Thread Number: 80933  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Seeking advice with issue on Miele W1926
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Post# 1049296   10/29/2019 at 17:12 (1,584 days old) by Deafboy (Boston)        

Hi,

First post on this forum!

My wife and I purchased the Miele W1926 washer (and matching dryer T1526) shortly our marriage in 1998. The appliance set is probably the best purchase I ever made (with the fine exception of a wedding ring :). The Miele have been running almost flawlessly since and clean clothes exceptionally well.

Unfortunately this week the washer is showing an issue with a loud noise during the final spin @1200 rpm and damaged door seal in the form of powdered grey rubber.

So the rotating drum is rubbing against the seal...

I removed and cleaned the door seal. Close inspection shows only minor damage. The rubber itself seems in very good condition.

I also cleaned the lip of the inner drum because the rubber left a hard gritty residue that transformed the drum into a grinder. So the washer may work ok for a while.

Lifting and lowering the drum by hand and a jerking it front & back, I notice that there is no play in the movement. Rotating it makes no nasty noise. To me this indicates the bearings are in good condition.

OTOH, rotating the drum by hand the drum moves a excentrically by about 6 mm. This, I surmise, causes the drum lip to slightly pinch the door seal against the outer drum at high rpm.

That said, looking at various internet sites on Miele washers, it appears the excentric movement of the drum is caused by a damaged inner drum "spider" (that joins the drum and spindle).

I have two questions:
1) Do you think the issue is caused by the damaged spider?
2) Is the spider replaceable? I ask this second question because the attached parts diagram doesn't show the spider as a component, nor the spindle, leading me to conclude the spider, spindle and inner drum form an inseparable assembly (part #12).

Regards,
Michel






  View Full Size



Post# 1049354 , Reply# 1   10/30/2019 at 02:18 (1,583 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

I would assume that's the spider, sadly, yeah.

Bearings would make a grinding noise, dampers would scratch the doorglass.



Not entirely sure, but I think the drum and the tub are bolted together.
So you should be abled to seperate them.

Thing is that these parts are - if they even are avaible - prohibitivley expensive.
In the region of upwards of 500$ probably, if not more like 1000$.

So new spider or tub isn't worth it by a longshot.



Looking for a parts donor machine is basicly the only real option there.
Parting that out (or vise versa), keeping stuff like motor, PCBs, valves, drum/spider.
Then take the replacement spider, clean it up, check it for damage, repair it as far as possible, somehow get it coated against any corrosion, then use that from there on.

But pulling out the tub first to check is a good first step.



Post# 1049356 , Reply# 2   10/30/2019 at 04:28 (1,583 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, Thereīs a Lady on Stage)        
Please search archives

launderess's profile picture
As there are a few threads regarding your situation.

This is a good start: www.automaticwasher.org/c...

Miele washers of old had cast iron spiders, but at some point things were switched to aluminum, then to steel or maybe back to cast iron.

It is possible (IIRC) to remove spider from drum, but not likely easy.





Now here's the pay off!

If problem does turn out to be indeed a damaged spider, then you'll have only a few options. Use the washer until it no longer is operable, or attempt to do the repair DIY. Miele USA will not repair drum/spider issues in home. Machine must be packed up and sent to Miele's workshops in NJ, work done, then returned. If Miele does consent to do the repair you'll pay freight to and from NJ, plus parts and labor. Needless to say a new machine can be had for same or less.

Miele does not sell just the spider, but whole drum assembly. If in stock likely will run near or over $1K plus shipping.

If indeed spider is damaged you likely are better off scouting about for another 19XX series washer to use for donor parts. That if if in better condition than one you have now, just use a "new" machine and part out the old.


Post# 1049383 , Reply# 3   10/30/2019 at 08:56 (1,583 days old) by Deafboy (Boston)        

Thanks for the advice. It's a bummer that the path to inspect the drum/spider/spindle is so difficult.

Suppose I look for a parts machine, the spider from a W1926 is interchangeable with other W19xx machines? Doesn't the 1926 have a larger capacity drums? Are there other models of Miele washers I can use the spider?

@henene4
My door glass does have a few scratches/gouges. How is this related to the damper?

@Launderess
Thanks for the most excellent links!
I'll consider a donor machine. I guess it's a crap shoot because it is difficult to ascertain the condition of the parts that I need.


Post# 1049385 , Reply# 4   10/30/2019 at 09:25 (1,583 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, Thereīs a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Scratches on glass porthole.

When dampers go they no longer can control drum movements. So suds container bounces about extremely often banging or rubbing against the glass porthole. Those marks are a sure sign dampers have gone or are going.

Happened with my Miele W1070; had tech come out and replace both, no problems since. When doing a damper repair always replace both regardless if only one is damaged/going.

Yes, sadly Miele washers of 19XX vintage do not have rear serviceability. Everything either is done from front or top of machine. So no, there isn't an easy way to tell exactly what is going on at rear of drum. Only thing for it is removal.

The 1926 and IIRC had slightly larger suds containers than say 1918 and others of that series. If going down the donor parts swap it would be best just to switch entire drum assembly. This rather than attempting to get spider off both drums, then putting the "new" on older.

Again look around, you just might find a 1926 or other washer from same series going cheap. If in good enough condition just use that machine and leave other for parts.

If you truly want a professional diagnosis you can arrange for Miele to come out and examine your washer. It won't be cheap, but at least you'll know one way or another. Again if it is the spider don't bother asking Miele to repair they won't on site. Damper replacement they will do, but if you're reaonably handy and have proper tools that job is easy enough.


Post# 1049390 , Reply# 5   10/30/2019 at 10:37 (1,583 days old) by Deafboy (Boston)        

Re: Glass door. Ah, I get it now! Indeed the gouges are aligned with the lip of the inner drum (see picture below). I wonder if these "hits" caused the drum to now be excentric.

I'm very handy so if I can get the parts I should be able to replace them myself.

What is IIRC?


  View Full Size
Post# 1049413 , Reply# 6   10/30/2019 at 14:45 (1,583 days old) by Deafboy (Boston)        

Well, I just ordered the dampers from Miele (9819130) @ $56.09.

In the process I also inquired about the cost of the inner drum ($819) and the bearing kit ($241). The friendly Miele representative (Ron) said shipping the drum to my location would be about $80.


Post# 1049421 , Reply# 7   10/30/2019 at 15:30 (1,583 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Bearing kit

Would skip that, just get the old bearings out, go to a good hardwear store and they can usualy set you up with equally good bearings (would say if not better, but these machines should use TOL SKF bearings, so not much better on the market) and a matching seal for like 80 bucks if even.

IIRC = If I remeber correctly

And yeah these skuff marks are what we are talking about.
With so few marks dampers should still be fine, but at 21 years it really is just a matter of time.


Post# 1049671 , Reply# 8   11/2/2019 at 06:01 (1,580 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, Thereīs a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
"It's a bummer that the path to inspect the drum/spider/spindle is so difficult."

Keep in mind for these older Miele washers things like a spider, rear bearing failure and a few other things didn't exactly occur with frequency. If something did happen early on it likely would have done so during warranty period. In that case Miele would do the work, but take machine to Princeton, NJ workshops.

Case in point a member purchased a new Miele 4XXX series washer that just wouldn't work right out of the box IIRC. In short order an issue developed which turned out to be a rear bearing failure. Washer was barely a few months old, and Miele swore up and down that this "couldn't happen" and that "you (owner) must have done something wrong..." but it did and he didn't.

Long story short at first Miele offered to do the repair at no cost under warranty,but machine had to go back to NJ. Member opted for a new machine instead.....

Until rather recently all Miele washers were designed to be serviced from front or top. This was expensive design, but then again the main parts that would fail over useful life of machine could be accessed from either way. Getting those heavy old cast iron motors out of washer through front was difficult, but could be done if one knew how.

Miele just didn't envision things like a spider/drum repair being a DIY operation. Again why would they? Miele washers of old routinely lasted 20, 30 or more years. So by time a spider or bearings went machine could have been said to have given good service.

Modern Miele washers like other European machines have side panels that come off, and IIRC even the rear can be removed.

One thing to understand also is that Miele considers W700, W1065, W1070, and IIRC entire 19XX series of washers "obsolete". Parts are no longer being imported from Europe (unless they also are part of modern offerings), and in many cases techs are no longer being trained to work on these machines.

Older techs who started out with Miele decades ago when these washers were being sold either have retired or have moved up, and thus don't do service out calls.

Have an older Miele washer, and that company has at times basically told me off, and or warned me off making further service requests. At one point was even offered a discount on a new machine if would let them take my old one away and stop bothering Miele with service calls.


Have long guessed MieleUSA does not do some repairs in homes due to workman comp issues. In shop those heavy cast iron tubs are removed via a winch, don't think many home owners have those lying about spare.

All this being said as noted above if one knows what one is doing, and has time along with proper tools most Miele washer repairs can be done in home. Even in tight quarters.

www.houzz.com/discussions...

Miele's general argument against repairing older washers is that at some point it becomes a fools errand. That is one day it's the spider/tub assembly. Next year the motor (brushes). Then maybe water valves, relay, capacitor, and so forth. At some point one has spent the equal of a new washing machine (or close enough).


Post# 1049709 , Reply# 9   11/2/2019 at 16:38 (1,580 days old) by Brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Hi Laundress

The current gen W1 machines are now only serviceable from the top and bottom again. Itís a solid cube cabinet once more, this time without the inspection panel at the rear. The sides are no longer removable.

Unfortunately I can see it making them much more expensive to service. When I got my W1, I had to clean out the sump hose as part of mould remediation and there were a lot of bits from the power wash pump to remove to be able to disconnect the sump hose.

Maybe from the bottom it is easier, but Iím not too sure how.

Regards

Nathan


Post# 1049710 , Reply# 10   11/2/2019 at 16:45 (1,580 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, Thereīs a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Well that bit of news has put me off considering a Miele W1.

Cannot imagine difficulty in replacing dampers going in from bottom of washer. What is Miele thinking these days?

Front service was fine for most things, though damper replacement could be tricky on left side. Of course side panel openings were a piece of cake. But this top or bottom only is just stupid IMHO.


Post# 1049716 , Reply# 11   11/2/2019 at 18:15 (1,580 days old) by bewitched (Italy)        

Miele w1 machines have front , top and rear removable. Just the sides are not removable. I had mine serviced to put in place a modification to the twin dos pipes and the machine was completely open front , top and rear so no pain to service it. the only things that are no longer replaceable by do it yourself people are electronic boards that must be reprogrammed when replaced by a Miele technician.

Post# 1049717 , Reply# 12   11/2/2019 at 18:16 (1,580 days old) by bewitched (Italy)        

Miele w1 machines have front , top and rear removable. Just the sides are not removable. I had mine serviced to put in place a modification to the twin dos pipes and the machine was completely open front , top and rear so no pain to service it. the only things that are no longer replaceable by do it yourself people are electronic boards that must be reprogrammed when replaced by a Miele technician.

Post# 1049722 , Reply# 13   11/2/2019 at 18:59 (1,580 days old) by Brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Marco, from what I can tell, the first Generation W1s are like that. The current generation are not.

I havenít pulled a current generation apart, but From what I can see, that is the case.

Miele have also told me this, my friend at the unboxed outlet was very clear on this, the current generation is much harder to service, she advised stick with the first gen W1 until the new generation had more hours and time


Post# 1049748 , Reply# 14   11/3/2019 at 01:57 (1,580 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Ugh, sorry to dissappoint, but the cabinets are basicly exactly the same throughout the entire W1 series.

Not much has changed actually.
The rear has still a service panel, top is removable, fronts should be as well.
Miele would never change a complete cabinet design after only 2 years. Just financially completly unviable.

Actually, Miele would never do a top and bottom only design.
Would make no sense.
You'd have to pull the entire machine apart to change a heater. Which btw is one of the few pretty "cheap" repairs on these machines.
And from a perspective of assembly in factory, either the cabinet or the drum would still have to be verry easily removable.



Also dunno where you draw the line for "second gen" as by my accounts we do have 3 major generations at least by now.
More so 4 or even 5 depending on if you count major software revisions as well.
Had the PowerWash, then the first PowerWash 2.0, then the extended PowerWash 2.0, then they changed the display panel, now we have the current gen with PowerWash 2.0 on Delicates even with the Eco 40-60 cycle showing up.

Also the service manual for the Washer/Dryer that I have that uses the normal depth cabinet still has a removable front panel.


Post# 1049749 , Reply# 15   11/3/2019 at 03:11 (1,579 days old) by Brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Hi Henrik

Does the front come off your new one? Iíve had Miele sales and service tell me that the current models are different. The service guy whilst he was here and talking about how much easier my wKH130 is to service compared to the next generation. Does yours still have the bolt under the boot on the front? And the back panel is still screwed in place with visible screws or are they rivets?

On mine itís a piece of galvanized steel that is screwed in place. I was wrong on that point.

It looks like compared to the classic machines, the front and back come off mine, but the sides are fixed. Whereas the classic machines had the back fixed and the three sides removable.

Im only going on what the service engineer told me. He was here 6 weeks ago to do service and he commented then. Can you take pics of the front and back?

Iím going to have to go and play with some new ones to see what looks different.


Post# 1049751 , Reply# 16   11/3/2019 at 06:20 (1,579 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
Miele W1

ozzie908's profile picture
Are they 2nd generation if it says Powerwash 2 on it?

I have no compulsion to take mine apart as when I registered it with Miele they gave me a free 5 year warranty so I removed it from my appliance contract it really is quiet compared to my W4449 and I thought that was still quiet enough but its nice to have peace and quiet when its running and I have to say the quick wash cycle is pretty good an hour for a 60 or 40c wash it rinses well too.

So I have seen the bolt under the door seal so I assume the front hinges open like the older ones?

Austin


Post# 1049752 , Reply# 17   11/3/2019 at 07:23 (1,579 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        
Miele WWI 320

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Post# 1049755 , Reply# 18   11/3/2019 at 08:18 (1,579 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
Logixx What a wonderful video

ozzie908's profile picture
I see they are built very similar to the older models its good to know they still have a quality about them. Thank you for showing us how it comes apart and that its easy enough to get at if a repair is needed.

Austin


Post# 1049793 , Reply# 19   11/3/2019 at 15:34 (1,579 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Thankyou Alex, I stand corrected :)


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