Thread Number: 92898  /  Tag: Vintage Dishwashers
57/58 frigidaire DW-DUZ repairs
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Post# 1174674   3/14/2023 at 00:04 (269 days old) by Delco1946 (Oregon)        

Original thread was too old to pick up I guess so starting a new oneÖ

Iíve reassembled the motor and drain line and put new cork gaskets on. I think Iím ready to hook up the garden hose and temporarily wire it to see what happens. Some questions tho-

The heating element is crusted in white scale. Is there a way to clean this?

The door start switch doesnít move or depress. The manual suggests that it should physically depress I think, anyone experience what itís supposed to do? Iím afraid to pull or push too hard. Iíd also be curious if anyone has taken one apart, can they be rebuilt?

What sort of detergents does one use in these since the wash is so short? Modern Enzyme detergents wonít be very effective, right?

The door gasket is crusty and damaged and WILL leak. Where do I find a replacement? TIA


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Post# 1174686 , Reply# 1   3/14/2023 at 06:37 (268 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
1958 Frigidaire spin tube dishwasher

combo52's profile picture
Hi Christopher, looks like a fun project probably the easiest way to remove the minerals from the heating element is sandpaper, itís so baked on that most chemical cleaners probably wonít do much to remove it, it also wonít hurt anything if you want to leave it.

The door gasket may or may not leak thereís really not much water directed forward in this dishwasher toward the door

Need a picture of the door switch this uses in most cases the door switch like that usually Hass to be replaced but you can try spraying some silicone lubricant into it and see if it works afterwards

Keep us posted as to how well this works out.

John.


Post# 1174702 , Reply# 2   3/14/2023 at 09:17 (268 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

This is the original post on it?

Frigidaire Dishwasher


Post# 1174705 , Reply# 3   3/14/2023 at 10:16 (268 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Is the door switch stuck in on position? If so at least you can still test the dishwasher. That door switch should be simple to find simply google "120 volt microswitch". I found one on Amazon but it is a bit expensive... amzn.to/3ldzGpP...

For the door gasket simply go to Ace Hardware or Home Depot and get a strip of closed cell foam self-sticking weather-stripping that you place right on top of the old gasket.


Post# 1174725 , Reply# 4   3/14/2023 at 14:19 (268 days old) by delco1946 (Oregon)        

DaDoes - You found the old thread, yes (thanks!).

Since the start button is stuck I have no idea if its in the on position, off position etc. It just "is" haha. I guess i'll find out when i connect it. I'll try to fix it as I'm a sucker for stock and it should light up which is nifty.

Sandpaper is a great idea! once I get most off would something like CLR work?

The water marks suggest that it leaked a lot out of the door as there is a lot of gross white crusty junk in the door springs that i still need to clean.


Post# 1174726 , Reply# 5   3/14/2023 at 14:21 (268 days old) by Delco1946 (Oregon)        



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Post# 1174767 , Reply# 6   3/14/2023 at 23:41 (268 days old) by Delco1946 (Oregon)        

Fixed the switch or at least got it moving. Everything is wired up and ready to hook up water and test it! Still need to clean it tho - pretty dirty and rust spots. Even the chrome has pitting. If it works well it might be worth fixing all thatÖ..later haha

Post# 1174782 , Reply# 7   3/15/2023 at 08:17 (267 days old) by Delco1946 (Oregon)        

Well I plugged it in without hooking up water. The start switch might be internally stuck in the on position as I donít need to touch it for things to come alive. The drain flapper activates (good) when it should be circulating water eg on wash cycle ( once again without touching the start - I just simply lock the door). It was noticably warmer on preheat setting while I was still fiddling with things so the element seems to work. However Iím not seeing the impeller move at all - which I would assume it should even when empty (?).

It motor does seem the buzz but as mentioned the impeller hasnít rotated when I peek back inside. I wonder if it doesnt spin unless filled with water(?) but I doubt it - guessing my motor might simply be bad.

Open to suggestions as to how to proceed. Thanks.


Post# 1174785 , Reply# 8   3/15/2023 at 08:37 (267 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
More than likely the pump impeller is probably just stuck preventing the motor from turning. The pump may need some very hot water poured through it and then you may be able to loosen it so it turns. Careful though as I believe that impeller is made of Bakelite so it could break if you use a sharp instrument to try and get it to turn.

Post# 1174787 , Reply# 9   3/15/2023 at 08:46 (267 days old) by Delco1946 (Oregon)        

Iíve already removed the motor, put a new gasket in it, removed rust and painted it etc. the impeller rotates freely by hand. Iím looking at the schematic now and it does look like the drain solenoid engages regardless of the start switch being activated so maybe I just need to play with it more.

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Post# 1174857 , Reply# 10   3/15/2023 at 21:02 (267 days old) by Delco1946 (Oregon)        

Well Iím bummed. Iíve looked thru the schematic and checked the various parts. Iím used to antique radios which have a lot of resistors and resistance.

This dw seems pretty simple ( and yet I still canít fix it haha). The drain solenoid works and only has around 5 ohms resistance. Generally resistance thru the motor and most parts is low but not zero. What should the resistance of the motor be - any thoughts? Also, my dw has a part that I donít see on this schematic - some sort of switch that I think measures the water pressure to trigger the fill solenoid to cut out.

Either way I hear a loud buzzing so I think the motor is trying to activate. I will mention that there was a lot of rust on the outer motor housing from a leaking motor gasket so maybe the motor is rustedÖ..? But the impeller moves freelyÖ..so what do I do with this paperweight 😅


Post# 1174899 , Reply# 11   3/16/2023 at 11:13 (266 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Sounds like then the internal start centrifugal switch of the motor is stuck and needs some cleaning and lubrication which means you will need to take the motor apart and investigate. I suspect the start switch is near the top of the motor which means you will need to carefully remove the impeller which is probably stuck on the shaft. You can test the motor by taking the two wires off the connections and place a test electrical cord onto the two wires and plug the cord in to see if the motor turns or not.

Post# 1178476 , Reply# 12   4/18/2023 at 22:08 (233 days old) by Delco1946 (Oregon)        

Anyone aware of any resources or videos to take a similar type of motor apart by chance? Not sure what Iím doing or looking for ( going in blind!).

Post# 1178480 , Reply# 13   4/18/2023 at 23:36 (233 days old) by Delco1946 (Oregon)        

Took the motor bottom off. I could use guidance - what next/ what am I looking at?

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Post# 1178483 , Reply# 14   4/18/2023 at 23:57 (233 days old) by Delco1946 (Oregon)        

May have found the issue. When I check resistance from the case to the black wire in the foreground I get infinite ( I would expect this). When I check resistance between the red and black in the foreground connected when the black spring gizmo is depressed I get a solid connection / 0 ohms. However when I connect the case to either the red or black in the background or to the red in the foreground then I also get a connection/ 0 ohms which shouldnít be I assume. Perhaps the windings have shorted/ melted? Not sure if this is fixable or if replacements exist. Also worried now that if the motor was shorting to the ground, did I damage the timer or electronics?

Post# 1178496 , Reply# 15   4/19/2023 at 07:08 (232 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Likely shorted, grounded motor windings

combo52's profile picture
From your pictures and your testing it looks like you have some grounded shorted motor windings to start windings look particularly bad.

If you can find another motor or get a motor shop to rewind it, it might be fixable.

This would not have damaged the timer and thereís no electronics of course to damage in this dishwasher lol.

John.


Post# 1178501 , Reply# 16   4/19/2023 at 08:06 (232 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
It could be the motor's centrifugal start switch contacts are dirty and just need to be cleaned, these pictures are from a Frigidaire Unimatic washer, but the procedure is similar...




Post# 1178626 , Reply# 17   4/20/2023 at 17:31 (231 days old) by delco1946 (Oregon)        

I'm getting conductance thru the switch when activated, so I dont think thats the issue. Rather im suspect of the wound wires having only 2-3 ohms resistance to the motor casing. Can anyone recommend who might re-wire this? I'm in the Portland Oregon area. Without a re-wire i have a very large paper weight....:(

Post# 1178631 , Reply# 18   4/20/2023 at 18:02 (231 days old) by pdub (Portland, Oregon)        
Advance Electric

pdub's profile picture
I have used this place about 10 years ago and they did a great job and also had a lot of vintage motor parts on hand.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO pdub's LINK


Post# 1178642 , Reply# 19   4/20/2023 at 18:34 (231 days old) by delco1946 (Oregon)        

Awesome, thank you!!!!! I will contact them :)

Post# 1179125 , Reply# 20   4/26/2023 at 12:18 (225 days old) by delco1946 (Oregon)        

Patrick/Pdub - thanks for the suggestion. I called them and they looked at the motor. It needs to be re-wound which would cost $450. Thats seems reasonable considering the time he'd have to put into it.

Before committing to this, as its moderately crazy, I thought id ask if folks have parts or places to contact regarding replacement motors that i could simply swap out? I can't imagine anyone is sitting on a NOS motor or has a late 50s Frigidaire dishwasher laying around to part out....but figured it can't hurt to ask.


Post# 1179265 , Reply# 21   4/27/2023 at 21:42 (224 days old) by pdub (Portland, Oregon)        

pdub's profile picture
$450 to rewind the motor seems steep, but that's just me.

I'm sure these motors aren't just sitting on shelves anymore but it may pay to look around just in case.

Maybe give these people a call without mentioning your first price quote and ask what they would charge for repair. I also checked with Conrey once and they were very helpful. It's always good to get more than one quote!



CLICK HERE TO GO TO pdub's LINK


Post# 1186860 , Reply# 22   8/4/2023 at 22:56 by Delco1946 (Oregon)        
Iím crazy cuz I had the motor rewoundÖ..

Never did find a replacement motor so I went with Patrickís recommendation. They took a couple months but considering the price I was in no hurry 🤪. He might have charged me the ďI donít want to do this priceĒ, but I will say he did a very nice job, was very nice, and I get he needs to charge real prices to stay in business. I just mounted the motor and did a dry run - she came to life! Now that the the motor wasnít shorting everything, The switch light came on, and after testing no current was passing thru to the cabinet I cycled thru the cycles and I could see and hear the drain valve opening/ closing. After turning the knob back to off I opened it up and the element had been heating too!

There are some minor repairs such as rust, gaskets etc but Iím pleased at the moment. I think the next test will be to hook it up to water. I am worried the motor shaft gasket will leak but Iíll cross that bridge soon. If I can get it fully operational then Iíll start to focus on the cosmetic stuff.


Post# 1186889 , Reply# 23   8/5/2023 at 09:13 by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
That's great news Christopher. I want to take a Frigidaire Unimatic washer motor in to have rewound and I too am expecting the price of a rewind to be much higher than when I had an Apex dishwasher motor rewound about 15 years ago.

Hopefully your shaft seal is good, there should be a generic number on that seal.


Post# 1186900 , Reply# 24   8/5/2023 at 13:43 by valvashon (Seattle, U.S.A.)        

I worked at a television station in various roles over the years including Master Control, operating the satellite truck and equipment maintenance. Toward the end I was put in charge of building maintenance. I had many HVAC fan motors go bad and decided to have them rebuilt as they were real unicorns due to the voltage and mounting brackets. Most places won't touch a fractional horsepower motor (such as these or the one in a dishwasher) but I found a place in California, Eurton Electric. What you were charged was right in line with what we were charged for the HVAC motors, so don't feel like you overpaid. Just my 2 cents worth.

Post# 1186901 , Reply# 25   8/5/2023 at 14:08 by Delco1946 (Oregon)        

Thatís good to know, thank you Valvadhon. Makes me feel better :)

So I boiled water and poured that into the motor based on past reads that it can help to soften up the old gasket under the impeller. It definitely helped, I canít tell if itís leaking (from there at least ) anymore so that is drastic improvement. It was very evident for the first 60 seconds that it was leaking.

Next problem - it leaked elsewhere at gaskets and bolt threads. I might use the yellow pipe dope which doesnít seem to harden and has worked great on thread drinking water pipe. Iím all ears if others have a non silicone / ruins it forever suggestions!

I also realized I forget to tighten a motor- carrying bolt! Silly me. Well I tightened it and it just snapped. Iíll extract it on another day as I am not in the mood. However I need to replace that specially bolt. Iíd ideally replace all three since theyíre rusty but Iím guessing theyíre rare/ not made anymore. SoooÖ. Anyone have an extra they could spare/ sell? Thx - Christopher


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Post# 1186905 , Reply# 26   8/5/2023 at 14:42 by Delco1946 (Oregon)        

Edit to last post - shaft seal is leaking. Iím just going to take it back to the motor shop as they mentioned that they might have some better equipment to remove the impeller with. What kind of gasket should go in? Would they have that or do I need to procure that in advance because itís unusual?

Post# 1186923 , Reply# 27   8/5/2023 at 18:02 by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
When you say the shaft seal is leaking, how do you know it is the shaft seal? Is water dripping out from the bottom of the motor or down the sides of the motor?

These Frigidaire dishwashers use an impeller that is threaded onto the motor shaft, but according to the manual it is a left-hand thread which means turns clockwise to remove.

The shaft seal is shown here with a red box around it...


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Post# 1186943 , Reply# 28   8/5/2023 at 20:38 by Delco1946 (Oregon)        

Water did appear initially at the bottom of the motor, however thatís mostly stopped from what I can tell. I noticed that the actual drain tube had rust/ salts in the bottom half indicating that itís drained a lot of leaking water in the past. I cleaned out the drain hole with a small bristle brush and dislodged/ cleaned out some crud. It now flows freely when I put water in the impeller hole and out thru the drain hole. Happy that itís now exiting thru the correct hole but it does mean the seal is shot! ( or something else is going on!)

Post# 1187170 , Reply# 29   8/8/2023 at 23:24 by Delco1946 (Oregon)        

Bumping this. I still the a source for at least one ďflange screw and studĒ to hang the motor. One of mine snapped off. Many thanks.

Post# 1187252 , Reply# 30   8/10/2023 at 06:51 by William637 (Damp pants? Not a chance. )        
I might have the part you are looking for.

william637's profile picture
I am out of town right now but I will try to remember and look in my basement when I get home.

Post# 1187309 , Reply# 31   8/10/2023 at 22:44 by Delco1946 (Oregon)        

Thank you William! Let me know when you can :)

Post# 1187440 , Reply# 32   8/12/2023 at 13:22 by William637 (Damp pants? Not a chance. )        
Here is what I have

william637's profile picture
I have this motor/pump/timer assembly from a dishmobile that I stripped down to keep my pristine custom imperial undercounter spin-tube in operation for many more years.

If one of the bolts of this will work for you, just point to the one you want and I will mail it to you


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Post# 1187534 , Reply# 33   8/13/2023 at 20:19 by Delco1946 (Oregon)        

I appreciate it but those just look like regular bolts, that I could just get at a hardware store. Has me thinking that could work if I stack some washers on there to tighten against the various motor upper plate and tub parts. Thanks for the creative solution :)

Not related to the bolt: trying to fix the leak. I have the motor out, shaft off, impeller off, washer off. Wonder what I should do regarding the pump seal. Even if I can remove it, Iím not clear what it looks like or if replacements are available. WRT replacing the washer, what type of washer should I use? The old one looked like a black rubber washer. Thx


Post# 1187547 , Reply# 34   8/14/2023 at 01:14 by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Can you take a photo of the washer you're referring to and the seal once you get it out? I would examine the seal for any crack in the rubber bellows part of the seal, if all is okay it may be leaking between the pump housing and the outer section of the seal. A little bit of cleaning and fresh silicone may solve that if that is where it is leaking from. Gentle cleaning of the sealing rings may help as well.

Post# 1187563 , Reply# 35   8/14/2023 at 13:55 by Delco1946 (Oregon)        

Posted pictures. Notice there was a small metal washer on the shaft per diagram. When I disassembled, it also looked like the metal washer / O ring had with a rubber washer stacked under it, AND that there was a larger rubber washer very imbedded into the plate. The diagram above only shows one rubber washer, so I am thinking that, perhaps my one washer has disintegrated and broken into what appears to now be two washers of different diameter. Not surprising seeing as the impeller and shaft are spinning very tightly against the washer to maintain a watertight seal doesnít seem to be the best design as eventually I would assume it would tear. I tried to point out the larger diameter rubber washer with a screwdriver.

What I remain unclear about is what the pump seal is. It does look like there is a metal piece that is pressed into the hole with the coiled spring seen in the picture, but I have no way of pulling it out and Iím not sure what good that would do. It seems like the rubber washer is the primary water barrier. But would appreciate feedback or suggestions!


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Post# 1187567 , Reply# 36   8/14/2023 at 15:27 by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

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It looks like the bronze washer on the impeller is identical to the washer used on the Pulsamatic/Multimatic/Rollermatic pumps, the 5433973 "Washer - Pump seal", and boot seal assembly looks similar to a standard dishwasher seal.

If there was a way to convert the bronze washer over a ceramic washer, I wouldn't be surprised if a seal for a KitchenAid 15-21 series pump would fit in the motor housing.

GM Frigidaire did have a conversion kit for these, that would update the washer to ceramic, and updated the impeller as well (full conversion kit - 6591902, last updated seal assembly was 6597961).

Ben


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Post# 1187600 , Reply# 37   8/14/2023 at 21:39 by Delco1946 (Oregon)        

Whatís the point of the conversion kit? Isnít this simply replacing the washer ( so bronze to ceramic)? Doesnít seem like much of a conversion unless Iím missing something. Did the new ceramic washer require a different diameter and thus the impeller needed to have a different diameter? Thx - Christopher

Post# 1187603 , Reply# 38   8/14/2023 at 22:21 by Delco1946 (Oregon)        

Well, I figured it out at least. The pump seal was basically for lack of a better term a rubber condom that went around the spring, and its ring like base and was held very snuggly around and fully encapsulated the piece. So this point I am taking suggestions for flexible soft material that is waterproof, and can take abuse/ doesnít tear easily. Perhaps a pool liner?

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Post# 1187623 , Reply# 39   8/15/2023 at 07:26 by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

swestoyz's profile picture
Thankfully you won't need to create a seal yourself. You more than likely can retrofit a later, more modern seal assembly in place. AFAIK, you can't intermix a boot seal designed for a bronze washer with a ceramic washer, so both need to be swapped out (thus, the Frigidaire kit above). Take a look at the two seal kits below:

This kit is for a 70's Whirlpool. The boot base diameter looks similar to the cast iron full opening for the pump, and the shaft opening also appears to be the right size (I imagine it's 5/16" or 3/8"). The ceramic washer is loose from the impeller (this is good for you) and if the diameter is close to the opening on your impeller, I bet you can use a good RTV silicone sealant to set it in place.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/192800170771...


This next kit is for a mid 1960's through mid 1970's 15-17 series KitchenAid, that also is mostly similar to an 18-20 series machine. Notice the ceramic washer is imbedded into the rubber impeller, but the boot seal is similar to the Whirlpool.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/334468378276...

This will take a bit of investigation on your part, but for the most part I think you'll be able to take a kit that is similar to the Whirlpool and make it work for your Frigidaire. When you do end up making this fix, make sure to pull out all old, carbonized rubber and clean up all surfaces as clean as possible. I'd also recommend using RTV on both the impeller side AND the pump base side to ensure a good and proper seal. You may also want to install a o-ring around the shaft to ensure that water doesn't enter the threads of the shaft if the seal became compromised.

Ben


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Post# 1188850 , Reply# 40   8/29/2023 at 22:24 by Delco1946 (Oregon)        

Thanks so much Ben! I purchased the kit shown in picture 1 and it looks to be a perfect fit! Dumb question tho: The instructions only discuss the screw used for certain impellers ( doesnít apply to me). No mention is made to the direction of the components. In examining this, Iím guessing the ceramic washer face rests directly against the underside of the impeller ( seems to produce the least turning friction). The rubber coated side then faces downward onto the rubberized spring piece. In this scenario the washer presumably rotates with the lower rubberized spring.

The first picture shows what I believe the top side orientation (plan view) of each piece, the 2nd photo then shows what I believe to be the downward facing sides, the 3rd pic shows a close up on the rubberized spring (narrow end again facing up), and then the 4th pic shows the stacked orientation. However an alternative orientation is presented in the fifth photo, and youíll notice the rubberized coating on the ceramic washer now rests against the underside of the impeller, and the smooth, ceramic face, then points downward, and rests directly on the narrow, hard lip of the rubberized spring. In this scenario the washer would probably rotate with the impeller. Confirmation of how the heck to stack these would be appreciated!

Iíll clean out the old gunk and use RTV silicone grease as recommended. Iím hoping this gets me a working (and non-leaking) motor! Thanks again.


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Post# 1189655 , Reply# 41   9/8/2023 at 22:20 by Delco1946 (Oregon)        
Project update Ö.sigh

This dishwasher is a pain in my ass ha.

So apparently this motor and impeller stack is too short to accommodate the ceramic washer. After tearing it all down, getting a new pump seal, repacking the ball bearing and reassembling, there was too much stacked under the impeller making it impossible to turn. I had accidentally snapped the original washer ( didnít realize it was so delicate and not metal). It looked similar to the graphite piece that mates to the ceramic washer from the nos kit I purchased ( which consequently started breaking from to much height getting stacked and squeezed under the impeller). Removed the ceramic, so the graphite ring seats directly against the impeller. Seems to be working as no water ended up leaking thru the drain tube ( just everywhere else).

Reinstalled the rebuilt motor, cork gasket, and used pipe dope as I wanted NO leaks. Dragged it outside, hooked it to the garden hose. First problem: the inlet valve connection just passes water constantly even when off. Second problem: the gasket sandwiched between the impeller housing and the tub leaks profusely. Not sure why - bad gasket? Not sandwiched tight enough? Scared to tighten things too much as parts just break on me. It was leaking so much that it was getting everywhere and hard to tell if other areas were leaking too.

Assuming that new gaskets between the housing and tub would help, any ideas where to get replacements? These look pretty thick. I ran out of steam tonight but need to take the inlet valve out and figure out whatís wrong with it.


Post# 1191330 , Reply# 42   10/5/2023 at 23:29 by Delco1946 (Oregon)        
Inlet valve mini project

Hi folks. Could use the collectiveís knowledge. Taking it one small task at a time. The inlet valve wasnít working and always passing water. I am assuming that it normally should shut off all flow until activated with current (tíwould be a very bad design tíother way round).

I took the valve apart and itís mostly all brass except for one rubber seating gasket that I assume should be soft enough that the spring behind it shuts off all water until current lifts the small needle off it. Sooooo Iíll be doing some googling, but anyone have or know where to get a replacement inlet valve? Or a replacement rubber gasket? Or other suggestions to make this puppy operational again?

Thanks - Christopher


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Post# 1191391 , Reply# 43   10/6/2023 at 15:57 by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Hi Christopher, just get yourself a water valve rebuild kit here at the link below. You also might want to soak the brass valve body in Lime-Away to remove any scale that might be in the metal parts.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Unimatic1140's LINK on eBay


Post# 1191394 , Reply# 44   10/6/2023 at 16:51 by Delco1946 (Oregon)        
Sold!!!

Wow, looks like a perfect match. Nothing like this was coming up in my searches, thanks a bunch!


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