Thread Number: 94654
/ Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
Low Speed as Relevant to Filter Flo Washers |
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Post# 1193029   11/4/2023 at 14:03 (181 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Is the low speed useful or needed with GE FF washers? I remember that low speed did not work on nearly every FF washers by the scrap pile with no one noticing it was gone.
The relatively slow RPM on high speed spins would not break threads in delicate fabrics, the ramp agitator was gentle enough when paired with the poly knit cycle, the mini basket covered handwash items and Hotpoint had a smooth fin agitator under the regular agitator to be used with handwash items.
I feel like GE would in advance cover for the disappearing low speed and that FFs could have all gotten away with being single speed right out of the box instead of GE messing around with two or multi speed clutches. I feel like low speed wash/spin with its two speed clutch was over-rated.
How do others feel? |
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Post# 1193032 , Reply# 1   11/4/2023 at 16:04 (181 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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My FFlo had the straight vane activator, not ramp activator. I deemed high speed agitation for good clothes was too rough and had to use gentle. This rough, aggressive agitation in TLers is why I feel the way I do with regards to tlers and flers. I mean, the FFlo & the Lady Shredmore did me in for Tlers.
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Post# 1193043 , Reply# 2   11/4/2023 at 19:15 (181 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA)   |   | |
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I often use the slow speed wash on my filter flos. The fast speed is pretty aggressive for certain things so it’s a matter of really short wash time or slower speed agitation to get effective washing. I’ve never had a clutch fail or wear out due to its use. I did service the clutch of my 1970 FF and essentially it really needed a good cleaning and lubricating. It works beautifully now.
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Post# 1193048 , Reply# 3   11/4/2023 at 20:30 (181 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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@Appnut- Perhaps a ramp or slim vane agitator would have suited your needs better? I find that washers with strong agitation also tended to have very immodest agitators in them compounding the aggressive agitation. A slim vane agitator, like a Maytag DC agi might have been a better option. TL washers can get quite soft with the right agitator. I personally like gentle agitators with a long wash time. I think that provides the best wash performance. GE FFs gave a 20 minute wash time on heavy soil. This post was last edited 11/04/2023 at 20:50 |
Post# 1193049 , Reply# 4   11/4/2023 at 21:03 (181 days old) by RyneR1988 (Indianapolis)   |   | |
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My dad and stepmom had a BOL filter flow that didn't have a separate speed control. I washed clothing on the regular setting all the time and never had a problem with fabric damage. I used that machine well into college, I believe it was around 2011 when it finally died and they bought a Maytag Bravos HE top loader.
Ryne |
Post# 1193057 , Reply# 5   11/4/2023 at 23:00 (181 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 1193062 , Reply# 6   11/5/2023 at 05:39 (181 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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It takes a very long time to wear out the low speed clutch in a GE Filter Flow washer. The only time I’ve ever seen a problem with the clutch completely wearing out was when people use nothing but low speed for 10 or 15 years, I would not be worried about using this very useful feature.
Multi Speed agitation on top load washers was a big breakthrough because it allowed you to wash more delicate things without damage. While I agree, almost all normal clothing can be washed at high speed they’ve been very few machines that caused damage to clothing, and one notable exception Were Maytag dependable care machines with the powerfin agitator were proven to destroy fabrics and one washing in consumer report testing of one Speed automatic washers. It is also probable that basic direct drive whirlpool washers can cause clothing damage but I’ve never seen any side-by-side testing to prove this but many customers have complained about it so I do believe I wouldn’t wash everything in a direct drive at high speed for extended periods of time. John |
Post# 1193077 , Reply# 8   11/5/2023 at 14:01 (180 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)   |   | |
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...has always been SLOW agitation and NORMAL spin speed. I noticed that my Mother's Mother, who had a WA-730X (which was, essentially the same as our WA-750W minus a rinse temperature toggle) always kept the speed button on SLOW.
Filter-Flo machines do an excellent cleaning job on big loads and heavy fabrics, but it's a little intense for finer stuff and when using lower water levels. There's a lot of splashing on NORMAL as well.
I have found, unfortunately, with many of the Filter-Flo's I've used, the SLOW speed option disappears one way or another after many years of use.
I'm using a WA-950X that starts out with slow agitation, but always goes to fast no matter what speed I choose. On our WA-750 W the SLOW option disappeared after about 8 years and was hardly used at all; the machine started and ran on fast speed no matter what. |
Post# 1193078 , Reply# 9   11/5/2023 at 14:12 (180 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Hi Ken, that’s just a simple adjustment to the shifter solenoid. The clutch is not worn out when they do that.
Sometimes the link on the shifter solenoid is broken. This will also cause that problem. It was definitely a Mickey Mouse system and always amazes me that one of the worlds largest makers of electric Motors couldn’t put a two speed motor in their own washers instead put a very complicated clutch and shifting mechanism , every other machine including their sister brand Hotpoint had two speed motors. John |
Post# 1193082 , Reply# 10   11/5/2023 at 15:33 (180 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Is the Maytag 1970-1980 center dial agitator really that rough on clothes? I recall it being amongst the gentlest. Not doubting, just wanting to learn more.
@Bajaespuma: Perhaps its a local thing, but I've noticed the same. Every single GE filter Flo and Hotpoint Rim flo that was older than 10 years was missing its low speed for some reason or another. Low speed simply did not remain for any length of time. Most common cause was the entire shifter armature was just missing in the scrap pile no where to be found. I feel like GE was aware of that and designed their machines with the ability to wash delicate, knit, PP and delicate items on high speed.
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Post# 1193169 , Reply# 12   11/7/2023 at 16:55 by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Eh- Maytag has often been rated one of the lowest cleaning washers. Based on the limited Maytags I've used, service manuals, observations and remarks on here Maytag was too gentle relative to other washers hence why Whirlpool and GE sold more washers. Based on what Maytag wrote, the 1970-1980 agi were meant to be gentle and washed/moved clothes by forcing water through them. Clothes would not stay around the lower fins for long, most of the time they were being turned over through the force of water. |
Post# 1193182 , Reply# 13   11/7/2023 at 20:47 by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area)   |   | |
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Maytag mostly built their reputation with the customers Steve S. mentioned with their WRINGER washers. |
Post# 1193193 , Reply# 14   11/8/2023 at 00:06 by bajaespuma (Connecticut)   |   | |
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Thanks John, I'll look at the solenoid.
My understanding is that GE didn't use a 2 speed motor because it would slow down the Filtration system to a dribble and they already had had enough complaints about dribbling in the Solid Tub models from customers who used the WATER SAVER option on those machines (even though the lid instructions warned the user).
Personally, I agreed with CU when they wrote that Clothes Dryer lint filtration was more effective than in the washers. And I notice that almost no new washing machines seem to bother with them. |
Post# 1193203 , Reply# 15   11/8/2023 at 07:04 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Hi Ken and others, yes, GE design criteria was to have the pump operating at full speed so there would be no drop off of pumping efficiency when the machine was operating on low speed.
Because of having to throw the water at distance into the filter pan, they felt that this was necessary every other brand of washing machine with a two speed motor managed to get the Ge Filter to work on low speed. In retrospect, it would’ve been much easier to design the pump to operate at low speed and then when the motor was running on high speed, they could’ve had a tiny restrictor valve so that it didn’t overwhelm the filter pan when it was on high speed, and it would’ve been a lot less cost and trouble , but this was 1950s engineering that should’ve been trashed long ago. It’s interesting when you look at belt, drive whirlpool products, Maytag, washing machines, GE washing machines, etc., they all had major design flaws which should’ve been dropped years ago and they kept building the machines without fixing basic problems. I’m often critical of Maytag but I’m just as critical of whirlpool belt, drive machines, whirlpool belt drive machines had a terrible snubber system, they should’ve had a belt tensioner, so they didn’t burn up belts when they got a little bit loose, they should’ve had a better water pump, they should’ve had better materials used on the spin tube and agitator shaft so the seal didn’t fail so soon the machines would’ve lasted far longer . But they weren’t trying to build a machine that would last 30 years they wanted you to buy a new machine every 10 to 20 years. John |
Post# 1193204 , Reply# 16   11/8/2023 at 07:39 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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"Personally, I agreed with CU when they wrote that Clothes Dryer lint filtration was more effective than in the washers. And I notice that almost no new washing machines seem to bother with them."
What you say is largely true, but remember early on many households only had an automatic washing machine, for which they were grateful. Since laundry was line dried any help from washer in removing lint was welcomed. Even homes with a dryer welcomed lint filter in washer for various reasons. |
Post# 1193205 , Reply# 17   11/8/2023 at 07:50 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Maytag and others who make top loading washers must see a need in market for some type of filtration system. Proving everything once old is new again.
Then you have this... Now Maytag of old had in agitator lint filters for both wringer washers and automatics. Have to say using said filter in my Maytag wringer does catch lots of lint. www.automaticwasher.org/c... www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/... |
Post# 1193212 , Reply# 18   11/8/2023 at 10:54 by RyneR1988 (Indianapolis)   |   | |
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Good explanation for why gentleness on clothing has become so much the main focus in the modern day, it's something I've off and on wondered about. Even as late as my childhood in the 90's cleanliness took top notch and gentleness to fabrics was somewhere below that. Now they've mostly switched places because Americans sit in air-conditioned/heated offices hunched over their computers day after day and meanwhile children get an iPad as early as like six years of age so that's literally all they do with their free time. Ugh.
Ryne |
Post# 1193213 , Reply# 19   11/8/2023 at 11:22 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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There's also fact much clothing made today is not what it once was.
Even Levi's jeans which once were darned near indestructible cannot seem to withstand routine hard laundering. This goes for all sorts of clothing and things like bed or table linens. Years ago bed linens were made to withstand routine hot (at or > 140 F) washing with liberal dosing of chlorine bleach. This also including sending things to commercial laundries which often beat the life out of things. |
Post# 1193311 , Reply# 20   11/10/2023 at 05:30 by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)   |   | |
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the filter on the washer is very much a boon as the hair it gathers is quite impressive.
If I launder same items in the Miele which has a honeycomb drum hair does not get removed as well and I find it necessary to rinse the machine out afterwards. I guess for its time the Filter Flo machines were a godsend for removing loose hairs etc. |
Post# 1193312 , Reply# 21   11/10/2023 at 06:00 by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 1193391 , Reply# 22   11/11/2023 at 11:40 by HobartHero (New York)   |   | |
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Post# 1193398 , Reply# 23   11/11/2023 at 12:20 by HobartHero (New York)   |   | |
This post has been removed by the member who posted it. |
Post# 1193585 , Reply# 24   11/14/2023 at 01:50 by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)   |   | |
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Wonder if this has to do with how changing speeds during the agitation could do the machine, my only filter-flo experience was my grandma's sorta knock-off she'd bought at k mart w/ knobs, not toggle switches and even a left-opening lid...
It boasted a nice blue ramp agitator and lint filter over it, so seemingly that design should be enough to wash stuff gently, and occasionally you see in the POD a one-speed entry-level GE washer and it's equally BOL dryer... -- Dave |
Post# 1193605 , Reply# 25   11/14/2023 at 13:31 by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 1193610 , Reply# 26   11/14/2023 at 14:42 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Post# 1193615 , Reply# 27   11/14/2023 at 16:35 by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 1193616 , Reply# 28   11/14/2023 at 16:46 by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 1193619 , Reply# 30   11/14/2023 at 18:18 by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 1193642 , Reply# 31   11/14/2023 at 22:22 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Post# 1193648 , Reply# 32   11/15/2023 at 07:36 by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 1193687 , Reply# 33   11/15/2023 at 23:12 by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)   |   | |
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I would also wonder if it would be possible for GE Appliances to make a Filter Flow washer out of their current designs with a new type of filter on top of the agitator. It could be advertised as a washer for people with pets or who have septic tanks. The Filter could be an optional accessory or come with some models.
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Post# 1193694 , Reply# 34   11/16/2023 at 02:28 by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)   |   | |
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Like I said I did a harmless switching from Normal to Gentle and back before realizing accounting to consumer reports that doing that was bad for the machine and could damage it...
My grandma probably only used Normal anyway, and the temperatures were hot/warm, warm/cold and cold/cold, with three water levels... I suppose that washer and whatever matching dryer she didn't get were as tol as a k mart would sell, I'd seen GE washers and dryers and probably other GE appliances and none very fancy, even looking like what other appliance stores would sel, as this was years later... My new Maytag has a pull up filter in the center of its agitator but it's for removing pet hair which my daughter's gainea pig linen seldom gets... And as for whatever lint it gathers it makes me appreciate a self cleaning one... Also the drain hose is very narrow and I don't want to buy all this'd expensive wire filters for it anymore either... -- Dave |
Post# 1193696 , Reply# 35   11/16/2023 at 05:55 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Hi Bob, one of the best things you can do for a septic tank is let hair and lint get into it. These items are organic and increase the efficiency and function of a septic tank.
Lint and pet hair will not clog drain lines either. We’ve been working for a local veterinary hospital for over 40 years. They do a ton of laundry that’s covered with pet hair. They’ve never had a clogged drain both washing machines drain directly into standpipes. John |
Post# 1193701 , Reply# 36   11/16/2023 at 06:46 by qsd-dan (West)   |   | |
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Hi Bob, one of the best things you can do for a septic tank is let hair and lint get into it. Where the hell do you come up with this nonsense? Talk to anybody who services septic tanks and they tell you that lint and hair are almost impossible for microbes to break down. Lint is a big cause of septic failure. So is using a garbage disposer, especially with foods that don't break down easily or at all. A simple google search reveals these warnings....everywhere.
For whatever reason, your logic often goes against what experts have warned for many decades. It's not worth risking thousands, sometimes tens of thousands of dollars, to correct a septic failure.
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Post# 1193711 , Reply# 37   11/16/2023 at 13:21 by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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As someone who has a septic system, DO NOT let lint and hair go down the drain. If those leach lines clog, it’s game over and will cost upwards of $15,000+ to have them dug up and replaced. Of course, there will be some lint and hair that will make its way down the drain but excessive amounts is a big no-no. Even if you have your septic system pumped out every 2 to 3 years as a preventative measure, I would still be weary of putting hair and lint down the drain along with excessive amounts of toilet paper.
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Post# 1193714 , Reply# 38   11/16/2023 at 13:47 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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My septic system of 19 years has not yet needed a pump-out. I try to avoid hair down the drains as best I can but it's difficult on the tub drains with pop-up stoppers and no screens. The shower in the master bath is separate from the tub, with a screen on its drain although somewhat large perforations. I took the screen off sometime in the last couple years and was shocked hot much air was accumulated beneath it, although the drain wasn't impaired. I didn't do anything for years to avoid it in the sink for facial shaving, but I do now with beard trimming. I do that only at one specific sink, with the drain stopper closed and never rinse the sink, I vacuum it. |
Post# 1193741 , Reply# 39   11/16/2023 at 22:32 by qsd-dan (West)   |   | |
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Call me paranoid, but I put those tight mesh screens on every single drain I have. Kitchen sink/Kitchenette sinks/bathroom sinks, tub (it was a pop-up stopper, I removed it). It doesn't filter everything 100% but probably a good 90%. If I had room to install a utility laundry sink, I would install one and run the drain hose through a tight meshed screen as well. The vintage Maytags filter pretty well and most of my laundry is ancient and quit shedding years/decades ago so I'm not overly concerned. However, if anybody has ideas on how I can run the washer drain hose through an easily accessible filter via a standpipe, please let me know. |
Post# 1193742 , Reply# 40   11/17/2023 at 00:37 by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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Another thing that will probably put a little less lint down the drain is I’ve been quite conservative with wash times as of late, been washing lightly soiled items for 3 to 5 minutes and noticed there’s been a lot less lint, even with things like towels. Though, I still wash things like whites or anything heavily soiled for a good 8 to 10 minutes. Definitely will save time along with reducing wear and tear on the machine.
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Post# 1194000 , Reply# 41   11/20/2023 at 19:33 by bpetersxx (laf in on the banks of the Wabash River)   |   | |
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this is it I think
but it does cost some big buck if I recall CLICK HERE TO GO TO bpetersxx's LINK
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Post# 1194007 , Reply# 42   11/21/2023 at 06:29 by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)   |   | |
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Post# 1194013 , Reply# 43   11/21/2023 at 10:31 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Post# 1194014 , Reply# 44   11/21/2023 at 10:44 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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The filter and reply number 41 is aim primarily at trapping microfiber plastic particles and keeping them out of the environment. Of course it would also trap lint.
It’s very clear that microfiber particles could not possibly hurt a septic tank. They are so tiny that they will just flow through with the water. I’m not making any judgments to how good or bad they are for the environment. I think they’re generally a bad thing, as we are eating things that contain them at this point I spent an hour or so researching septic tank design and function and it’s very clear to me that you couldn’t possibly put enough hair in a septic tank or lint from laundry to ever hurt a septic tank Both of these items are heavier than water and they will sink to the bottom and they will either decompose or be pumped out someday if the tank is cleaned, but never could build up in the lifetime of a human being enough hair to be a problem. It’s amusing Sean and Dan that you’re worried about your septic tanks yet you’re using a washing machine that puts between 40 and 70 gallons of water a load into the septic system , the two things that are clearly bad for a septic system are grease and too much water. The thing that is good for a septic system to function properly as human waste and lots of food waste from garbage, disposals, again hair, and lint are insignificant in the whole process. Also hair lint, etc. will not clog drain pipes. Once you get past the sink strainer these items will flush straight on out into the septic tank or into the sewage system. It’s clear from watching a lot of videos last night that many people have no idea what they’re talking about even people who work with septic tanks, etc., this is a common problem today that people don’t have any common sense and they don’t know anything about science and how things actually work but this is true and many areas of our lives now , John |
Post# 1194026 , Reply# 45   11/21/2023 at 16:55 by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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