceable, ie the drum can rotate either way. This was used from about say 1988? to about 1992/3 ? ish. ie until America "rediscovered" the FL washer!

Both the roughly 3 belt 1962 to 1988 and Torquer 1988 to 1993 models look similar; and use the same door boot; same door. Unless one looked at the "controls" one cannot really the difference.

The pump is different on the older variant; it is driven off the drive motor.

The 3 belt model I have here from 1976 has a fully manual water level control. One just sets it where you want to for the clothes being washed. The door is spring loaded and has a scale. One can weight the clothes as an aid for the water level setting. ie "weigh to save" .



My old 1976 westy really as two cycles; I need to posty an image to show the dials settings
On the non potato belt newer westy; the motor and control ; I think was originally German. Here is what the motor looks like in the link:


CLICK HERE TO GO TO 3beltwesty's LINK on eBay


Post# 499181 , Reply# 98   2/25/2011 at 08:41 (4,836 days old) by franksdad (Greenville, South Carolina)        
Dockers

franksdad's profile picture
I'm a natural fiber guy. I don't "do" polyester.

Post# 499282 , Reply# 99   2/25/2011 at 17:13 (4,835 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)        
Now confess..

...franksday. You know you're still wearing those polyester leisure suits from the 70's!


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