Thread Number: 89932  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Steel Outer Tubs?
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Post# 1145413   3/28/2022 at 19:29 (745 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)        

iiijohnnymaciii's profile picture
Do any other manufactures besides Miele and Speed Queen make steel outer tubs in their front load washing machines?




Post# 1145420 , Reply# 1   3/28/2022 at 21:45 (745 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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Not all Miele washers have metal outer tubs, good number are made from GlaronK.

www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/fo...

www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/help/176-...

www.krix-technik.de/glaronk-miel...


Post# 1145428 , Reply# 2   3/29/2022 at 02:32 (745 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        

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Swiss manufacturer Schulthess also uses stainless tubs. They make residential and commercial laundry equipment like Miele.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO Logixx's LINK


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Post# 1145432 , Reply# 3   3/29/2022 at 07:00 (745 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        

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Speed Queen uses SS for all their outer tubs on their FL washers.

 

I have thought several times lately that it would be interesting to compare the amount of plastic used in a SQ FL or TL washer for that matter compared to other manufactures.

 

Between SQ using real cast iron for their counterbalance weights and SS outer tub and an all steel base plate compared to many other companies plastic parts a very % of a SQ FL washer will be easily recyclable and the machine is also much less of a fire hazard in the home is something goes terribly wrong.

 

It would be interesting to require appliance makers to state the %s of metal to plastic etc in their new appliances.

 

John L.


Post# 1145436 , Reply# 4   3/29/2022 at 08:52 (745 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)        

iiijohnnymaciii's profile picture
Thanks Launderess. That's some good info on those 7 kg Miele machines. I see the US only has 4 models (all 8 kg). I was surprised to see all the models available in Europe (including 9 kg!).

After doing some more research, I'm very intrigued by the Asko Logic series and the European machines in general. Hot water that is actually hot at 140 degrees and extra hot water at 190 degrees!



Post# 1145457 , Reply# 5   3/29/2022 at 12:14 (745 days old) by rinso (Meridian Idaho)        

I've always wondered if steel outer tubs for front-loaders did a better job of pulling heat away from the tub bearings and seals, acting like a heat sink. I've had two front-loaders that both lost their bearings and seals in a few years of use, and had a plastic or fiberglass? outer tub.

Post# 1145462 , Reply# 6   3/29/2022 at 13:35 (745 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

Actually, that's a concern Miele had.
When they patented their GlaronK tubs the patent mentions the issue with heat in bearings.

GlaronK used to be specific to the TL range but since Miele got that management firm on board to improve numbers, they wanted to also target the mid segment market with an entry level machine.
These are a good 20kg lighter, smaller and can be regularly had for under 700€, in general at least 100€ under the lowest end 1xx machines with metal tubs.


Miele has technically several tub and drum combos.
They have a 7kg design with the GlaronK tubs on the current 0xx series.
Everything above that has a metal tub.
But there is a smaller metal tub/drum design (or at least there was) for some 7kg models. Some of the machines tested by our consumer magazine used these. They had the older style triangular lifter bars.

The 9kg and 8kg drum are the same size, both having the rounded lifter bars.

I don't think there was a GlaronK machine that had any steam function - so no Pre-ironing or PowerWash.



There is one weird household machine in that regard.

The TOL combo washer dryer has the cabinet of the new Little Giant machines.
Also, the combo machines have what appear to be the same drums as Little Giant machines.

The Little Giant machines are available in 3 drum and tub sizes, but all the same cabinet depth of over 70cm.


Post# 1145478 , Reply# 7   3/29/2022 at 16:44 (745 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Bearing temperature on front load washers

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I can’t imagine the temperature of the bearings has much to do with their life.

 

 I have felt the bearings on frontload washers they barely are warm to the touch after a heavy spin cycle.

 

The type of bearings used in a front load washer can be used in automotive engines etc. that easily run at 200 or more degrees and it’s still not much of a factor in their failure.

 

On front load washers with a plastic outer tub there is generally a huge cast-iron piece of metal that is cast into the plastic which would easily dissipate any heat buildup to begin with anyway.

 

John L


Post# 1145510 , Reply# 8   3/29/2022 at 21:21 (744 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
"Hot water that is actually hot at 140 degrees and extra hot water at 190 degrees!"

Keep in mind majority of washing machines sold in Europe today are cold fill only. Armed with powerful 208v-240v heaters these washers are more than capable of heating water to hot or boiling in short period of time. This even though some wash cycles run for ages...

That being said don't always believe such machines always reach and or hold target temps. Good number of both European consumer testing services and consumers themselves have posted often washers do not reach set temp, and or don't bother engaging thermostat once target temp has been reached, even if during course of long wash cycle things drop.

www.automaticwasher.org/c...


Post# 1145520 , Reply# 9   3/29/2022 at 22:11 (744 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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Miele seems to sell those 9K washers all over UK, Europe, Commonwealth countries and elsewhere, except North America.

www.realhomes.com/us/buyi...

www.currys.co.uk/products/miele-...

North Americans who want a Miele washer larger than 8kg, only have the Little Giant machines as next up.

www.designerappliances.co...


Post# 1145560 , Reply# 10   3/30/2022 at 13:06 (744 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
9kg

As said - tub and drum on the 8kg and 9kg models are 100% identical.
Biggest difference currently appears to be that the 9kg programming has a third load sensing step for PowerWash.
Maybe dampers and suspension are different, but I don't know.

The temp holding thing is complicated. Especially since US programming is entirely different again.



I can say for certain that the Mieles that allow for 194F will reach 194F.
Same with Asko.
Allergy cycles and options usually always reach set temp.

The Normal cycle on either will not reach the temp set.
With our testing regeem, we had a seperate Eco cycle equivalent to your Normal cycle. Those barely ever reached set temp and were what consumer representative groups always criticized.
New testing systems in place since last year changed that somewhat.


The EU Miele programming is quite uniform for temp holding.
If PowerWash isn't running and no wash options are set, the machine allots about 60min to heat and temp hold with reheating, then 30min of continued washing without reheating. For Cottons non-eco at least.
With 2kW of heating, a full load needs about 20-30min to get to 60C and about 45-60min to get to 90C.


Post# 1145567 , Reply# 11   3/30/2022 at 13:49 (744 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
On that note

If money isn't the issue, and you can find a place to source them, for the US, a little giant pair might be a way better for for your laundry needs.


The Little Giant washer has basically the same requirements electrically as an US vented dryer.
Wash times with hot water connected are 50min or less for a full load then.

The heat pump dryer from the Little Giant range will rival the vented ones and only needs 1.2kW connection.
In many cases, the work needed to get that available if a 2 phase connection for a dryer is already in place is minimal.
Since the previous washer is usually on its own circuit anyways, that outlet is removed and a second 240V outlet is added.
The panel is updated with a beefier breaker with the amperage basically taken from the now no longer needed washer circuit.

The total continuous amperage needed for both a Little Giant washer and the dryer is 27A just about. So 35A breaker rating if I am not mistaken.



That would give you boil wash capability.
Slightly larger capacity for both (just shy of 2.6cuft or 4.6cuft respectively).
Full flexibility in washing programming.
Actually really fast wash times.
Still very efficient.

Just pretty expensive.
Clocks in at about 8000€ over here.
But will run 30k cycles.


Post# 1145576 , Reply# 12   3/30/2022 at 18:17 (744 days old) by moon1234 (Wisconsin)        

Electrolux also has steel outer drums, but from what I can see that is mostly on the commerical side of things.




?t=160


Post# 1145592 , Reply# 13   3/31/2022 at 03:52 (743 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        

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I can't think of any real commercial machine that uses plastic tubs - excluding those semi-commercial Whirlpool Duets etc.

As for Electrolux, I'd say stainless tubs are exclusively use for their commercial line.


Post# 1145631 , Reply# 14   3/31/2022 at 23:38 (742 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia)        
New Miele WT 9/6

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Hi Henene4,
I have been wondering if the new Miele WT machines with the largest capacity have the LG drum of 73 litres? I see that the 8/5 kg machine's depth is 643 mm whereas the new 9/6 WT is 714 mm.
Miele is working on a 10 kg domestic version which will use the 73 litre LG drum.


Post# 1145643 , Reply# 15   4/1/2022 at 03:57 (742 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

I am not entirely sure, I'll have to check when I visit my old work place (had my last day of work as of yesterday) but I think each sizing for the WTs has to be thought one step down.

The 8/5 desing uses the metal 7kg drum/tub since you need a few cm depth for the condenser channel - so I think it uses the LiGi 57l drum in the normal depth household cabinet.
The 9/6 design would use one size up - 64l - in the LiGi cabinet.

At least I would think so.
But I'll have to look at the model on display here.


Post# 1145656 , Reply# 16   4/1/2022 at 14:07 (742 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Checked today

The store I worked at has the entry level model and the mid tier one on display.

Both had the same drum with the more triangular lifter bars and not the smooth rounded ones.
Both have the same outside dimensions as my machine but the slightly smaller drum (57l vs. 64l).


My main thought as to why those are touted as 8kg wash now is mainly to stay competitive with others and to hit new rating requirements.
Most combos have 8/5 ratings in the mid tier and in that depth rating.
And previously, Miele sold that drum as 7kg on both combos and normal washers.

If you go deeper (next up "standard" depth on combos is 66cm here) the usual rating is 9/6.
Miele is actually probably the biggest machine outside wise with over 70cm depth on the EU market.


Post# 1145658 , Reply# 17   4/1/2022 at 14:43 (742 days old) by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)        

iiijohnnymaciii's profile picture
Henne, do you know if the US 8 kg machines are metal ?

Post# 1145662 , Reply# 18   4/1/2022 at 16:55 (742 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

They are for sure.

Post# 1145664 , Reply# 19   4/1/2022 at 17:31 (742 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia)        

mielerod69's profile picture
Thanks for checking. I have a friend who has the old WT 8/5 with the 64 liter drum and the depth of the machine is 714 mm. If they left the same drum for 9/6, I think it’s too small to dry a 6kg load. The old 7/4 kg WT used the 59 litre drum. Bosch use a 70 litre drum for their 10/6 kg washer dryers

Post# 1145694 , Reply# 20   4/2/2022 at 05:00 (741 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

askolover's profile picture

I do believe Asko still uses stainless outer drums...last one I looked at did.


Post# 1146293 , Reply# 21   4/11/2022 at 14:43 (732 days old) by twintubdexter (Palm Springs)        
It was fake

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I remember a few years ago when I took the front off of my Maytag washer to replace the pump. I hadn't seen the insides of one of these machines since I was very young working at an appliance store while I was attending school. I thought to myself that everything looks about the same as it did way back then. The motor was a little smaller, the Polly pump was slightly different and it had that same warning sticker on the outer tub that said that the spinning power unit could smudge your lipstick. Everything looked pretty much the same except when I took a closer look at the outer tub. I noticed it was plastic. It was interesting that it was the same color as the old porcelain steel outer tubs used to be. I thought it was unusual that Maytag (pre-Whirlpool) would go to the trouble of using this color of plastic instead of the usual stuff that looks like giant Tupperwear.


Post# 1146381 , Reply# 22   4/12/2022 at 20:23 (730 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Plastic color

Usually, if you see white or off-white plastic, that is virgin plastic.

Recycled plastic isn't sorted much color wise - except for sometimes clear plastic that is seperated.

Clear plastic can be recycled to clear plastic.
Most colored plastic is recycled into recycling granules that are just what ever color comes out.
You'd have to bleach plastic to get the pigment out, and that usually changes material properties even worse.
The wild mix of colours results in darker and darker results - so you often just add pigment to a dark shade to hide any inconsistencies.

Some additives can change colour aswell - and if you already have recycled plastic, adding the pigment isn't much cost and gives at least some idea of consistency if a consumer should ever open the top.



So if parts are a muddled, grey, black, brown or a very dirty shade of off-white, it is usually recycled plastic.

But even the use of recycled plastic has come far since a decade ago, and since the tub is structural in many designs (carrys bearings) they used to use virgin plastic.
But today, in some machines, they use recycled plastic for the outer tub.


Post# 1146789 , Reply# 23   4/17/2022 at 15:16 (726 days old) by twintubdexter (Palm Springs)        
Looks like porcelain on steel, feels like plastic

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When I first took the front off of the machine I was fooled, but only for a few minutes.


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Post# 1146791 , Reply# 24   4/17/2022 at 16:03 (726 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Plastic Outer Tub In Norge-Tag Washers

combo52's profile picture

Maytag did this on purpose as they desperately tried to get Maytag dealers to accept these cheaper to build Norge washers as a good machine, strange if they were so good they did not make it in to the coin-op side of things.

 

These machines and about a dozen other things Maytag management ruined a highly successful and profitable company in just over 15 years.

 

John L.


Post# 1146874 , Reply# 25   4/18/2022 at 12:55 (725 days old) by twintubdexter (Palm Springs)        

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That plastic outer tub Maytag/Norge/whatever is still working fine after 20 years. The only thing I have done is replaced the pig-stuck-in-a-fence squealing pump and the belt. And yes, the two new Speed Queens I bought two years ago are still in my garage covered up with a blanket. I'm beginning to think it is doubtful they will ever make the 12 foot trip into the laundry room. The Speed Queens aren't the only things I have purchased new but have never used like big screen TV's and audio equipment. The older I get the less energy I have and the more money I waste. Lily Tomlin, in one of her  comedy skits as an"impulse shopper", would say " I would buy fresh bread and day-old bread the same day I was just not using good sense". That's me.


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