Thread Number: 79040
/ Tag: Modern Dishwashers
New Dishwasher Shopping |
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Post# 1029870   4/14/2019 at 18:25 (1,810 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)   |   | |
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Right now I'm shopping for a new dishwasher. I've got my choices down to a Maytag MDB4949 and a Whirlpool WDT750. If you have any suggestions throw them in there too. I'm intrigued by the new tech of the total coverage spray arm and just as intrigued to go back to a chopper system as I am also a fan of old school tech as I have a 2017 speed queen TL washer.
My last DW was a Kitchenaid kdte104ess1. It had the x style lower spray arm and did a great job while it worked. However it only lasted 3 years. Not sure if it was up to the task of washing a full load every single day. which one do you like best? What are some positives and negatives of both? My preference is for a workhorse that cleans well. I scrape and run each plate under the faucet. I don’t really care about wash times as I start my load at the end of the night. Thanks for your input. |
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Post# 1029871 , Reply# 1   4/14/2019 at 18:44 (1,810 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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scraping and rinsing each plate under the faucet may be your downfall for any new machine you get...
today detergents work on food particles, if there is not sufficient food to work on, then the chemical will go after the machine....wearing out racks and parts way too soon.... sounds odd, but this is whats happening.... some machines also use an Auto-Wash sensor type of system...if no food particles are noted, it may think the machine is empty and jump into one or two rinses and shut down.... even your dishwasher is now catching up from the SMART phone age! |
Post# 1029880 , Reply# 3   4/14/2019 at 19:34 (1,810 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 1029896 , Reply# 5   4/14/2019 at 21:46 (1,810 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Hi Nerdvana, sorry you had a bad experience with this DW, but it sounds like you don't do too well with other DWs either.
We are a dealer and have sold over 400 MT DWs of this design and have had NO cleaning complaints and very few problems, here and there some users don't like the rack design, but all DW manufactures have complaints about rack design, this is an area where it is very hard to please everyone.
You are wrong about all WP built DWs having a 1/6 HP motor, WP DWs used to have a 1/5 or 1/6 HP motor in the point Voyager models but they have been gone for over 6 years. The TOL Kitchenaid DWs with the grinder system also have a 1/6 HP motor, but no WP has had anything close to this in over 6 years.
MT and TOL KA DWs have by far the largest and most powerful motors of any home DW in the world currently.
John |
Post# 1029907 , Reply# 7   4/15/2019 at 00:07 (1,810 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
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Post# 1029909 , Reply# 8   4/15/2019 at 00:46 (1,810 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)   |   | |
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I’m leaning toward the Maytag. I wish they wouldn’t have changed the dispenser or the front panel on the most recent model, though. I liked the digital timer and physical buttons. I also started having issues with that same dispenser on my Kitchenaid. Are the internals (main board, motor, etc.) the same as the older 4949 design? I think I could benefit from the tiered upper rack to fit sports water bottles. I appreciate all the input I’ve received so far.
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Post# 1029916 , Reply# 11   4/15/2019 at 03:55 (1,810 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 1029920 , Reply# 12   4/15/2019 at 07:19 (1,810 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)   |   | |
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Post# 1029923 , Reply# 13   4/15/2019 at 07:54 (1,810 days old) by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Here are some pictures of the rating plates of three different motors used on whirlpool dishwashers in the last couple of years there’s probably at least five or six total different motors but here are three popular ones.
You can see how much larger the motor is out of the Maytag it’s 202 W versus 55 W and 37 W for the other two it’s considerably larger and heavier it’s also continuous duty you’ll notice the other motors can only run for 20-22 minutes and then they have to rest for 10 minutes, LOL The Maytag is the only one that has a horsepower rating it’s rated at .18 which is somewhere between one 1/5 and1/6 hp. The major problem with having such low horsepower motors in the dishwasher is that the water force is not strong enough to dislodge food particles between dishes if two things are touching, commercial dishwashers will never be built such a ridiculous manner. John |
Post# 1029934 , Reply# 15   4/15/2019 at 11:25 (1,809 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 1029948 , Reply# 16   4/15/2019 at 13:43 (1,809 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)   |   | |
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I don’t understand the whole 20min on, 10min off thing.
My KA with the 37watt motor will run for the whole 45 min wash and 45min rinse segments nonstop. I know facts are inconvenient but that little 37 watt motor will often flip plastic containers in my KA. The Johnson motors in GE machines are whiny little brushed DC motors that make nice little pile of carbon under the machine after a year or two. They’re prone to leaking too, since they’re not sealed wet rotor motors like on the WP machines. |
Post# 1029955 , Reply# 17   4/15/2019 at 15:16 (1,809 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)   |   | |
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Made in China, Made in China...
What ever happened to this ???
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Post# 1029984 , Reply# 19   4/15/2019 at 19:29 (1,809 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)   |   | |
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Do chopper systems need to be opened up every 6 mos or so to clean out or are they maintenance free? I really don't want 3 month old food stuck below where I can't see, water running through it, and recirculating on my clean dishes. One thing I did like about my filer system was, any food that was left behind was visible above the filter. Anything that got through the filter simply got flushed out.
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Post# 1029987 , Reply# 20   4/15/2019 at 20:07 (1,809 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine)   |   | |
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There is no way I would ever buy any appliance thats not dial operated and NO electronics. My 25 years old stuff still works just fine turning a dial. I dont want a china and crystal setting or pots and pans. I just want a few days worth of dishes to get clean on regular wash. I do rinse dishes before loading, old habit.
This post was last edited 04/15/2019 at 20:29 |
Post# 1030033 , Reply# 22   4/16/2019 at 08:01 (1,809 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)   |   | |
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Post# 1030068 , Reply# 24   4/16/2019 at 14:44 (1,808 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)   |   | |
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Link to models CLICK HERE TO GO TO jerrod6's LINK |
Post# 1030076 , Reply# 26   4/16/2019 at 16:49 (1,808 days old) by whatsername (Denver, CO)   |   | |
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Post# 1030080 , Reply# 27   4/16/2019 at 17:11 (1,808 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)   |   | |
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I've always tried to stay true to Whilrlpool and their companies. I'm from Stevensville, Michigan and they built our area. Half our population was employed by them in some way or another. Everyone could afford to buy a home and there wasn't money problems to speak of. Growing up in the 80's in the Stevensville and St. Joe area in the heart of American made appliances (we had Zenith as well) was a life to behold. To be honest though, those days have gone. All that's left is the headquarters. Benton harbor has been abandoned and in the Stevensville/St. Joe area you rarely come across anyone that works for Whirlpool. I moved away in 2005 for work.
I haven't had luck with my last dishwashers from them and I'm going to give Bosch a go. I like the SHEM3AY56N. Going to purchase should be delivered 5/3. |
Post# 1030137 , Reply# 29   4/17/2019 at 15:54 (1,807 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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Post# 1030140 , Reply# 30   4/17/2019 at 16:45 (1,807 days old) by murando531 (Augusta, Georgia - US)   |   | |
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Not sure where the misinformation is coming from, but the smaller magnetic motors that Whirlpool and KitchenAid dishwashers use do NOT run for 20 minutes and sit for 10. Whoever thinks as such has clearly no actual experience using these machines. Once past the prewash, these machines don’t pause at all through the entire main wash and final rinse portions. And I can verify with johnb300m after owning now a WP WDT920, KitchenAid KDFE104HBS, and a WP WDF520, that these things will absolutely flip lids and plastic containers in both racks, even the Whirlpool 520 that uses the same smaller motor but doesn’t have a diverter valve and runs all arms at once.
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Post# 1030144 , Reply# 32   4/17/2019 at 17:21 (1,807 days old) by logixx (Germany)   |   | |
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Post# 1030147 , Reply# 33   4/17/2019 at 18:03 (1,807 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 1030163 , Reply# 34   4/17/2019 at 23:18 (1,807 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Its a thermal duty cycle rating based an indefinite motor life. Because the machine is not designed with a 100 year life expectancy in mind nor will it run 24/7, it makes sense from a manufacturing standpoint to economize the most expansive parts.
In other words the motor is specified with a loss of life consideration around say 20-30 years (or what ever the engineers had in mind)- meaning the odds of burning out increase after that time period. This saves on copper and iron that would otherwise to to waste when the machine is eventually scrapped. With the precision manufacturing quality of today, its possible to get a motor like that to outlast a machine a dozen times over when used within its rated duty cycle. |
Post# 1030182 , Reply# 35   4/18/2019 at 07:17 (1,807 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Thank You Chet, for the great explanation, You are very correct manufactures all designing things to be good enough rather than trying to build things that have motors that could outlast 5 DWs which we have gotten used to over the last decades, a failed main motor in a washer' or DW was a rare problem.
We are replacing a lot of these cheap intermittent duty motors on newer DWs, both the drain and main pump motors are failing much more often than before, Customers will repair many DWs once or even twice when the product is less than ten years old but after that the people willing to repair falls off and otherwise perfectly good DWs get scraped.
John |
Post# 1030192 , Reply# 36   4/18/2019 at 09:07 (1,807 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)   |   | |
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Post# 1030297 , Reply# 40   4/19/2019 at 18:20 (1,805 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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NONE ever require cleaning, and none are able to be cleaned by the consumer, because they NEVER need cleaning, the only food ever left in a DW with a chopper is what you see laying in the bottom of the DW.
You are not able to get your fingers near any sharp blades for two reasons, They don't have sharp blades and two you have to disassemble the pump assembly to get to them.
Show me one owners manual that tells you how to take a DW apart to clean the chopper or any part of the pump of a DW that has a chopper.
We are supposed to be appliance professionals here, listing to this crap over and over again makes me think I an listing to Sara Sanders at a WH briefing, LOL
John |
Post# 1030315 , Reply# 41   4/19/2019 at 22:52 (1,805 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)   |   | |
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What sold me on the Bosch SHEM3AY56N was the amount of water/minute it uses is more than even Mattag MDB4949 , the rinse cycle gets the water hottest at 162, it also had the shortest heavy duty max cycle time of any of the other washers by a fairly large margin. The pump assemblies are also all the same motors from their 800 series line on down. The real test will be real world cleaning, so I'm not getting my hopes up until I run a load and I'm not going to be totally gung-ho on Bosch until I at least get to that 5 year mark, but it looks promising.
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Post# 1030339 , Reply# 42   4/20/2019 at 12:54 (1,804 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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you guys do realize if the machine contains a food grinder...its a "SOFT FOOD" grinder....
it's not a WOOD CHIPPER! the machines I have seen with filters you had to clean, was an extra benefit for particles that could damage the pump...like broken glass... I don't pre-rinse.....just scrape off the big stuff, and toss it in, even if it has to sit for a day or two....but that's all part in seeing what my UltraWash can handle... |
Post# 1030360 , Reply# 43   4/20/2019 at 16:46 (1,804 days old) by good-shepherd (New Jersey)   |   | |
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LOL |
Post# 1030389 , Reply# 45   4/20/2019 at 23:14 (1,804 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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well they use the word 'grinder'....but in reality its more of a pulverizer/macerator....
but lets have some fun with this.....a little magic trick...as I have done this several times..... bake and frost a chocolate cake, place in dishwasher...we'll even give you the benefit of doubt, use the Heavy Cycle, at the end, the cake should be gone, and the plate spotless! I also like JohnL's test of a dried up ketchup bottle in a dishwasher.... share your results!...or even your own test |
Post# 1030394 , Reply# 47   4/21/2019 at 04:57 (1,804 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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The grinder on WP talltub (Point Voyager) models is more of a blender-type mechanism. Pic 1) The blade doesn't contact the screen to grind against it (that'd cause an increased noise level and wear on both the blade and screen). The blade whirls in the space to chop food chunks into bits small enough to pass through the screen into the soil separator. Pic 2) The screen can get clogged with debris. The example pic says "lint & hair" but paper labels, plastic wrap, and fibrous food residue can also get stuck there. |
Post# 1030449 , Reply# 49   4/21/2019 at 15:56 (1,803 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)   |   | |
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Post# 1030459 , Reply# 51   4/21/2019 at 16:57 (1,803 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)   |   | |
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Post# 1030460 , Reply# 52   4/21/2019 at 17:06 (1,803 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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I have a 4-year old Kenmore Elite with the 1-hour Expr4ess wash cycle. It uses temp from water heater. It's a prewash, rinse, main wash that's about 18 minutes long, a 1st post-wash rinse that's about 6 minutes long and the final rinse is 22-24 minutes long. The heating element is energize during the whole cycle. How do I know this? Once I had to interrupt the cycle during the prewash. I heard water sizzling on the heating element as everything was dripping (a sound I don't normally hear). The interior tempera4ture probably gets to around 125 to 130 degrees. the final rinse is so long that water temp most likely would reach at least 140 degrees. When cycle is finished, I open door and let everything flash dry usually. And the rate it "dries" is about as quick as when it's flash-dried from a normal cycle. |
Post# 1030468 , Reply# 53   4/21/2019 at 17:39 (1,803 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))   |   | |
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I red heated dry is avaible on that cycle. How much time does that add? If you would be worried about decent heat exposure for bacteria reduction purposes I would think heated dry could help with that aswell. |
Post# 1030469 , Reply# 54   4/21/2019 at 17:39 (1,803 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 1030471 , Reply# 56   4/21/2019 at 17:53 (1,803 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 1030505 , Reply# 57   4/21/2019 at 22:43 (1,803 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)   |   | |
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I was set on the Bosch, but the Kenmore with the PowerWave spray arm coupled with 7.9 gal of water in 1 hour and an extra dry option is very intriguing. I know that Andrew has raved about the TotalCoverage/PowerWave spray arm in previous posts. From what I've read, it looks like it uses a gear system to allow water to pass through different holes of the spray arm at different intervals to increase coverage and power.
I will be set to purchase on 4/30 and hopefully have a unit by 5/3. I guess it's something to think about until then. I appreciate all the input. I have definitely learned a lot in the last week. |
Post# 1030557 , Reply# 58   4/22/2019 at 16:37 (1,802 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Hi Glenn, I am really surprised that you posted this crap, The clogged grinder plate is only clogged because the drive for the grinder is stripped out.
We have serviced hundreds of WP built point voyager DWs and there is never a single particle of stuff on that grinder plate,
We have also seen dozens of clogged grinder plates like the one in the stupid video that were clogged, the solution is not cleaning the plate but instead REPLACING the broken wash impeller and or broken drive ,If you just clean it it will be clogged in one or two cycles.
Glenn You are usually one of the few people on this site that never get things wrong.
John L. |
Post# 1030558 , Reply# 59   4/22/2019 at 16:52 (1,802 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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For the record, The WP standard tub Power Clean DWs, Will grind up tooth pikes, small pieces of broken glass, one foot long spaghetti noodles, small bone pieces, cherry pits, pop corn kernels and about any vegetable pieces that are soft enough to be pulled in or small enough if they are hard to get into the grinder area.
The most frequent service calls we are doing on DWs with filters are broken glass in drain pumps and in the main pump as well, This is mainly on Bosch and WP built DWs with filters.
While the filter does in theory keep hard items out of the pumps the problem is when the user goes to remove the filter for cleaning, the little pieces of broken glass slip into the drain pump or main pump inlets and then its a $100-150 service call or more if it ruins either of the pumps.
With the above mentioned WP PC DWs the only thing that ever stops them is and aluminum screw that floats over the trap and gets into the grinder, this will result into a $150 repair.
John L. |
Post# 1030602 , Reply# 60   4/23/2019 at 05:30 (1,802 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Post# 1032845 , Reply# 61   5/16/2019 at 23:17 (1,778 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)   |   | |
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First, I just want to thank everyone that took the time to give their input and experience. It was greatly appreciated and I learned a lot from this discussion. It's great to have a forum like this to share experiences with people all around the world who share a love for appliances as much as I do.
For me it came down to the Bosch 100 Series SHEM3AY56N and the Kenmore Ultra Wash PowerWave 13229. Both had similar price points. The Bosch right around $450 and the Kenmore right around $450 as well (after the Sears sale and using a $35 off coupon code). Sears also had an extra bonus of $150 worth of rewards points paid back in 10 monthly installments, which I can use to buy vacuum bags. So, after all said and done the Kenmore would end up coming in at $300. Both offered a stainless tub, but the Bosch had a plastic bottom, while the Kenmore was completely stainless. Whether or not an extra 25% of stainless steel would make a difference with drying, I'm not sure, but stainless does retain heat better. Having a stainless bottom should in theory do a better job of keeping the water hot and heating the water faster. I really liked Bosch's bottom rack. It seemed very organized. I took my plates, bowls, and cups down to Lowes to see how everything would fit. The Bosch had a place for large plates, another for small bowls, another for small plates, and I could fit a few big bowls in between. However, my family goes through a LOT of cups and the upper rack tines did not fit my needs. There was a spot for bowls and another row that was too small to fit cups. On my previous dishwasher (a Kitchenaid), I would use all 5 rows most of the time. While the Kenmore's middle rack was designed for small bowls it wasn't too wide and I could fit wide cups in there and they wouldn't move around too much. So, overall, the Kenmore rack was something that fit my family needs a lot better. Speaking of cups, some of my cups have extra concave bottoms and the Bosch’s lack of a top spray arm had me questioning whether debris pooling on the bottom of cups was something that could end up being a problem. I really love a front panel countdown display with actual buttons, which both supplied, but the Kenmore's buttons just seemed more sturdy. While the outside round buttons felt strong on the Bosch, the rectangular buttons closest to the timer felt flimsy to me. I questioned whether that would be a problem down the line with buttons popping off. According to the parts manual, the Bosch had the same pump motors as the 800 models! I'm sure the water pressure would be good (as I’ve seen in dishwasher videos of the 800). However, after watching a reviewed.com video inside a Kenmore with a PowerWave spray arm and Andrew's video of his Total Coverage arm, I was simply blown away by the water pressure. A lot of times with a name like PowerWave I would think it was just a gimmick, but the PowerWave truly does live up to its name. It also helped that Andrew had raved about his Total Coverage spray arm as well. The Bosch had the best overall cycle options in my opinion. It had the shortest timed heavy cycle. It also had the hottest wash and rinse. With all that good stuff from the Bosch, I just couldn't get over the PowerWave spray arm coupled with a 7.9 gal 1 hour wash cycle and a heated dry option. That's probably as close as one is going to get to old school wash. As far as reliability, the truth is, I haven't had great luck with Whirlpool the last decade. My first Whirlpool lost it's pump and my recent KitchenAid lost it's main board. On the other hand, I was supposed to get a Bosch instead of the KitchenAid last time, but the Bosch came with a bad pump off the bat, so I got scared off and returned it for the KitchenAid. Both the Bosch and Kenmore seemed like great washers, especially for their price, but it was one that stuck out to me a little more than the other as a better fit. I chose the Kenmore Ultra Wash Powerwave 13229! So, I purchased online from Sears on 4/30 and it was delivered on 5/4. Here are some of the Pros and cons of the machine after use. Pros: 1. The 1 hour wash with heated dry option. It definitely lives up to its name. This isn't a quick wash cycle for lightly soiled dishes. I wish I had a GoPro so that I could see the inside. It sounds like a lake in there. It gets the dishes clean and the dishes are steaming hot when its done. The other night I washed a stainless steel pan I had used to cook burgers in. It had burnt bits and grease all over it. After the cycle, there was a quarter inch spec of burnt burger on it. So close! All the other dishes were grease free, so I'm happy to say it just didn't distribute the grease everywhere else. 2. The front panel display. I like the color of digital green numbers on a black panel. The buttons are textile and responsive. 3. The black panel. My last Kitchenaid was stainless and it was absolutely horrible to take care of. Water spots galore on that front panel. It was before print shield, so I'm not sure how good stainless is now, but I really like the good ol' black panel. It's easy to wipe clean. 4. Slide up detergent dispenser. They must have finally run out of the old, flip up dispensers, because mine came with the slide up. It's nice not to have to worry what I put in the front of my bottom rack. Cons: 1. Part of the reason that I'm so late with the update is that the first one came with a leaky door on the left side. When I got the box the left corner of the box was wet. When I felt the insulation under the door it was wet on the left side. The door was not closing well either. So, I believe the dishwasher was layed face down and the pump water that comes in the dishwasher leaked out. Then once it was place right side up, it leaked out of the door. I called sears and they remedied the situation and let me know the next dishwasher would be inspected at the warehouse before being shipped to me. 2. Rinse aid is necessary to get things totally dry. With my last Kitchenaid, there was no need to use rinse aid. It had an exhaust fan and prodry option. I'm not sure I can truly count this as a con, because this dishwasher has to make a price point and there are more expensive dishwashers that have the turbo dry option if you pay for it. 3. Super long pots and pans cycle. We are talking 4 hours folks, if you select heated dry and sanitize. This used to not bother me, I would just set my old dishwasher on before bed and in the morning I was good-to-go, but the 1 hour wash has spoiled me a bit. I have to admit it's kinda nice to be able to do a load and get it done before bed if I wish. So, overall I'm very happy with my purchase. Thanks for all the help and suggestions! Here are a few pictures |
Post# 1032855 , Reply# 63   5/17/2019 at 01:21 (1,778 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Just to say, seems it's a misconception that stainless steel dishwasher tanks retain heat by nature moreso than plastic. They require insulation on the exterior. A simple test ... Hold a stainless steel or other metal pan on your hand and pour boiling water into it ... see how long you can hold it. Feel the heat passing through? Now do that with a plastic bowl (of sturdy enough material to handle the temperature). Not so much heat passing through, right? |
Post# 1032881 , Reply# 64   5/17/2019 at 11:21 (1,777 days old) by IowaBear (Cedar Rapids, IA)   |   | |
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Post# 1032892 , Reply# 66   5/17/2019 at 12:38 (1,777 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)   |   | |
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Agreed, stainless steel does allow heat to pass through it much more than plastic due to its conductive properties, but that is greatly minimized once you add closed cell sponge and fiberglass insulation into the equation.
The first fill in a stainless tub there will be loss of heat as it absorbs into the steel. That's as far as most of the heat escapes, thanks to the insulation. Since the steel absorbed heat on the first fill, subsiquent fills will now heat up quicker due to the steel acting as a passive heating element. For example: take that same stainless pot and put closed cell sponge and fiberglass insulation around it. Pour the boiling water in it and into the plastic bowl. Let it sit for a couple minutes. Empty the bowls. Now pour boiling water back in the plastic bowl and the insullated stainless bowl. 2 minutes later take the temperature and see which bowl was able to keep the water temp higher. Stainless tubs will retain more heat, because it stores heat in the steel while the plastic tub allows the heat to drain out with the water. Plastic tubs are great when you have 750 watt heating elements, but now we are dealing with 400 watt elements and washers can use all the help they can to get water temperature up quicker. |
Post# 1032894 , Reply# 67   5/17/2019 at 13:39 (1,777 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)   |   | |
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Post# 1032899 , Reply# 68   5/17/2019 at 14:48 (1,777 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)   |   | |
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Vacerator:
Sorry, about your dad. Yeah, Michigan has been a tough place to live in the last 15 years. I made a lot of good memories there, but I love North Carolina. Glad things have worked out for you all now, fellow Michigander. I'm still a die hard Lions fan and looking forward to hopefully a better season this year. Enjoy your summer up there. IowaBear: You are welcome! Yeah, Sears will have some really good deals. Ours is closing in 6 months. They are putting a Publix in the mall to replace it. |
Post# 1032904 , Reply# 69   5/17/2019 at 17:01 (1,777 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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With the thousands of DWs I have dealt with I can discern no performance differences that are attributable to whether the machine has a SS or Plastic tank, or for that matter a porclean on steel tank.
There are significant differences in drying ability of the hundreds of different DW designs that have been produced over the past 60+ years but drying ability is really a matter of heat and ventilation etc.
The only real difference between SS & Plastic is fire risk and SS recycles more readily than plastic when the DW gets scraped.
John |
Post# 1032908 , Reply# 70   5/17/2019 at 19:27 (1,777 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)   |   | |
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About a year ago we bought a new house and put in a Bosch 800 Series Machine. Won't buy another. We've had two others, older models in other houses and they were fine. This one has a filter that is not self cleaning. After about a month the interior took on this awful odor. We discovered it was the filter and now if we don't clean it at least once a week the dishwasher smells awful.
We don't rinse dishes we just knock food off or scrape if needed. The machine cleans pretty well but the cycles are long. I don't hate the racks but will likely replace it in the next year or so. The filter is a pain too clean. It's not a quick rinse, you have to scrub it with a brush to get it clean. |
Post# 1032935 , Reply# 71   5/18/2019 at 04:40 (1,777 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)   |   | |
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So, I decided to update my bitchy post with photos and as I looked at the glasses in the photos I noticed that the build up on our filter everyday could be our smoothies. I never thought about it until I looked at these photos. So I guess the question to the experts is, should this matter? The smoothies are things like fruit, spinach and Kale. They are liquified in a Vitamix. Shouldn't what's left of these get washed down the drain?
The picture of this filter is two days worth and if I don't clean it by the end of the week it is covered thick and stinks. The other pictures are of a typical load for us. I run it every couple of days and as I said we don't rinse. I suppose if we rinsed the smoothie glasses we might not get the build up. It just bugs me because we never had this in any of our vintage machines or the Bosch we had in the old house. |
Post# 1032943 , Reply# 72   5/18/2019 at 07:40 (1,777 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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I think everyone knows that I hate DWs with filters, they always start to stink and your final rinse water is always being drawn over and through the muck on the filter.
DWs with filters just lead people into rinsing the dishes before loading wasting water and time. I remember when I was in HS one of best friends Moms got a new KA KDC-16 DW [ we had a 1966 KM 400 DW built by D&M at the time ] and I asked her why she was rinsing all the dishes when loading, I said we never did with our DW. She said it was either rinse the dishes now or clean the messy filter every few days and so she always rinsed.
I have posted pictures of a typical load we do in our WP PC DWs, I can tear the complete pump apart in one of our DWs and not find a thimble full of gunk stuck in it.
Hi Chach, you might try putting about 2 TS of DW detergent on the door when you start the DW cycle, having detergent in the first fill might reduce the gunk that gets stuck on the filter. |
Post# 1032957 , Reply# 73   5/18/2019 at 10:33 (1,776 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)   |   | |
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Post# 1032959 , Reply# 74   5/18/2019 at 10:51 (1,776 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)   |   | |
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Post# 1032969 , Reply# 77   5/18/2019 at 13:40 (1,776 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)   |   | |
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I have a chance to get a Whirlpool DU850SWPS4 for $50. It’s in good condition. Thought I might give it a run. Is this a good model?
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Post# 1032994 , Reply# 78   5/18/2019 at 18:54 (1,776 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 1032997 , Reply# 79   5/18/2019 at 20:51 (1,776 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Hi John, That is one of the basic WP machines designed to compete with GEs builder models, they are decent basic machines but I would skip it for your main DW needs.
We have smoothies almost every day and there is no way I am going to rinse or scrape the insides of glasses before putting them in a DW, Not when you can buy an American Union built Maytag DW for the same or less money that does not have a filter and gets everything clean without leaving crap for me to clean out by hand.
A 140F water does not sterilize the food waste in the filter, it may hold germs at bay for an hour or so till the machine cools off and the germs start multiplying again like crazy at which point they start to smell.
John |
Post# 1033008 , Reply# 81   5/19/2019 at 00:18 (1,776 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)   |   | |
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Post# 1033682 , Reply# 82   5/26/2019 at 16:55 (1,768 days old) by dylanmitchell (Southern California)   |   | |
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What current model year dish washer clean well, use the most water, and have a grinder? I'm also looking to replace my dishwasher.
If you're having trouble with build up on you "fryer" you may want to try Cascade with Phosphates Professional Fryer Boil Out with phosphate, sodium carbonate, non-ionic surfactant, and chlorine bleach. CLICK HERE TO GO TO dylanmitchell's LINK |
Post# 1033770 , Reply# 83   5/27/2019 at 22:49 (1,767 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)   |   | |
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I can vouch for how STICKY fiber is on the filters of dishwashers.
The pic I included portrays the fibers left from a glass of psyllium husk powder, that I mildly rinsed. One glass. One wash. This will stay on till I clean it. It will attract more debris. The filter in my KA is virtually self cleaning. Load after load. Except, when faced with fiber. For some reason that never comes off. I’ve had pieces not come off of spoons! Unless I scraped It off with another spoon. It’s incredible stuff. I can’t really blame the machine or filter after experiencing psyllium husk powder.
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Post# 1033792 , Reply# 84   5/28/2019 at 09:55 (1,767 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)   |   | |
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If I use the Cascade Fryer Boil Out (provided I can find it) will I do any damage to my dishwasher considering it was not designed for that kind of detergent? We have a Restaurant supply store a few miles up the road I can check with them on it.
It's one year old, is all stainless on the inside. I think some have a plastic bottom but mine does not if that matters.
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Post# 1033794 , Reply# 85   5/28/2019 at 10:46 (1,766 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 1033800 , Reply# 86   5/28/2019 at 11:43 (1,766 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)   |   | |
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Thanks John. I had a feeling that would be the answer. I appreciate the suggestion Matthew but I think I'll stay away from the Boil Out. To add insult to injury we have a water softener so it sounds like that would be even worse.
I have been putting a couple of Tablespoons of soap on the door before I start the dishwasher as you suggested along with a Finish tab in the dispenser. I haven't checked the filter in a couple of days but the dishwasher isn't smelling yet as it would have been so that may be helping.
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Post# 1033817 , Reply# 87   5/28/2019 at 16:04 (1,766 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania)   |   | |
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Seems like nothing will deal well with fiber - except our intestines. I guess that is why is it recommended to eat as it will clean out anything in there that is left and then keep humans healthier in the process. |
Post# 1033860 , Reply# 88   5/29/2019 at 09:14 (1,766 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 1033863 , Reply# 89   5/29/2019 at 12:53 (1,765 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)   |   | |
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Post# 1033888 , Reply# 90   5/29/2019 at 19:15 (1,765 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan and Palm Springs, CA)   |   | |
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Post# 1033891 , Reply# 91   5/29/2019 at 19:38 (1,765 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))   |   | |
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Would make sense that it handels fibre well then. Like a bagless vacuum: Getting the heavier denser parts via force is easy, getting the verry fine things requires fine filters. |
Post# 1034548 , Reply# 93   6/5/2019 at 11:38 (1,758 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)   |   | |
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Hey Mrsalvo,
I was meaning to update everyone, but coaching baseball, end of year for kids, ect. has gotten in the way. So, just to make a long story short, I have returned the Kenmore 13229 and bought the Maytag MDB8989. When I get time to do a little write up I will go into greater detail. Until then, its a good washer for the money. However, if you are able to spend $200 more I would recommend the Maytag. |
Post# 1035187 , Reply# 95   6/12/2019 at 18:36 (1,751 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)   |   | |
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I have an LG dishwasher that is going on it’s 2nd year and absolutely no issues to report. I am very happy with it. It holds a ton of dishes and every load is spotless that comes out of it. The LG LDF 5545 that I have replaced a 10 year old Miele LaPerla that lost its mind...control computer....I hated to part with it but to repair would have been putting another $1000 in it, at that price, a new one made more sense.
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Post# 1037601 , Reply# 96   7/9/2019 at 13:02 (1,724 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)   |   | |
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Just to update everyone, I'm on my 5th dishwasher...
So to quickly sum everything up: I first bought the Kenmore 13229. The first one came with a leaky door so it was returned. The second one came and was working fine, definitely worth the price, but I found myself wondering what if on the Maytag 8989. So, I returned the Kenmore and bought the Maytag. The first Maytag had a dent in the far right corner so bad that the bottom rack couldn't even be put back in the machine without turning it sideways and was returned. I even noted to the girl at Lowes that the box looked pretty beat up when she was bringing it out to me, but she said they all look this way and it will be fine... The second one washed well in the beginning, but the powerdry stopped working within the first 2 weeks. The machine would go into a wash cycle. Toward the end of the wash cycle all the lights on the machine would turn off for a few minutes and the machine wouldn't do anything, the wash light would then come back on for a few minutes without the machine doing anything, then it would go into dry mode, but the fan would never run. I had a repair man come out and I let him know what was going on. He ran the diagnostics program and said everything was working fine...Took him all of ten minutes and also told me to never run the dishwasher on sanitize or it will eventually melt the control board... After he left there was still no powerdry. Maybe I wasn't paying as much attention as when I first got the machine, but it seemed like it wasn't using as much water anymore. It would do a fill and only empty a very small amount of water and reuse most of the water from the initial fill. This would be evident in the sink disposer drain and by morning all that water would condensate on the dishes and there would be an off smell of dirty dishwater in there. I was still within my 30 days and decided to return this washer. On to my 5th dishwasher. I decided to give Bosch a try. I decided on the SHP865WF5N 500 series. I was a little worried about the tines, but the key is the adjustable tines. I can fit 20 cups on the top rack (5 less than I can in a whirlpool machine). There is a section of tines that are too small to put any cups in, but I find it perfect for lids. I can also drop the second rack all the way down and still have the second rack wash arm clear all my large plates. This allows me to put extra tall cups and water bottles on the second rack and still be able to use the 3rd rack for utensils. This was something I could not do with Whirlpool machines. The second rack wash arm would hit plates at its lowest setting. At it highest setting I would have to remove the 3rd rack. It's the most powerful post 2012 dishwasher I've ever owned. When the sump empties into the sink disposer it does it with more power than the 2015 Kitchenaid, Maytag 8989, or Kenmore 13229. I would like to get a GoPro inside to witness the wash action, but I do know it has enough power to flip full size Tupperware food storage containers and by the sound of the wash action it sounds extremely powerful. So far every dish has come out spotless. Speaking of spotless, the stainless steel is not on this model. However, 3 coats of Johnson's paste wax has solved that. The stainless steel on this model is magnetic. Drying action is ok. With the extra dry option, you don't need drying agent. I've used cascade drying agent set on level 2 with the sanitize option enabled. With this setup you don't need extra dry. The Bosch offers lots of nice cycle options. It's got your basic Heavy, Auto, Normal cycles, but it also has a 30 minute wash for light loads that you might need done in the middle of the day. It has a half load option that cuts 30 minutes from the wash time, sanitize, extra dry, and delicate options that you can add to every cycle except the 30 minute cycle. It also allows you to digitally turn off the drying agent or set the appropriate level. I set this dishwasher to Heavy or Auto with the Sanitize option enabled and the drying agent level set at 2. In just under 2 hours everything is clean and dry. I just had some weird luck with machines. The Kenmore is a good buy for $400. In that price range I wouldn't hesitate to buy it. I'm not sure what to say about the Maytag. The cleaning seemed great in the beginning. It seemed like it used more water than it did toward the end. I do have to say, everything seems like high quality from the Bosch. From the packaging, to the motor, to the interior. I wish I would have taken some pictures of how well it was packaged, but I was totally over it and just wanted to get a machine installed. The great thing too is it was put together here in North Carolina. For all those dishwasher shopping I hope you have better luck than me. I will say that I am grateful with how everything ended, because I am extremely happy with the Bosch! |
Post# 1037656 , Reply# 97   7/9/2019 at 18:52 (1,724 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)   |   | |
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Wow, that is quite the Dishwasher Caper.
Sorry it took you so many machines. It really disturbs me the sheer amount of good machines that get damaged and destroyed in shipping. Probably all to get trashed. Such a waste. The Maytag issues are concerning. WP makes a dam good dishwasher, but I'm not surprised to hear that they are starting to have quality issues. WP has been rabidly cost-cutting the past few years due to looming materials costs. And now a huge tariff headwind on imports and raw materials. They gonna be hurting for a while...... Either way, glad to hear Bosch has not let that stuff get them down! Bosch is always my 'Plan B.' Enjoy! |
Post# 1037684 , Reply# 98   7/10/2019 at 01:07 (1,724 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)   |   | |
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Post# 1037753 , Reply# 101   7/10/2019 at 16:03 (1,723 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)   |   | |
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"never run the dishwasher on sanitize or it will eventually melt the control board... "
This honestly doesn't make sense. I think it was a lazy i.e. A&E service man saying this. Probably along the same training that the one had that told me the pump was supposed to cavitate low on water, and the vapor door/dry didn't have to work just up the rinse aid., and if you want clean dishes you have to wash them first, and Cascade detergent is horrible you shouldn't use it.
It's these lazy service persons that are giving some of the machines and their manufacturers a bad name.
Full disclosure: I hate A&E factory service and they will never be allowed in my home again. The problem I had with the machine was repaired by myself by simply replacing the defective fill valve, and I have owned the machine for six, going on seven years. Wash nearly every load on sanitize, and have never melted the control board, even when the vent was malfunctioning. |
Post# 1037793 , Reply# 103   7/10/2019 at 21:19 (1,723 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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I've had one experience with A&E, warranty replacement of the drive pulley/clutch on my Neptune TL. The tech wasn't horrendous. She arrived within the stated timeframe, confirmed the problem, and had the part on the truck. She had a some trouble getting the replacement installed because there are two styles of basket drives, one has an extra piece, the other doesn't. Replacements include the extra piece, which is to be discarded if not needed. She tried to install it with the extra piece and it wouldn't fit properly. I pointed out the problem, she accepted the advice without question, got it done and went on her way ... but I can't say how long it would have taken her to figure out the problem if I hadn't provided the tip. |
Post# 1037811 , Reply# 104   7/11/2019 at 03:04 (1,723 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))   |   | |
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It is shocking how far and few between female technicians are over here, no matter the field... Kinda sad... |
Post# 1037825 , Reply# 105   7/11/2019 at 06:09 (1,723 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Hi Henrik, I totally agree with post # 104,
Unfortunately it is not common in the US to see female techs either, I have thought that this is a great field for men or women. Back in the late 70s Sears trained quite a few women techs but I have not seen one since the 80s in the appliance field.
Attention Employment Opportunity : , We are looking for a person to hire and train for an exciting career selling and servicing major appliances.
We are located in Maryland and also work in Washington DC, this area is among the best places to live and work in the world, get in touch with me if interested.
John L. |
Post# 1037990 , Reply# 106   7/12/2019 at 13:48 (1,721 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)   |   | |
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I have found it depends on the water what detergent works best for me. When we lived on a farm with HARD well water, Electrasol gave us the best results. In town, Cascade gives me the best results. I agree with the action packs, more of an economy version. I use the Platinum, and have no complaints.
I have also used Finish Quantum with no complaints, I just prefer the Cascade.
I will note that the Commercial (phosphated stuff) worked well with my older machine that washed at 160 and had a short wash, but I find it tends to leave a white film on the dishes in the HE machine, even when running High temp wash/sanitize rinse. |
Post# 1038205 , Reply# 107   7/14/2019 at 13:42 (1,719 days old) by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio)   |   | |
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The new Cascade Complete Platinum is great except for the foaming. P$G needs to address this! |
Post# 1038239 , Reply# 108   7/14/2019 at 17:47 (1,719 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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I've been using up a small stash of Cascade (non-Complete) Platinum pacs. They cause so much foaming that I once heard my DD top-off the fill level twice during the prewash period ... which I've never heard it do at all in the 15+ years prior. I can say Platinum handles egg residue very nicely ... and I can also say it doesn't touch tea stains at all ... and I can also say that I don't care for the lingering scent, which is lessened by running the Heavy cycle that has 3 after-rinses. |
Post# 1038462 , Reply# 109   7/16/2019 at 20:01 (1,717 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)   |   | |
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Up until last year I used Cascade Complete powder. It worked great. Then it started leaving a slippery feeling on dry dishes. I then switched to Cascade platinum tabs. Everything was great until about a month ago and then same feeling on the dishes. I tried the plain ol’ Finish Powerball Deep Clean that came with my Bosch and no more slippery dishes. When the two samples ran out I tried the Cascade Platinum tabs and once again slippery dishes. I’ve since ditched the Cascade and went back with Finish. I’m thinking they changed something in their powder formula and it has since made its way into the tabs.
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Post# 1044635 , Reply# 110   9/12/2019 at 12:37 (1,659 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)   |   | |
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Hey y’all.
Figure I’d share the state of my KA filter based machine after 3 days worth of dirty glasses from psyllium husk drinks. It’s quite caked on. And will not self clean. The dishes however are spotless. I just have to be mindful to clean the filter after any fiber drinks I make. And never really in other situations. It usually takes care of itself.
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Post# 1044645 , Reply# 111   9/12/2019 at 14:21 (1,659 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)   |   | |
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Post# 1044710 , Reply# 112   9/13/2019 at 05:18 (1,659 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)   |   | |
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Post# 1044812 , Reply# 113   9/13/2019 at 19:50 (1,658 days old) by twintubdexter (Palm Springs)   |   | |
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