Thread Number: 90686  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
small question what would be the chances that maytag would seperate from whirlpool?
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Post# 1151893   6/21/2022 at 09:04 by Pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

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what would be the chance of maytag appliance becoming a seperate companie still own by whirlpool if you look at this link its the case for general electric just asking because i wonder if it would mean a return for genuine maytag appliances? www.cnn.com/2021/11/09/in...

Post# 1151919 , Reply# 1   6/21/2022 at 13:54 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        

I think there's about as much chance of Maytag becoming a separate high quality manufacturer as there is of GE buying their appliance manufacturing back from the Chinese Haier company and making high quality US washers and dryers on their own.

Though I may be confused as to how Maytag would still be a separate company but still owned by Whirlpool.

It would be nice if Whirlpool/Maytag was to have a high-quality line, but they would have a hard time getting back my trust after the experience I've had with their garbage-quality products and their worse than worthless "customer service". Whirlpool has not only destroyed their own name, but the name of every competitor they have bought up.

Even the Maytag "Commercial" (MVWP575), which I saw as the last hope for the Whirlpool Corportation, isn't anywhere near up to the standard of an old Maytag, and it's supposedly built on its own assembly line.

I think the days of low-priced quality products are over.





Post# 1152013 , Reply# 2   6/22/2022 at 10:25 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
shame

It's a shame that Whirlpool ruined Maytag. If there was any solace, it's that they've made direct drives even under the Maytag name for a short time.

Post# 1152016 , Reply# 3   6/22/2022 at 11:54 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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Maytag was already headed to an end before Whirlpool got involved, else the company/brand wouldn't have been sold.


Post# 1152074 , Reply# 4   6/22/2022 at 23:56 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
whirlpool/maytag

Thank you for the correction. Maytag should be grateful Whirlpool bought them.

Post# 1152086 , Reply# 5   6/23/2022 at 02:47 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        

Maytag should be thankful that their name was destroyed?

I think it would have been better to die an honorable death, just go out of business rather than sell your name to a company that is just going to abuse it for profit. But maybe Maytag trusted Whirlpool to uphold the values the name Maytag represented, and Whirlpool sold them out the way they sold out their customers and themselves.


Post# 1152103 , Reply# 6   6/23/2022 at 05:53 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        

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   [ But Maybe Maytag trusted Whirlpool to uphold the values the name Maytag represented ]

 

Sorry Jeff but this line gave me my morning laugh. 

 

Maytag was in great financial condition in the early 80s with pretty good product that customers were winning up to buy [ Like Speed Queen today ] and Maytags right wing anti labor management decided rather than invest in their factories, workers and badly needed improved products they decided to sell out the Union workers and buy several junk brands that were just going to go out of business on their own.

 

Norge 

Magic Chief 

Hardwick

Admiral

Hoover

 

The only brand that they bought later that was a good fit was Amana, but they bought it after Goodman had had it for a few years and already gutted it of some of its assets.

 

Maytag was going to take on Whirlpool, GE and Frigidaire and become a major player Jack Welsh style.

 

It worked for a while till customers started realizing what over priced junk MT was selling and the problems started piling up, the rest is history.

 

Unfortunately Whirlpool suffered as well by paying way to much for what was really only a name when WP should have been investing in improvements in it existing products and customers instead in order to take on the coming Asian appliance junk.

 

John L.


Post# 1152104 , Reply# 7   6/23/2022 at 05:56 by Chetlaham (United States)        
Maytag's Demise

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As sad as it is to say it, Maytag destroyed their name prior to the Whirlpool buyout.

First they did it through their Atlantis, Amana, Crosley, Magic Chef and Performa washers. These washers had an astronomical premature failure rate. So much so I remember in the late 90s/early 2000s people would always bring up Maytag as the dreaded brand to avoid with personal antidotes about how their 3 year old Performa washer caused their home to fill with stinky smoke from a burned up pulley. I tried educating people that there were "fake" vs "genuine" Maytags but they seemed less interested in differentiating between the two and more about how much repair grief a Maytag appliance had given them.


Even their high end products like the Maytag Valet were dominated the cheesey Crosley design down to the lint filter.

Their other budget appliances also didn't help much due to their mediocre performance while being so close in appearance/relation to their genuine products ie the JetClean system.

In short consumers began deriving the equation Maytag = disappointments

Second blunder was the front load Neptune. Between the wide scale motor control failures and the mold issues Maytag's reputation had completely evaporated through word of mouth.


As I understand it Maytag wanted a larger share of the market by offering larger capacity washers and dryers relative to their Newton design at a lower price but the idea was so poorly executed it back fired.

There is also the conspiracy that a former executive who worked for Whirlpool brought the company down so Whirlpool could one day gobble up the market share.

What ever the case, by the late 90s the Maytag name was only trusted by those who had a 30 year old Newton chugging along.



Post# 1152166 , Reply# 8   6/23/2022 at 13:02 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        

Thanks john,

Now I see how the left wing pro labor Whirlpool management really saved the Maytag brand.


Post# 1152167 , Reply# 9   6/23/2022 at 13:15 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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The folks who believe they can be more successful at designing, manufacturing, and marketing appliances than the various companies who are doing so should a) buy-up one of the existing brands and fix it or b) start-up a new brand, go through the process and report the detailed results.


Post# 1152215 , Reply# 10   6/23/2022 at 20:53 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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Whirlpool is not going to sell or otherwise spin off Maytag, nor any of the other brands it also acquired as part of deal that were part of same such as Norge, Amana, Admiral, JennAir, etc..

Frederick Maytag and Elmer Henry Maytag along with other members of that family must be spinning in their graves over fate of Maytag. However in the end Maytag had no one to blame but themselves for sad state of affairs.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maytag...


Post# 1152225 , Reply# 11   6/23/2022 at 21:48 by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        
Pierre

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You make it sound like the two (companies) are mutual co-habitants in a rough relationship. That's not how it works.

Whirlpool bought Maytag, and numerous other companies that have been mentioned above, and they can do what they want with the name, the patents, the models, and the assets that were included in the sale.

They could have simply shut down the brand and scrapped the whole division in part or whole.


Post# 1152226 , Reply# 12   6/23/2022 at 22:09 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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Could see Maytag turning Jenn-Air into a higher tier brand, sort of like what WP did with KitchenAid, but that's all water under a bridge now.

By 1980's onwards Maytag's management simply make one huge mistake after another, but never would learn. Hoover was supposed to be Maytag's big break into UK/Europe. Instead after the famous (or infamous) holiday package scandal Hoover's name (and value) was rubbish.

Neptune washer and dryer line should have put Maytag back on the map. But again they never would be told and simply doubled down on bad bets. By time they finally changed things around to where Neptune front loaders were where they should have been, that name along with Maytag was one of execration.

If Maytag was shopping around for something to buy back in 1980's it should have been one of the European appliance makers with solid technology in producing h-axis washing machines.


Post# 1152236 , Reply# 13   6/23/2022 at 23:49 by robbinsandmyers (Conn)        

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I think we would see brand new DeSotos after all these years before that happened to Maytag LOL

Post# 1152241 , Reply# 14   6/24/2022 at 00:13 by Chetlaham (United States)        
Ideally

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Agree, and more than anything Maytag should never have put another a top loader or dryer other than their Newton design. They perfected the design, and thats all they needed. Advertising would have done the rest. With things like spray rinses it could have survived into today. Lower sales yes, however it would have kept their reputation going. And perhaps with things like Lid lock more people would have switched over to Maytag as they have with Speed Queen.


FWIW, I view the Newton design as the greatest top load washer ever made in the history of man, by far.


Sometimes the wheel does not have to be re-invented in order to live on.


Post# 1152249 , Reply# 15   6/24/2022 at 02:10 by robbinsandmyers (Conn)        
Greatest top load washer ever made

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The simplicity is brilliant. Spin the motor one way the tub locks and it washes, reverse it, and the tub and all spin while the pump goes from sucking air to pumping the water out. So good they kept it many decades with few changes and built up a reliability rating second to none in washers for decades as well. The people that invented that setup deserve statues in bronze in Newton.

Post# 1152251 , Reply# 16   6/24/2022 at 03:18 by Chetlaham (United States)        
Bronze Statue

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Absolutely!


Each day the Newton design proves its self by another factor with 30 year machines moving onto 40 after two belts being changed out.


Had Maytag put fins on the agitators they would have sold 20 times the number rivaling Whirlpool in the process.


The Newton design is one that should definitely be brought back.


Post# 1152297 , Reply# 17   6/24/2022 at 11:23 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
whirlpool direct drive

Don't forget about the whirlpool direct drive. They did the same thing as the newton ones as described, but with a coupler and neutral drain. The Clyde engineers should get a gold statue.

Post# 1152298 , Reply# 18   6/24/2022 at 11:29 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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Majority of people don't understand how direct-drive works.  It has major differences compared to Newton Maytags.


Post# 1152367 , Reply# 19   6/24/2022 at 22:00 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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Let's go to the video tape...

Maytag transmission...









Maytag "Newton style" transmission..





www.automaticwasher.org/c...

Direct drive transmission...






Post# 1152374 , Reply# 20   6/24/2022 at 23:44 by robbinsandmyers (Conn)        
Pitman trans Maytags.......

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Are like GE Monitor Tops. The fact so many are still in daily use after many decades is proof of their genius in design. They werent kidding back then with their slogan " The Dependability People ". The automotive equivalent would be the Mercedes 240D or Volvo 240.

Post# 1152382 , Reply# 21   6/25/2022 at 02:45 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
What was wrong with later Maytag transmissions?

launderess's profile picture
Or maybe I shouldn't ask...






Post# 1152410 , Reply# 22   6/25/2022 at 11:25 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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The Whirlpool transmission repair video above is only the neutral drain kit, and spin clutch which is external to the transmission.  All the other parts in the transmission were not discussed and/or removed.

This video covers more of it but still not quite everything.

6:00 the neutral drain plate is correctly called the rack retainer.  The screw anchors it to the main drive gear so the rack retainer rotates with the main drive gear whenever the motor runs.  The rack retainer is also present in spin-drain versions of the transmission, on which there is a spin pawl but not the other two neutral drain components, and the underside of the spin gear has a spring that fits on the hub instead of the toothed cam.

6:12 the spin gear pinion is driven by the larger plastic spin gear.  The notched top of it protrudes through the transmission cover (an oil seal is there) and the clutch drum mounts to it.  The spin gear is held stationary during agitation and neutral drain so the spin gear pinion and clutch drum accordingly also do not rotate.

6:22 is the connecting rack and is what makes the agitator shaft oscillate.

6:44 is the shift actuator and is what shifts the agitator gear cam to engage or disengage agitation according to which direction the motor is running.

6:51 is the main drive gear, which meshes to the input worm pinion/gear beneath it.

7:00 notice that the agitator gear cam parts are plastic.

7:06 the disc and ball comprise a thrust bearing for the agitator shaft.

7:25 the input worm pinion/gear (to which the motor coupler mounts) is not removable unless the oil seal on front exterior is removed.

9:49 the first neutral drain piece is the trip lever which is involved in resetting the mechanism during agitation for neutral drain that then follows.

10:11 the second piece placed on the rack retainer is the spin pawl which is what drives the spin gear.

10:16 the third longer metal piece is the latch which holds the spin gear cam from rotating during neutral drain, which in turn holds the spin pawl from driving the spin gear.

The spin gear cam is shown at 6:03 in Eugene's video above, on the underside of the spin gear.  The flat end of the spin pawl mates to any of the three protrusions (bosses) on the underside perimeter of the spin gear to drive it.  One of the three bosses (the one at the bottom by his thumb) has a little button molded into it which bumps the trip lever and is involved in the neutral drain reset process during agitation (10 bumps does the reset).







Post# 1152425 , Reply# 23   6/25/2022 at 15:22 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
maytag centennial

So what makes the centennial direct drive better than the whirlpool direct drive?

Post# 1152434 , Reply# 24   6/25/2022 at 17:03 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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Nothing, unless perhaps the Centennial model of question has a stainless steel basket.


Post# 1152499 , Reply# 25   6/26/2022 at 01:34 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
100 degree arc agitation claim

So how did Maytag centennial get that 100 degree agitation arc claim when it's just another whirlpool?

Post# 1152519 , Reply# 26   6/26/2022 at 10:08 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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Jerome, direct-drive agitation stroke is 100 degrees.  That has been discussed in the past.

I quoted this to you in a discussion in August 2021 and am citing it again now directly (including a typo) from the L-46 Design 2000 Direct Drive Washer training manual dated 1981:

Agitate Speed:
  177-181 Strokes Per Minutes High Speed
  118-122 Strokes Per Minute Low Speed (2 Speed Machines)
  100° [degree symbol] Arc


All direct-drive transmissions are the same gearing and produce the same speeds and stroke arc regardless of what brand washer is involved.

High agitation is typically stated as 180 strokes per minute.

Low is typically stated as 120 strokes per minute.

There wasn't an extra-low speed in 1981, it came in later.  Extra-low is 88 to 92 strokes per minute and is typically stated as 90 strokes per minute.


Post# 1152529 , Reply# 27   6/26/2022 at 13:15 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
maytag centennial

It's amazing to me that the "maytag centennial" label would be slapped on a whirlpool direct drive,when they could've eliminated the name altogether. To me, the 100 degree agitation arc sounds a bit much for that design. I don't know how whirlpool did that.
Why couldn't they just use 100 strokes per minute at high instead of 180 strokes per minute. Somebody told me that the agitation was a 90 degree arc.


Post# 1152532 , Reply# 28   6/26/2022 at 14:04 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
Centennial is of course reference to the 100th anniversary of Maytag washers, which I believe happened in 2007 after Whirlpool bought Maytag in 2006, so they reasonably and legitimately used the term for marketing purposes.

You'd have to ask the engineering team that developed the direct-drive transmission for the details on their design decisions.  They surely did testing on the performance at a range of parameters to settle on the end result.

Now you know that whoever it was that told you the stroke arc is 90 degrees was wrong about that.  It's a whole 10 degrees more.


Post# 1152545 , Reply# 29   6/26/2022 at 18:37 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
Whirlpool/Maytag

It seems to me when Maytag claimed to have an upgraded transmission and stainless steel drum, they were using the Whirlpool direct drive with the Maytag name on it. I guess I can correct whoever told me it was 90 degrees. I think the Centennials used whirlpool oil when they claim to use synthetic transmission oil.

Post# 1152553 , Reply# 30   6/26/2022 at 20:07 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
maytag with whirlpool cycle characteristics

At least the Maytag Centennial maintained the cycle characteristics.

Post# 1154071 , Reply# 31   7/12/2022 at 01:30 by Sgt10 (California )        
No going back

You cannot reconstruct Maytag as it was dismantled (with the name kept to deploy as needed). The factory and management no longer exist in Newton Iowa and the town was crushed post Whirlpool acquisition. What remains of the factory building was put to use in making wind turbines, but I don’t think this was a success. A more or less familiar tale of the fate of manufacturing in the Midwest. Very sad to see the demise of the town and the effect on employees.

Post# 1154077 , Reply# 32   7/12/2022 at 04:36 by qsd-dan (West)        

qsd-dan's profile picture
I chatted up with a guy whose grandparents worked at the Maytag factory in Newton up until it closed. He said after Whirlpool bought Maytag, they refused to honor the retirement plans as promised for the Maytag employees and everybody got screwed. Needless to say, the town isn't found of Whirlpool.

Post# 1154079 , Reply# 33   7/12/2022 at 06:12 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
maytag

It's obvious that whirlpool plans to keep maytag now that they've been gobbled up.

Post# 1154081 , Reply# 34   7/12/2022 at 07:20 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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By most standards Whirlpool's merger/purchase of Maytag has been a success. Yes, there was pain that was spread around, but there would have been more had Maytag simply gone bankrupt, or was purchased by anyone else including Haier.

www.reuters.com/article/u...

www.deseret.com/2006/5/11/199527...

money.cnn.com/2006/03/29/news/co...


Romancing about Maytag's great past is all very well, but leave us not forget what brought that company so low a merger with arch rival became necessary. Quite frankly Maytag was going down the toilet due to many bad (ok, horrible) decisions by management plus changing nature of market.


Ralph Hake, former CEO of Maytag walked away with at least $12 million in payments. Maytag employees and retirees however things were a mixed bag.




Post# 1154111 , Reply# 35   7/12/2022 at 12:54 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
maytag/whirlpool

Maytag's neptunes, Atlantis, and the Performa designs were the ones that caused the company to go downhill, eventually leading to the whirlpool designed maytags.

Post# 1154114 , Reply# 36   7/12/2022 at 13:33 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
The original Neptune frontloader had some problems that they corrected through changes as production went along.  The resultant products were reasonably good.

The larger-capacity Neptunes (MAH6700, MAH8700, MAH9700, etc.) of course were sourced from Samsung.

The Neptune TL, interesting though it may be, ended as a quick failure.

Atlantis and Performa (Norge-tags and Amana-tags, although very similar) were not Maytag designs, but were what they had to offer for larger-capacity toploaders to compete with oher brands.

Of course Whirlpool dropped those designs.  What is the reasonable need to maintain many other platforms when the LEAP direct-drive had proven successful for 25 years?


Post# 1154128 , Reply# 37   7/12/2022 at 15:44 by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        

maytag85's profile picture
Unfortunately it’s the damned Neptune machines along with those NorgeTag machines that ruined Maytag’s reputation. Maytag should have NEVER bothered with EITHER off those machines/designs along with buying Norge, Magic Chef, Hardwick, Admiral, and Hoover since those companies ruined their own reputation as well. Hoover basically was high and mighty for many years then started cutting corners which eventually led to their demise, Hoover sold tons of vacuums over the years but don’t see many out in the wild anymore unless it’s a collector or someone who appreciates vintage stuff. Kirby was like Maytag, they didn’t sell as many machines as their competitors in their day but you still see tons of older Kirby’s out there along with Maytag’s since that’s how over-built they were.

Post# 1154133 , Reply# 38   7/12/2022 at 16:54 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
HE craze

And you can thank the HE craze for this as well. All of this caused a giant mess of problems. When these new front load washers of any brand including maytag wash, it looks like there's no water in it at all.

Post# 1154143 , Reply# 39   7/12/2022 at 19:13 by panasonicvac (Northern Utah)        

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I loved Maytag's Neptune machines, at least their front loaders. We had a Neptune set before and it was fantastic! I wished we still had them, but my grandfather still has his Neptune stacked set up at his cabin. It's just as good as the set that we used to have. If the set breaks before my grandfather goes, I would try and convince him to have it fixed. If I would've known better, I wished I would've convinced my grandfather to have someone fix his old Maytag top load washer from 1982 at his house instead of buying this that he now uses. I never liked it honestly, I'd take his Neptune or his old top loader anyday. Or I'd replace it with something else like a Speed Queen. But I definitely don't have anything against the dryer, I think it's good honestly and I'd also try to convince him to fix it as well if it ever does break. On a side note, I even loved the Hoovers that were made by Maytag like the Windtunnels. I didn't liked how shortly after TTI (Techtronic Industries) acquired Hoover from Whirlpool was they've cheapened the original Windtunnels like the motors.

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 5         View Full Size
Post# 1154153 , Reply# 40   7/12/2022 at 21:20 by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        

maytag85's profile picture
Some people like the Neptune washers that Maytag made but for me they represent the beginning of the end of Maytag as well as the final nail in the coffin before Whirlpool bought Maytag in 2006. I don’t really consider HE machines a collector’s item in my book since they unfortunately paved the way to today’s crappy washers and dryers.

Post# 1154156 , Reply# 41   7/12/2022 at 21:51 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Lads!

Maytag was in trouble, deep trouble and there wasn't any real way for them to right that ship without huge investments in capital. This along with perhaps more innovative and far thinking management that could turn things around.

www.twice.com/product/may...

Since about 1960's or 1970's there long had already been a slow consolidation of American white goods manufacturing market. Just look at how many brands were owned by Maytag, Whirlpool and WCI alone.


General Electric was then one of the only other major appliance makers still running under their own banner, and look what happened to GE Appliances eventually.

Against everything else going on was rise of Asian imports (Samsung, LG, etc...) who were bringing innovative washers and dryers to USA market.

Maytag needed to either go big or go home. Perhaps they may have survived as strictly a major player in laundry market like Alliance Systems is trying to do; but that would have meant stepping up their game on commercial side of things as well. Carnage on that end of things has been nearly or just as bad as residential with many brands of industrial/commercial laundry appliances going out of business or acquired by someone else.

Again challenge thought that Neptune washers were not necessary for Maytag. That was the one shining point in innovation which should have turned Maytag's fortunes around. If they didn't do it then (and was first out of gate), Maytag would have had to play catch up after Whirlpool brought out their Duet line, and of course now there are offerings by LG, Samsung, Speed Queen, Electrolux, and others.

Great and well loved as they were days of traditional Maytag top loader were numbered. New and ever increasing energy restrictions coming out of Washington, D.C. require changes in design for top loaders that Maytag either wouldn't or couldn't make. Meanwhile under Whirlpool those changes were made, but less said about Maytag top loaders today the better.

Depending upon who one wishes to believe Maytag's costs were too high in good part to generous employee benefits, inefficient manufacturing plants and few other bits.

Whirlpool managed to weather loss of being dominate supplier of all sorts of appliances to Sears. Maytag OTOH took a hit splitting with Best Buy.

www.marketwatch.com/story...

Fisher & Paykel had a relationship with Maytag going back to 1930's. If Maytag was in any position to buy anyone it should have been F&P if for nothing to get at their patents and R&D. FP produced top loaders that were energy efficient and had pretty good capacity.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher_%26...






Post# 1154157 , Reply# 42   7/12/2022 at 22:59 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
whirlpool/maytag powerful direct drive

I miss the whirlpool (later Maytag Centennial) direct drive machines. They were very powerful machines with very strong agitation and pumps which could clean the filthiest construction clothes due to the rapid agitation at 100°. At least Whirlpool engineers knew what they were doing. If I was a load of laundry, I'd jump in the whirlpool/maytag centennial direct drive in a heartbeat.


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