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Thread Number: 95725
/ Tag: Detergents and Additives
Cold water washing has arrived |
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Post# 1203634 4/17/2024 at 16:12 by jetcone  (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Having developed my own detergent; Rosalie's Zero Suds; and always recommended hot or warm wash I was gobsmacked to try New Tide Professional.
The claim is professional stains gone in 1 wash in COLD. Now normally I would brush this off, but I know P&G have been in the lab these last two years trying to build cold water surfactants and 3 of the chemicals I have been following along are now in this product. Lets see what it can do shall we ?? | ||
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Post# 1203635 , Reply# 1 4/17/2024 at 16:14 by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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I decided
too go right in the heart of the matter !
Kitchen Towels and Napkins a week old. Yes that is spaghetti sauce on those week old napkins and 2 week old bath towel with live hand grudge on it. Take a peek I ve tried to post them before and after order . | ||
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Post# 1203636 , Reply# 2 4/17/2024 at 16:17 by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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I was pretty impressed
There was no grease on the kitchen towels all the hand grunge was gone on the bath towel.
Yes I said no grease ! That was one of the chemicals they were developing and I gotta say it works ! The towel came out as white as the 1957 Turnpike Cruiser ! Next I did a complete mixed load, jeans white items, black items. Everything came out great no dye transfer at all ! Yes those are tight whiteys with zero skid marks !!! AND I like the scent its almost 60s ish ! | ||
| Post# 1203637 , Reply# 3 4/17/2024 at 16:34 by qsd-dan (West) | ||
What was the incoming temp of the water?
Will this still function well in warm and hot water temps or will the enzymes be destroyed? I tried a small bottle of liquid Coldwater Tide about 10 years ago and got horrible results in warm (120F) and hot (160F) water temps. It did work fine in 85F though. An interesting experiment but I never purchased it again. I am rather surprised that P&G put a significant amount of money and effort into a powdered detergent. I assumed it was on its way out and liquids would take over the throne for good. | ||
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Post# 1203638 , Reply# 4 4/17/2024 at 17:05 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Impressive results with Coldwater washing | ||
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Post# 1203639 , Reply# 5 4/17/2024 at 17:06 by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Post# 1203641 , Reply# 6 4/17/2024 at 17:23 by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 1203649 , Reply# 7 4/17/2024 at 18:59 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Tide Professional and Tide "Pro-Line" have been flogging cold water washing for some time now.
Meant for commercial, institutional or OPL laundries idea is savings on energy and wear on textiles by using cold water but without sacrificing results. Latter is important for hospitality and catering linens where things are expected not just to be clean, but "pop" as part of presentation. pgpro.com/en-us/brands/tide-prof... pgpro.com/en-us/brands/tide-prof... www.americanhotel.com/pg-... P&G tests these versions of Tide in cold water temp of 90 degrees F. This would be between 35 to about hair under 40 degrees C. There is an oxygen bleach version as well: www.amazon.ca/Tide-Profes... | ||
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Post# 1203652 , Reply# 8 4/17/2024 at 19:11 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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"I tried a small bottle of liquid Coldwater Tide about 10 years ago and got horrible results in warm (120F) and hot (160F) water temps. It did work fine in 85F though. An interesting experiment but I never purchased it again."
Also have a bottle of Tide "Coldwater" of old (Free and Clear). Recall from reading in press and online P&G formulated Tide cold water versions to work best in just that, cold water temps of about 86F to 90F. Higher wash water temps actually decrease performance as enzymes and everything about said product was formulated for lower temperatures. www.nytimes.com/2011/09/1... Those of us old enough to remember will recall laundry detergent packets advised using slightly more product when washing in cold water. P&G cracked that in as Tide Coldwater is slightly more concentrated than it's warmer water cousins. Consumer Reports rated Tide CW highly at the time. But they also noted Tide "free and gentle" along with a few other versions worked equally well in warm water. Since Tide CW is meant for 90 degrees or so F, difference between using warm water (100-105F) would be minimal in terms of energy use I shouldn't wonder. In contrast Tide, Henkel, Unilever and others who sell detergents in Europe have products that work at 20 or 30 degrees C. www.ariel.co.uk/en-gb/how... Japan of course in common with some other Asian nations is famous for doing laundry in largely cold water only. Things do come out of wash clean, but all over Japan and elsewhere there is a vast selection of disinfectants and other products designed to cope with foul smelling washing machines. | ||
| Post# 1203656 , Reply# 9 4/17/2024 at 19:48 by powerfin64 (Yakima, Washington) | ||
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| Post# 1203658 , Reply# 10 4/17/2024 at 20:07 by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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"I wonder how it will do when the water is 43-45 degrees during a typical Minnesota winter."
I don't think any detergent is going to provide even mediocre results at those temps. A tempering valve is your best friend in that situation, definitely worth the investment if one uses a front loader without a heater or just about any top loader. According to the links that Launderess posted, "cold" water needs to be least 90F for this detergent to function properly. How many in the US are feeding 90F to their washer, either top or front load, for their cold water washes? Better yet, how many users are feeding at least 75F to their washer, which is the bare minimum requirement for most detergents to work correctly? "Recall from reading in press and online P&G formulated Tide cold water versions to work best in just that, cold water temps of about 86F to 90F. Higher wash water temps actually decrease performance as enzymes and everything about said product was formulated for lower temperatures." Yeah, got schooled with that one. Would have never expected worse results with hotter water but it indeed held true to its warnings. | ||
| Post# 1203661 , Reply# 11 4/17/2024 at 21:52 by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
That's pretty crazy results.... Remember the Cold Power detergent from a long time ago? Was that for cold water washing also? I'm imagining it was. I remember my grandma using it but she always washed almost everything in warm wash/cold rinse in her GM Frigidaire.
The water here is frigid in the winter too.. I wonder if my duet would mix with warm to give the cold a certain temp or if it just comes straight from the tap into the drum. Honestly, I have no clue. P&G definitely probably has the most LAB testing hours over any other brand... Isn't Tide one of the items on the list of items being stoplifted? | ||
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Post# 1203668 , Reply# 13 4/17/2024 at 23:37 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Japanese laundry product market has detergents with both chlorine and oxygen bleaching systems. Latter is often "activated" just like Tide with Bleach or Persil. These products are designed to work in cold water.
lifeabroad.jp/html/daily_life/la... Indeed laundry product makers seemed to have cracked every niche of market. "Attack Strong Deodorizer" "Extra-strength deodorizing laundry detergent that removes urine odours (from bedding and clothing of children and adults experiencing incontinence) and other strong odours and stains. Also removes yellow stains. 2 rinses recommended. Safe for use on all machine-washable fabrics. Can also be used to wash the inside of your washing machine. Contains optical brighteners to make whites look whiter. Safe for use on fabric of all colours. Does not contain bleach." Top loading washing machines of all sorts are popular in Japan and much if Asia. Problem is these machines don't have heaters and washers are plumbed to cold water connection only. There are ways around, but there you have it. There are also detergents meant for laundry that is to be dried indoors. www.survivingnjapan.com/2011/11/g... www.2hugeinjapan.com/doing-laund... In Korea Clorox bleach is "LAX". It's no match however for often grotty washing machines fouled by cold water use only. | ||
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Post# 1203671 , Reply# 15 4/18/2024 at 01:07 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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"I wonder how it will do when the water is 43-45 degrees during a typical Minnesota winter."
Tempering valves have been common on industrial/commercial washing machines going back to early part of prior century. Domestic washing machines had them early as 1940's or 1950's IIRC. One would hope any washing machine worth its salt would have some way to temper cold water wash fills so things aren't what comes out of tap. Well at least for those who live in areas where tap water routinely drops to very low temps for good part of year. In Germany and other parts of Europe "Cold and Short" has become new mantra on wash day. "With regard to the washing temperature, the researchers found that the discoloration of the textiles increases between 20 and 40 degrees more than between 40 and 60 degrees. In some of the T-shirts examined, more than twice as much color was lost after 16 washes (85 minutes at 40 degrees) as with 16 short washes (30 minutes) at 25 degrees, as the researchers report in the journal "Dyes and Pigments". The loss of colour is therefore greater with cotton than with polyester." www.chip.de/news/Schont-W... P&G's Ariel wins high marks for washing in 20 degrees C water. www.srf.ch/sendungen/kass... | ||
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Post# 1203672 , Reply# 16 4/18/2024 at 01:34 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Bringing this back on home.
It may seem counter intuitive but powder detergents in many instances are better in cold water washing than liquids.
In Europe where laundry detergent powders are still common they best most liquid format products. Powders are simply better at whiteness, overall stain removal, keeping soils from redepositing on fabrics... Tide "Professional" like TWB contains oxygen bleach and an activator. pgpro.com/en-us/brands/tide-prof... Over years makers of oxygen bleach activators in concert with detergent producers have upped their game. Original intent of oxygen bleach activators was to get boil wash results at warm to moderately hot wash temps (Dirt Says Hot, but Label Does Not...). P&G and Henkel at least for their top shelf products have taken things down to "cold water" territory. This in keeping with push by governments and consumer groups for ever more energy savings on wash day. Trend in Europe is clear; a study by Electrolux found 44% of European households doing wash at 30 degrees C or lower. If trend continues majority of households in Europe will be doing laundry in cold water. www.electroluxgroup.com/e... | ||
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Post# 1203673 , Reply# 17 4/18/2024 at 03:34 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Post# 1203676 , Reply# 18 4/18/2024 at 04:53 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 1203679 , Reply# 19 4/18/2024 at 06:31 by JetCone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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HAHAHAHAHA #Turntocold movement
This thread sparked rebellion over at Family Laundry as well!
Louis Ill switch to HOT When you come visit ! Hugs ! To answer some questions : 1 our water temp right now is 68 degrees I am using Pro in warm now still cleaned up the tighty whiteys ! Yes Tom I reset the machine manually to full wash as I am very familiar with the "Sinners Circle" ! John I also used it in my Frigidare by Gibson you sold me years ago. Does beautiful work in there as well. Jason is terrified of SWS - Stinky Washer Syndrome however I have noticed its ability to remove grime at COLD so I will be testing for that as well going forward. Somebody kick Jason up here to sniff my washing machines !!! IT is only available at Staples online store QUILL. The liquid formulation is not at all the same as this powder and I see one important surfactant missing from it. I am a powder guy always have been so its no big chip off my shoulders to be using powder. All I can say is this appears to rock !! Get Cracking people, save up your skid marks and set the dial to COLD! I wanna hear hard cold results in the coming weeks !!!!!
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Post# 1203680 , Reply# 20 4/18/2024 at 07:35 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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There are a few flavors of "Tide Professional" about.
We had a thread here in group back in 2013 on one version. www.automaticwasher.org/c... There's fleaPay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/234801614202... Liquid: roundeyesupply.com/products/tide... Pods: www.amazon.com/Profession... Powder on Amazon: www.amazon.com/Profession... This latest incarnation seems to be a reboot or reset. P&G is going all out with PR blitz for something, again as one has said has been around for sometime. That is P&G "professional" laundry featuring Tide products launched well over a decade or more ago IIRC. P&G does seem to be confining distribution to warehouse stores or other places that supply business owners. Amazon certainly fits that bill and they like other "super stores" have business pricing and so on. P&G couldn't turn down Amazon, that place moves too much of their goods worldwide. P&G does do side deals with Target and other places. There are versions of Tide and other P&G products you only see at Target or another place, but not otherwise generally found. Just so people know there is an Ariel professional line as well. It too has been around for some time in one form or another. pgpro.co.uk/en-gb/products/ariel... https://www.ebay.com/itm/254584397390... | ||
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Post# 1203682 , Reply# 21 4/18/2024 at 07:41 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Both Unilever and Henkel versions of Persil have "professional" formulas as well.
www.germanfoods.shop/Pers... | ||
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Post# 1203683 , Reply# 22 4/18/2024 at 07:52 by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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If someone`s top priority regarding laundry is to save energy and minimize wear on clothes, fine then cold water washing might be their holy grail.
Not gonna argue with this, we`re all different individuals with different needs. But one of the world`s largest detergent manufacturers offering a product to wash hospitality laundry in cold water is beyond gross in my opinion. I`ll never understand how some first world countries like Spain or the USA seem to have zero regulation on how shared laundry has to be treated. It`s not just because I am very OCD when it comes to laundry (otherwise I`m a bit more relaxed when it comes to cleanliness), but as a frequent traveler I`ve also had my share of skin conditions like pustules or rashes after using such questionable "hospitality linen". Yuck! | ||
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Post# 1203684 , Reply# 23 4/18/2024 at 08:08 by JetCone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Have used Persil Pro Powder and love it
BUt have never tested that in COLD.
But lOOKIEE What just popped up in Canada !!!!>>>> Says not currently available. However The American TidePro HAS OXY in the formula ! Sodium Carbonate Peroxide ! There will be no stink in my machines so send that Jason up to confirm ! CLICK HERE TO GO TO JetCone's LINK
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Post# 1203687 , Reply# 24 4/18/2024 at 09:18 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Louis Ill switch to HOT When you come visit ! Hugs ! | ||
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Post# 1203688 , Reply# 25 4/18/2024 at 09:28 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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The problem is most people don’t think cold
Is around 100°F, I’ve been suggesting for years you can get clothing quite clean and hundred degree wash water even 70°F. Does a pretty decent job cleaning with adequate amounts of detergent and decent water quality.
Washing machines need to have a temperature read out on them that tells what temperature you’re actually washing in to help customers make the best choices. Clothing manufacturers need to specify what temperature they want the clothing washed in not this cool or cold BS With modern energy star machines you really need to set the thing on hot, which may give you a temperature of little over 100°F for most washing, my customer is look at me like I’m crazy when I suggest using the hot setting on their modern machines for nearly all washing, I try to explain that even their brand new black jeans can be washed on the hot setting in a modern machine or a front loading washer. John | ||
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Post# 1203690 , Reply# 26 4/18/2024 at 09:54 by appnut (TX) |
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Tide Professonal Powder is available in central Texas at Walmart and Amazon. I'm still working on my big boxes of Tide w/Bleach alternative and original Tide. It wwill probably be a while still before I use those up. I"ll be monitoring this thread discussion until time to replace and Profesiosnal will be the only version of Tide Powder I do laundry with it that meets with your approval Jon. Would simply my life. And gasp, maybe select cold wash temp. My LG, Warm on normal is between 85 to 90F and other cycles it's 90F to 95F.
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Post# 1203694 , Reply# 27 4/18/2024 at 10:57 by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD) |
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What is "Sinners Circle"? Thank you | ||
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Post# 1203698 , Reply# 28 4/18/2024 at 12:00 by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Thank you Appnut!
Mother Superior has a point on temperature! Inside the Industry Cold is between 65-80 degrees. So washing at 100 would be warm. And as MS has tutored me before, think of all the solid metal inside your machine that has to come to temperature??? You start at 100 and BANG your down to Cold between 65-80 degrees. So John is right start as hot as you can.
Now In Beatrice Bendix you hit the HOT button and you have steam coming out the soap door! Tom; Karcher explains the Sinners Circle very clearly see link. I used it to design Rosalies and Rosalies washing instruction. CLICK HERE TO GO TO jetcone's LINK
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Post# 1203703 , Reply# 29 4/18/2024 at 12:40 by appnut (TX) |
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Well Mother Superior, with my LG I am able to constantly monitor water temperature by simply pushing simultaneously wash temp & delay start buttons. So I watch as the didital display changes as warm or hot water enters the tub. It's actually quite consistent with the monitoring of the temp incoming as opposed to target temp for selection. YOu kn ow me, I thoroughly watching data change in front of me.
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Post# 1203705 , Reply# 30 4/18/2024 at 12:56 by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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Tide plus Bleach left side......Tide Professional right side
Sodium Sulfate............................Sodium Sulfate
Sodium Carbonate........................................Sodium Carbonate Sodium C10-16 Alkylbenzenesulfonate.......Sodium C10-16 Alkylbenzenesulfonate Sodium Carbonate Peroxide.........................Sodium Carbonate Peroxide Sodium Silicate..............................................Sodium Silikate TAED..............................................................TAED Zeolite (Sodium Silicoaluminate)................Zeolite Water.............................................................(not listed) C10-16 Pareth..............................................C10-16 Alketh Sodium Polyacrylate.................................Sodium Polyacrylate Fragrance...................................................Cellulose Gum Cellulose Gum.............................................Fragrance C16-18 Fatty Acids Sodium Salt...............Flourescent Brightener 71 Fluorescent Brightener 71.......................C16-18 Fatty Acid Sodium Salts Anionic Modified Polyester.....................(not listed) Disodium Distyrylbiphenyl Disulfonate...Disodium Distyrylbiphenyl Disulfonate Organosilicone Copolymer......................Subtilisin Subtilisin.................................................Organosilicone Copolymer Amylase Enzyme...................................Amylase Enzyme PIGMENT BLUE 15..............................Pigment Blue 15 Not that much of a difference apart from the box it seems I am a bit puzzeled about the 3 miracle chemicals, can`t see anything extraordinary neither in the Tide with Bleach nor in Tide Professional. Both seem to be decent formulars though. smartlabel.pg.com/en-us/00037000... pgpro.com/en-us/brands/tide-prof... | ||
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Post# 1203708 , Reply# 31 4/18/2024 at 13:36 by JetCone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Not sure what you mean Mr Boilwash | ||
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Post# 1203710 , Reply# 32 4/18/2024 at 13:47 by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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Post# 1203711 , Reply# 33 4/18/2024 at 14:27 by JetCone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Mr Boilwash
I may have not been clear earlier but I was comparing TIDE PRO LIQUID to TIDE PRO POWDER.
2 different animals entirely. The chemicals I have been tracking that P&G has been developing and testing for colder temperatures are: C10-16 Alketh THe Polyacrylates c16-18 Fatty Acids ( long chain ) And Distyryibiphenyl Disulfonate
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Post# 1203712 , Reply# 34 4/18/2024 at 14:30 by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 1203716 , Reply# 35 4/18/2024 at 15:29 by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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Sorry Jon, I must have missed that you were comparing Tide Pro Liquid to Tide Pro Powder.
I assumed we were only discussing the powder product pictured in your first post. Bob mentioned he`s still working through a big box of Tide with Bleach powder so I compared the ingredients of both. I did this because in Germany P&G and Henkel are also known to sell the same products in different boxes as Professional and as well as regular consumer products. And big surprise, it looks like it`s the same route in the US. Don`t want to start a dispute but I don`t think there`s anything special about those cold water chemicals you`re referring. A nonionic sufactant, a polymere, soap and an OBA, those are usually found in any detergent, aren`t they? But I`m glad it works so well for you even in cold. Enjoy it! | ||
| Post# 1203720 , Reply# 36 4/18/2024 at 15:45 by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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Fill temps:
With top loaders, the temperature differential between the fill flume and a full tub is not as radical as a front loader. Years ago, I did some temperatures tests on fill flume tests vs. a full tub on the Maytags and found about 0-2F difference in 85F (cold), around 3-4F for 120F (warm) and 6-7F for 162F (hot). Nothing radical like a 15-20F+ drop. Helical Maytags have a lot of metal in their design (225 pounds) so they hold temps better than others. When I first got my tempering valve, I fooled around with cold temps and found bleeding to occur with OLD dark clothes in high 80F/low 90F temps. I would not recommend using temps higher than 87-88F in a top load washer with colors you want to preserve. The 90F recommendation is really pushing the limits and I guarantee you WILL see color bleeding in the water at and above that temp. Been there, done that....bled some coloring out of the t-shirt(s). Water temps are also dependent on placement. My main washer has always been inside the house so ambient temps are in the mid 60's through 70's. Major adjustments would need to be considered when placed in a garage of a residence in the northern part of the US during winter. | ||
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Post# 1203728 , Reply# 38 4/18/2024 at 16:42 by JetCone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Brisnat81
HAhahahaahahahahah
yes I will apply myself now. A 4-6 test sounds good ! But there is no cold washing in the Bendix,hot is HOT and MED is HOT !LOL Mr Boilwash I understand now why you were discussing Tide with bleach. They are all similar formulas. The chemicals I mentioned were engineered to wash in cooler temperatures, yes they are similar names but the structure of a surfactant affects its cleaning power and 3 of those , (As i have read, I didn't do the lab work) they have been made to have much longer chains that what was used several years ago. Evidently longer chain surfactant the cooler you can clean. But even in my research P&G has stated ( and I know this well) you can't just come up with a working formula because there is a synergy between chemicals so there is still a lot of guess in new formulations.. sorry to drag on but its HOT ( no pun intended ) on my mind right now. As we are working right now to reintroduce Rosalie's. I have to keep up with the market. | ||
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Post# 1203730 , Reply# 39 4/18/2024 at 18:38 by appnut (TX) |
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Stefan, I apologize for causing any confusion for you. The only reason I mentionned the current powders I am using is because it's going to be quite a while before I invest in this Professional powder because because I still have quite a bit of powder in both boxes. The Tide with bleach powder was delivered November 4 2021. Stated number of loads on box is 89. The previous box was ordered September 4 2017.
The most recent order for Tide Original Powder was March 25 2022. And stated load quantity on the box is 102 loads. The new LG washer was delivered November 11 2021. Prior to the LG replacing the Duet, I had begun using the auto dispensing liquid detergent feature for the Duet for about a year or two before the Duet needed to be replaced. the majority of the 10 years I had the Duet, I had been using powdeers. But Frigilux was the one to convinece me to begin using liquids and using the auto dose liquid dispeneser in the Duet because he had been using the auto dose feature in the comparable Maytag he had in his house prior to him selling his house and that Maytag pair was included with the sale of the house. My volume of laundry reduced significantly once I retired in May 2020. I also find I need to use less detergent with the LG turbowash than I needed with the Duet. | ||
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Post# 1203733 , Reply# 40 4/18/2024 at 20:06 by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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“I can resist everything except temptation.” (Oscar Wilde)
Yep. Even though I have enough powdered detergent to last years, I had to order a box of the new Tide Professional. I really want to give it the purposely stained kitchen towel test. Bob- And from liquids to pods and back to liquids, I’ve circled back around to the old school: powdered detergent. That self-dosing system on the 2015 Maytag front-loader was awesome. I ordered it from Staples online, as did Jetcone, because I wasn’t sure the seller on Amazon had the latest version of the product. It’s supposed to arrive April 22nd. Looking forward to trying yet another detergent that’s new to me. For all the Tide products I’ve used over the years, I’ve never tried the Professional line. | ||
| Post# 1203740 , Reply# 41 4/18/2024 at 23:07 by powerfin64 (Yakima, Washington) | ||
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Frig | ||
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Post# 1203760 , Reply# 42 4/19/2024 at 01:28 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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"But one of the world`s largest detergent manufacturers offering a product to wash hospitality laundry in cold water is beyond gross in my opinion."
Tide Professional powdered detergent in common with Ariel, Persil and other such being flogged for "cold water washing" contain healthy amounts of sodium percarbonate and oxygen bleach activator. That combination produces in situ peracetic acid, a powerful sanitizer even in cold or cool water. As noted in previous post this is why powdered detergents deliver better overall results in cool or cold water than liquids. Powders that contain activated oxygen bleaching systems have been made to work not just in moderately to hot or warm water, but cold. Above has long been known as Persil and other European powder detergents with activated bleaching systems long warned against frequent washing of dark or richly coloured laundry in their products. Fading, loss of colour and other side effects from bleaching are bound to happen sooner or later. www.lenntech.com/processe... "I`ll never understand how some first world countries like Spain or the USA seem to have zero regulation on how shared laundry has to be treated." In many regulations or recommendations largely speak to healthcare laundry for a host of obvious reasons. www.cdc.gov/infectioncont.... www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article... Germany has the compulsory dictates of Koch Institute, but again this applies only to hospital/healthcare laundry. hospitalhealthcare.com/news/hygi... What you also have are private groups that have various certification schemes. www.waeschereien.de/filea... www.innovationintextiles.com/hyg... www.hohenstein.us/en-us/textile-... cleanroomtechnology.com/hygiene-... | ||
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Post# 1203762 , Reply# 43 4/19/2024 at 03:21 by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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Launderess, sorry if I wasn`t clear enough. I didn`t have healthcare laundry in mind, I meant hygiene regulations like they exist for hotels, barbershops, catering and so on. From what I gather regulations for those types of buisinesses in Germany seem to be applied locally and individually from the States not nationally like for healthcare. But at least there are regulations.
I remember having read in an article that even with a TAED activated bleaching system 30°C is not enough to prevent a buildup of germs in towels in the long run and even in a domestic setting where you wash only your own towels the combination of a bleach containing powder with a minimum of 40°C is strongly recommended. Unfortunately I cannot find the link anymore and I`m not even sure who provided this information, but I`m sure it was a reliable source like Henkel, Warentest, Robert Koch or similar. This information applied to normal "Universal" powders not to disinfecting powders which may only be sold to commercial applications and thus cannot be easily purchased by the average consumer. Also keep in mind that liquid Tide Professional does not contain a bleaching system . I wonder if P&G recommends this for washing hospitality laundry in cold water too? | ||
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Post# 1203763 , Reply# 44 4/19/2024 at 03:55 by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK) |
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Cold Water Washing 
Oh dear...."I`ll Just Leave This One Here" !!
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Post# 1203765 , Reply# 45 4/19/2024 at 06:12 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Commercial "hygiene" wash powders are easily sourced if one is persistent and knows where to look.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/393809419917QUE... https://www.ebay.com/itm/364036137366QUE... | ||
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Post# 1203767 , Reply# 46 4/19/2024 at 06:35 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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For comparison | ||
| Post# 1203772 , Reply# 47 4/19/2024 at 07:55 by volvoman (West Windsor, NJ) | ||
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You mention the.... ....scent, being almost "60's" -ish. 60's-ish Tide? Or 60's-ish, in general? I guess the biggest question here, is does it smell like the Tide powder currently available (which is sickeningly sweet), or is it a more tolerable scent? | ||
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Post# 1203786 , Reply# 49 4/19/2024 at 11:21 by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Hi Steve!
I got a strong scent today of TIDE PRO, my sense of smell is coming back ! Ive been a flu victim lately!
It was in my 1961 GE top loader and suddenly I remembered Blue Cheer from the 60s. This TIDE to my head is not sweet its on the chemical side which I prefer. The only regulation in the US I am aware of is for hospital linens, they must be washed at a PH of 11.5 or more. And thats pretty darn high. I wonder what the German regulations are?? Ill look up your link Launderess ! Well that link is behind a paywall . Next. | ||
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Post# 1203791 , Reply# 51 4/19/2024 at 13:14 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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" I am aware of is for hospital linens, they must be washed at a PH of 11.5 or more"
Relative high pH is more function of having proper range for either chlorine or oxygen bleaching systems. CDC, Joint Commission on Accreditation have guidelines that call for healthcare/hospital linen to be laundered at 160°F (71°C) and held for 25 minutes. info.jcrinc.com/rs/494-MTZ-066/i... www.cdc.gov/infectioncont.... Not to drag this out with endless amounts of palaver; but healthcare/hospital laundry is a process with multiple parts. Rarely relying upon high wash temperatures alone. www.directsupply.com/blog... First and foremost in USA and elsewhere chlorine bleach pretty much has gone by wayside for healthcare/hospital laundry. Switch to chlorhexidine as topical antiseptic prompted this move. Chlorhexidine forms nasty brown stains on textiles if it comes into contact with chlorine bleach. Thus laundry must be well washed and rinsed and even then stains often will happen. Enter peracetic acid. www.europeancleaningjourn.... Hospital/healthcare laundry goes through many changes of water for just pre-wash and wash cycles alone. There will then be a bleach cycle, followed by several rinses including sour and or fabric conditioner baths. Intense cycles, high water temperatures, and many changes of water explain why grossly contaminated hospital/healthcare linen can be loaded into washers and emerge hygienically clean. Don't try this at home ladies and gentlemen: | ||
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Post# 1203793 , Reply# 52 4/19/2024 at 14:09 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Cold water and bacterial counts.
www.cambridge.org/core/jo... www.medicolinen.com/how-hot-does... www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article... www.researchgate.net/publication... Very long story short to get at any significant decontamination of laundry via temperature alone you'll need water temps starting at 150F with 160F being better and held for twenty or so minutes. Wash temps of 140F will reduce bacteria counts but not much as many would imagine. Addition of bleach (oxygen, AOB or chlorine) enhances decontamination, especially for wash done at lower temperatures (30F to 140F). Tumble drying at hot temperatures and or ironing subsequent to laundering will further decrease bacterial count. Issue domestic users will face in decontaminating laundry is home washing machines simply are not designed for serious germ killing. Everything from having door boots to a drain pump mean even if laundry is decontaminated in a cycle, new bacteria are soon reintroduced. Each time one drags laundry across door boot when wash cycle is completed (same boot that is contaminated with bacteria from laundry being dragged across it when loading), wash is infected again. Sort of same argument against "sanitize" cycles of dishwashers. Even if things were largely free of germs at end of cycle, soon as they were touched for unloading bacteria are reintroduced. That and simply sitting in cabinets of whatever does same. @Jetcone, Here is a handy chart if you're looking for where to begin research. www.thepearcefoundation.o... | ||
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Post# 1203833 , Reply# 53 4/20/2024 at 11:34 by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Launderess | ||
| Post# 1203839 , Reply# 54 4/20/2024 at 13:11 by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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Love my 162F washes and I soak for 3 hours using oxygen bleach on top the oxygen bleach in the detergent (powdered Tide w/ bleach). No door boot on the Maytag but rising steam should help kill some bacteria around the opening. I do use a folded towel placed around the lid to prevent steam/heat from escaping and prevent the console and inner workings from moisture and deterioration. I'll start wiping down the opening from here on out with the solution in the tub. It's already there and only takes a few seconds.
I find it odd the people get icky about fecal matter. We all (hopefully) do it everyday, it's a part of life. I find it even stranger that a gay man is weirded out by it. Don't you guys basically play in the sewer for fun? | ||
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Post# 1203863 , Reply# 55 4/21/2024 at 02:08 by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area) |
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"Play in the sewer" Dan, you know what they say about those who assume. | ||
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Post# 1203868 , Reply# 56 4/21/2024 at 05:50 by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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Post# 1203879 , Reply# 58 4/21/2024 at 09:48 by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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Can`t we even take a joke anymore these days without getting offended?
Dan you get a "like" for making me lough out loud when I read your post. As a gay man I`m not that easily offended anymore and as a formerly (at young age) bicurious man I can tell you what you breeders play for fun in can be way more filthy than what you think of what we play in. Just saying... | ||
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Post# 1203901 , Reply# 59 4/21/2024 at 16:20 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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@Jetcone
One of many ways true industrial washer/extractor differ from domestic machines is their ability to perform "sluice" cycles. That is remove bulk soils and foul matter from laundry. Industrial or commercial diaper services either for infants and or increasingly being offered for adults do not "flush" or rinse soiled linen. Everything is bunged into washer where one or more flush cycles will send solid matter down drains. Such washer/extractor have larger diameter holes in tub (better to allow foul matter to exit) and of course have dump valves, not pumps. This reduces chances of foul matter being carried over to subsequent loads. Domestic washing machines cannot handle sort this sort of laundry, at least not returning consistent hygienic results. Old school wash cycle for diapers at commercial laundry: (1) Five-minute cold rinse; (2) 10-minute soak in hot suds; (3) 10-minute soak in hot suds; (4) 10-minute soak in hot suds, with bleach; (5) five hot rinses with live steam; (6) six cold rinses, and a germicide solution is used in the third cold rinse; (7) water is extracted; (8) dried in tumblers under 125 pounds of live steam; (9) ready for folding and packing. After all that all fecal matter is *gone*. OTOH it explains why cloth diapers have (or had) such short useable lifespans. | ||
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Post# 1203906 , Reply# 60 4/21/2024 at 17:00 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Cold water setting on my European washing machines (Miele, AEG) is 30 degrees Celsius/86 degrees Fahrenheit.
Far as one can see all versions of Tide cold water detergents are meant for wash temps of 90 degrees F. This is only ten or so degrees under "warm" which is 40 degrees Celsius or 104 degrees Fahrenheit. Consumer Reports noted at the time that other versions of Tide including "Free and Gentle" worked perfectly well in warm water. With above in mind greatest energy savings likely comes from reducing wash temps from 140F to boil temps. European detergents offer products rated for 20 degrees Celsius which is a very chilly 68 degrees F. Personally would rather go with a detergent rated to perform across a range of temps rather than just "cold water" only. This if only because tap cold water temps in our neck of the woods varies. It is heavily influenced by outdoor weather and or say if boilers are firing for heat. For things like making coffee or tea there are times one has to let taps run for what seems like ages to bleed out "warm" water for something relatively cold. Both of our AEG washers are "tap cold fill" only and register complaints when say set to "cold" or "warm" and incoming water is sensed to be at or above set parameters. Good thing is that heater isn't engaged for long or at all. Downside is machines wipe out good portion of wash cycle time in response to not having to heat water. My older Miele isn't bothered. Miele washers of old had "cycle guarantee" programmed in. If water temp either as incoming or heated reaches selected temp quickly all machine does is turn off heater. It will remain in heating mode however until timer tells it's time to move on. | ||
| Post# 1203917 , Reply# 61 4/21/2024 at 18:54 by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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Post# 1203929 , Reply# 63 4/21/2024 at 23:55 by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.) |
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When my sister was born in 1955 Mom washed all of her diapers in our Bendix Economat in the basement and hung them up to dry on clotheslines stung under the ceiling of the basement. Then shortly after Mary was born Dad bought Mom our first dryer, a Norge Timeline dryer.
The dirty diapers were soaked in a diaper pail in a solution of Hexol and water while they were being held awaiting the laundry day. They were washed separately from the rest of the laundry using Ivory Snow and Snowy Bleach. Eddie | ||
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Post# 1203932 , Reply# 64 4/22/2024 at 00:26 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Hexol is still out there, but things have changed.
Then: www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_sea... www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_sea... Now: www.amazon.com/Hexol-Conc... Difference is today Hexol is not marketed as a disinfectant. Product is not registered by EPA as a "pesticide" or disinfectant hence no EPA registry number on label. Many products of old that once were routinely sold and taken for granted as disinfectants no longer are so today. Back in day nearly all chlorine bleaches were disinfectants, Clorox actively promoted this in marketing for their product. You have to check labels carefully as many versions of Clorox or other LCB sold are not EPA registered disinfectants. Ditto with Lysol (phenol/carbolic compounds removed or decreased), Pine Sol and many other pine cleaners.... With pine cleaners large issue is declining sources of pure pine oil which in turn have driven up prices. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine-Sol... | ||
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Post# 1204024 , Reply# 65 4/24/2024 at 14:05 by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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Post# 1204034 , Reply# 66 4/24/2024 at 17:35 by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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My box arrived yesterday. Will do a stained kitchen towel test this weekend. The scent is really nice. It’s not really floral or fruity. A sensible scent for a detergent.
On a similar note of scarcity, Walmart online is already sold out of the “original scent” of the Tide Evo detergent tiles. This post was last edited 04/24/2024 at 19:02 | ||
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Post# 1204064 , Reply# 67 4/25/2024 at 08:00 by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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@PeteK | ||
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Post# 1204073 , Reply# 68 4/25/2024 at 11:49 by appnut (TX) |
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Jon, from small town central texas, my options are Amazon at $37.49, Staples at $44.99, and Walmart at $52.00. Amazon & Walmart can deliver to my front door. Not sure about Staples. There's also a regional office supplies chain that supposedly has it on offer, but I have to log in for price. Target doesn't stock it. Nor does my local HEB grocery store. It's best for me to have it delivered to my house. I will be investigating the Downey Professional Volvoman showed us. I"ve only found it online at Walmart and it's $115.00. Staples is $23.39. Quipply is $104.00
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Post# 1204076 , Reply# 70 4/25/2024 at 15:07 by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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Jon; I just looked and yes . Says 4 days for delivery but I think I'll just wait rather than open an account with them as I already have my amazon account and would have to give my cc out to another company. BTW it's $49.99 cdn $37 USD. they also have the liquid version 120? loads for $39 Cdn. Free delivery over $35.
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| Post# 1204080 , Reply# 71 4/25/2024 at 17:03 by cycla-fabric (New Jersey (Northern)) | ||
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Post# 1204101 , Reply# 72 4/26/2024 at 06:32 by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Bob, thats great you have two options for Tide to your door! Steve let us know your impressions of the Downy.
The only fabric softener I would ever rave about was a forgotten one that Jeffadelpi got in a jug from some giant factory in the mid west. Would love to find that again !! Again it was for professional laundry only !
Petek Set that dial to C O L D | ||
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Post# 1204121 , Reply# 74 4/26/2024 at 15:20 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA) |
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cold water washing Cold water washing has already been here! | ||
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Post# 1204192 , Reply# 76 4/27/2024 at 16:16 by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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I performed the purposely stained kitchen towel test using 60 grams of powdered Tide Professional on the Normal cycle of a front-loading Speed Queen 7009. Results were impressive!
Follow link to see the towels in the thread where the other Tide detergents were tested. www.automaticwasher.org/c... | ||
| Post# 1204205 , Reply# 77 4/27/2024 at 22:46 by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
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Post# 1204226 , Reply# 78 4/28/2024 at 08:26 by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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@Frigilux | ||
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Post# 1204245 , Reply# 79 4/28/2024 at 12:28 by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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Jon... I caved and canceled my Amazon order and re-ordered through Staples. It should arrive hopefully Tuesday. While I was perusing the Staples site they had a BOGO for K cups so I'm taking advantage of that too. I never really thought of Staples for things like that but it appears they have a huge variety of things.
I'll give the tap cold setting a whirl. Maybe someone can answer this on my LG WM3700. The variable temperature setting buttons there's the usual button for selecting hot, warm, cold and a tap cold settings wash .However over on the top right corner of the panel there's a "cold wash" button. I've never used it and I've forgotten why. | ||
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Post# 1204259 , Reply# 81 4/28/2024 at 16:36 by appnut (TX) |
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Cold Wash Button
Petek, on my WM4200 that defaults to cold and not tap cold. Soo possibly in extreme cold water winters it might aded some hot to bring up to maybe 60F. My manual says it's supposed to add extra wash and rinse time, but I don't observe that it did anything beyond me adding an extra rinse or 2 anyway. Given I don't wash in cold water anyway. But with this Tide I will opt for that button. I did just go play with the controls adding that option. On delicates it added 5 minutes to the cycle and speed wash it added 10 minutes. On Heavy Duty, it changed the soil level from the highest to normal soil level. Option isn't available for cycles that default to hot-0-Whites, Allergiene, Sanitary.
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Post# 1204260 , Reply# 82 4/28/2024 at 16:42 by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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Post# 1204409 , Reply# 83 5/1/2024 at 13:49 by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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My box of powder arrived yesterday afternoon so of course I had to try it. First off I'm reading the box instructions and it seems geared towards toploaders stating to fill the machine with water first, add detergent, then clothes which you can't do in my front loader. The only reference for HE machines shows to use the max marking for large, the 5 mark loads in an HE machine which I thought was strange being as they don't use much water? So I filled the cup to the 3 mark for full loads. It was a mixed load, a set of queen size bed sheets, a pair of jeans, some tee's, sock, and a large bath towel.
Set the machine on heavy duty and cold water and the cycle took about 1 hour and 30 minutes. It did a good job I must say. BUT, the fragrance. I'm not a fan of it. I personally find it too overpowering and the closest I can come to describe it is maybe lavender? It permeated the family room as I sat watching tv. After drying I took the sheets upstairs and put them on the bed and it was already starting to stink up the bedroom. When I went to bed a few hours later and walked in the bedroom the smell was still there and that's all I could smell when I got into bed. I'm not saying it's a horrid smell and in fact many people may love it. Next time I'll cut it back to half the amount being as I'm using a front loader.. I wonder why they don't mention front loaders on the box instructions | ||
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Post# 1204413 , Reply# 84 5/1/2024 at 16:31 by appnut (TX) |
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IF memory serves me correctly, you have an LG front loader. You have the ability to add more than one extra rinse and I take advanatage of that for loads of towels. But you can also do that with other loads, I don't have issues with detergent scents because I rinse it out well. And good grief, it's probably no more than 3 gallons at most for each rinse fill. I have no qualms rinsing. ABBA recorded that song Rinsing Queen. I"m looking forard to trying this new deterent but I still have a good supply of the boxes of Tide w/Bleach and Tide Original. I only do about 3-5 loads a month at best. I only use between 1200 & `1600 gallons of water a month during months I don't havee to water the yard.
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| Post# 1204415 , Reply# 85 5/1/2024 at 16:53 by panasonicvac (Northern Utah) | ||
I see from reply #30 that this stuff is similar to Tide Plus Bleach. I haven't used Tide Bleach in a very long time but I'm sure the box I had was before they changed the formulas because the one I had was non HE, it was a good scent I thought. Is the fragrance of the new Professional powder similar to if not the same as Tide Ultra OXI? That's what my local Costco sells and I don't like the scent myself. I'd much rather use Original or Mountain Spring instead.
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Post# 1204425 , Reply# 86 5/1/2024 at 18:29 by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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Hi Bob. Yes LG wm3700 and I added an extra rinse as always. I'll reduce the dose next time. I was out a good portion of this afternoon and when I walked through the front door I could still smell a hint of it. It certainly isn't as bad like the experiences I've had in the past with iirc Gain and Bounce sheets which some people, like my neighbor friend loves. But as far as it washing in cold water it seemed to work very well. I may try the varied stain test on an old white piece of whatever I can find here... and put it in the next load.
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Post# 1204452 , Reply# 87 5/2/2024 at 09:45 by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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@PeteK | ||
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Post# 1204471 , Reply# 88 5/2/2024 at 14:27 by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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Jon, that old ad. Only the old boomers remember that one. lol.
A friend popped by this morning and we were sitting out front having coffee and he said something so funny I spit my coffee all down the front of my shirt and shorts soI did a 1/4 size load this morning on cold and put in about to the level 1 on the provided scoop and it was much much better. Obviously I overdid it the first time. They likely do it on purpose because if you're not careful and looking at what you scoop out at eye level it's easy to over dose and of course have to buy more sooner. I'll get some dollar store measuring cups/spoons to use | ||
| Post# 1204504 , Reply# 89 5/2/2024 at 22:36 by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
Hot or Cold 
Someone up thread mentioned P.H which got me thinking..
Tide professional Tide with Bleach (oxygen) The newer Tide Oxi Two things they all have in common is Washing Soda and Sodium Percarbonate (activated) I know most here are not fans of Washing soda for all kinds of reasons but my guess is that the above powdered detergents all contain a hefty percentage of the stuff? You can kinda tell by the weight of the box. I realize surfactant chemistry has come a long way, but is it the alkalinity from the sodium carbonate that really makes the difference in cold/cool water washing. Maybe I’m over simplifying? | ||
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Post# 1204517 , Reply# 90 5/3/2024 at 07:27 by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Stan that is part of it but if you read up, you will see the "new" surfactants I was talking about that have been built with longer chain fatty acids , the longer the better in cooler water. So its a combination of both. I need to order more PH strips to test this new detergent and see where it falls !
Part 2 coming soon.
PeteK so glad you got the coffee out ! | ||
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Post# 1204522 , Reply# 91 5/3/2024 at 08:15 by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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According to the SDS it falls at pH 10.0 - 11.5 in a 10% aqueous solution which means it is just as alkaline or caustic like any other mainstream powder detergent.
BTW wouldn`t a test strip be terribly inaccurate? There are more accurate digital pH meters out there and a look in the MSDS dosn`t cost a cent. This post was last edited 05/03/2024 at 08:30 | ||
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Post# 1204523 , Reply# 92 5/3/2024 at 08:31 by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Good to know Stefan ! | ||
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Post# 1204544 , Reply# 93 5/3/2024 at 12:44 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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"The experience certainly left me with the impression that coin-laundries were unsanitary places to do my wash. I still believe that."
They are, more so since most owners have cranked down supposedly "hot" water temps. Starting with surfaces of nearly everything in a laundromat (including handles of washers and dryers), moving onto carts that are used to sort both soiled laundry and for holding wash out of washing machines or dryers.... Then there's fact you don't know who has been do you? In Europe SQ franchise laundromats are touting ozone technology to cope with germ factor. Haven't seen anything like it in USA however. speedqueenlaundry.scot... LaundryLux by Electrolux has "Sanitizing Rinse" option. laundrylux.com/blog/laundry-how-... Then you have efforts such as this: hollowaystreetlaundromat.com/blo... Truth to tell ever since M. Pasteur's discovery of germs there was a war declared by some on sending laundry out. This applied to laundresses right up to industrial "steam" or "power" laundries. Off bat housewives were warned that to protect all she held near and dear her washing should be done at home. This as opposed to sending it out where it could be mingled with laundry from all sorts of persons. From about 1920's or so well past 1940's laundries once gave tours so housewives and other customers could satisfy themselves about conditions. If there was a case of diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough or any other infectious disease on street laundries would refuse to collect. They had to, if Her Indoors got wind otherwise she wouldn't send her washing. Long story short there are good reasons why so many laundries of old had "sanitary" or some such as their name. | ||
| Post# 1204566 , Reply# 94 5/3/2024 at 20:15 by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
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Those were the days ! | ||
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Post# 1204567 , Reply# 95 5/3/2024 at 20:31 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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When phosphates were either limited or outright banned laundry detergent makers scrambled to find other alkaline builders. Nothing in whole or part replaces what phosphates do alone, thus usually laundry powder detergents contain a blend.
Use of alkalis for wash day goes back to ancient times when ashes from certain plants or wood was source. Then came silicates (water glass) which made up huge part of Henkel's famous "Persil" formula. PERborate and SILicate, get it? Per-Sil. Washing soda being on lower end of alkaline pH scale is suited for domestic laundry. It's also relatively inexpensive either used alone (as a booster) or blended into wash powders. If you look closely many powdered laundry detergents for domestic use do contain other alkalis long used for institutional detergents. Sodium hydroxide (lye), sodium metasilicate and others. Purpose of alkali are many and simple on laundry day. Raising pH of break/suds water causes textile fibers (natural ones such as cotton and linen) to open up weave of fabric thus releasing soils. For institutional laundries desired pH range at end of wash bath is between 11-12 pH. Domestic products OTOH usually aim for something slightly lower. One reason for this is "homestyle" washing machines normally are made from softer metals that will be quickly attacked by repeated exposure to high pH. | ||
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Post# 1204568 , Reply# 96 5/3/2024 at 20:46 by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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That is cool tech | ||
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Post# 1204582 , Reply# 97 5/3/2024 at 23:43 by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA) |
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cold water washer I thought washers today do cold water washing in theory due to dumbed down temps. | ||
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Post# 1204590 , Reply# 98 5/4/2024 at 05:03 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Sodium & potassium silicates have it over sodium and potassium carbonates for many reasons when it comes to laundry detergents.
Silicates have slightly higher pH than carbonates but less than sodium hydroxide. In terms of soil suspension and removal properties, wetting, and rinsing silicates beat washing soda. www.texfinity.com/dynmedi... Besides functioning as source or alkali on wash day silicates also work as a builder as well. Silicates are likely closer to one thing out of a box that could replace phosphates as it comes. Fritz Henkel's first "detergent" Bleich-Soda (bleach soda) made from sodium silicate and calcined (water-free) soda. It promised to whiten and clean linen without harsh bleaching agents (read eau de Javel/chlorine bleach). www.antiquariat-kastanien... What Henkel got ahold of there was one of first laundry "breaks". Alkaline pH in water of silicate and soda when combined with hot (or boiling water) broke soils and muck from textiles. Via water softening properties soap reside would be leached out of fabrics and settle into water. https://www.ebay.de/itm/395088641742... This step was important as soap was still queen of wash day. Presoaking or prewashing with an alkaline water bath in addition to above mentioned things also reduced the acidity of textiles (from coming into contact with human bodily fluids) which in turn would make job of subsequent washing with soap easier. Henkel's later invention "Persil" built upon previous bleach-soda formula in that it contained soap, silicate and perborate. A remarkable combination when used property at high temperatures was more than capable of producing quite clean and white laundry. Most tellingly Persil did not contain soda IIRC. Henkel loved themselves some silicates because they came out with yet another product based upon them; "Sil". Sil today is a spot/stain remover, but its original incarnation was perborate bleach and silicates. One took wash that had already been done (usually boiled) using Persil (soap and silicates), then boiled them again in this "bleaching" rinse. Containing more bleach but no soap this treatment would remove stains, treat yellowed fabrics and remove other discolorations that survived the wash. When using soap for wash day first rinse is usually in hot water or things were boiled, so there you are. For generations at least in Germany above brought about the Holy Trinity of wash day of Henko, Persil and Sil. Introduction of Sunil and later Persil 59 put an end to that holy trinity. Once soap was replaced by detergent all that presoaking and boiling afterwards was largely not required. | ||
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Post# 1204597 , Reply# 99 5/4/2024 at 09:06 by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Tested powdered Tide Professional on a purposely stained kitchen towel, this time using cool water. I paused the washer as it began to drain the wash water—it still drained the rest of the water, but I was able to stick an instant read thermometer into the load and it registered 74 degrees F. As it had just completed a 50 minute wash tumble, I assume the water was at least a few degrees higher earlier in that portion of the cycle.
Interestingly, although it may be hard to discern in the photos, Tide Professional was slightly better at removing the very tough stains in warm water—around 100-105 degrees F. Several other items in the load had smaller, garden variety stains on them: chocolate syrup & Rao’s marinara on a cotton/poly blend shirt; soy sauce, blood, blue shaving cream and Colgate charcoal toothpaste on kitchen and bath linens. All of those stains were completely removed. FYI: Cold tap water here—having purged the pipes of the warmer “indoor” water—is currently 57 degrees F. Since the cool water test was not an improvement on the warm water test, I’m not going to bother testing Tide Pro in tap cold. For this latest—and last—test: Washer: front-loading Speed Queen model 7009; Normal cycle; max soil level (50 minute wash tumble); cool water setting. Detergent: 60g powdered Tide Professional detergent. Kitchen towel was stained, then allowed to dry for 12 hours before laundering. Photo 1: The “before” towel Photo 2: After laundering using the cool water setting Photo 3: After laundering using the warm water setting | ||
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Post# 1204600 , Reply# 100 5/4/2024 at 09:19 by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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@Eugene that is really cool !
My attempt in cold water, it was spaghetti sauce as well but was a week old. This is white linen. Our cold runs about the same as yours. | ||
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Post# 1204663 , Reply# 101 5/5/2024 at 01:55 by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 1204675 , Reply# 102 5/5/2024 at 07:14 by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Tide w/bleach | ||
| Post# 1204703 , Reply# 103 5/5/2024 at 14:19 by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
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Post# 1204778 , Reply# 105 5/6/2024 at 15:05 by mysteryclock (Franklin, TN) |
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Remarkably, I ordered a box of Tide Professional AND THEN found this thread. It's always nice when the Internets are all thinking the same thing, about the same time.
Rookie question with this: Is there any harm in washing on warm? That is, will I be deactivating or not-optimally-activating whole groups of ingredients by turning up the temps just a bit? Thanks! | ||
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Post# 1204783 , Reply# 106 5/6/2024 at 15:25 by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Post# 1204786 , Reply# 107 5/6/2024 at 15:28 by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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Post# 1204787 , Reply# 108 5/6/2024 at 15:45 by mysteryclock (Franklin, TN) |
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For reference, I just found the service manual for my washer - GFW450SSM1WW, and it states the following about temps:
* Cold can be tempered by cycling of hot water valve to achieve target temperature of 70°F (21°C). * Warm can be tempered by cycling of hot and cold valves to achieve target temperature of 86°F (30°C). * Hot can be tempered by cycling of cold water valve to achieve target temperature of 110°F (43°C). * Sanitize can be tempered by cycling of cold water valve, or heater operation, to achieve target temperature of 160°F (71°C). ...which reads like what P&G is looking for is actually what GE calls "warm" anyway. Figures. | ||
| Post# 1204791 , Reply# 109 5/6/2024 at 16:19 by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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86F is warm and 110F is hot???
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Post# 1204795 , Reply# 110 5/6/2024 at 17:07 by mysteryclock (Franklin, TN) |
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| Post# 1204798 , Reply# 111 5/6/2024 at 18:52 by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
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Post# 1204826 , Reply# 112 5/7/2024 at 07:27 by JetCone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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@Dan | ||
| Post# 1204834 , Reply# 113 5/7/2024 at 10:19 by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
I drank the Kool-Aid !!!
Who could resist the Mother General of Aworg? Bought Saturdee on Amazon, it arrived yesterday, and I opened it immediately and started a small load of nasty stuff hampered in the kitchen Visimatic. Pete is right:the smell is intense which was surprising since the Amazon ad said unscented. Puzzling. But I like the scent; it's pretty much Tide with Bleach Powder.
The load of sox and towels and Roxy's kerchief were--as my Aunt Helen would say, "filthy, maggotty dirty," and I threw in some dark colored socks to follow Jon Charles' new commandment to wash cold with darks and whites together. I rinsed the load this morning in my Canadian Beatty for Pete and Paul. So busy training Roxy, I missed this classic wonderful thread last week, but there she is in the last pic--LEASH FREE. PIX in a moment. The Proof is in the Pudding. | ||
| Post# 1204835 , Reply# 114 5/7/2024 at 10:20 by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
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| Post# 1204836 , Reply# 115 5/7/2024 at 10:27 by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
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. just checking the phone because the first version looks so grainy
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Post# 1204843 , Reply# 116 5/7/2024 at 12:57 by JetCone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Mickey!!! I am glad you drank the Kool-Aid. After all the testing I just ordered my second box.
Mother General is so Proud of you! Those washers are lovely and the cleaning seems stupendous LOL ! Who would have thought COLD would ever come CLEAN ???!!
Love that Easy Spiralator in the Beatty !!!
Roxy looks like a DOLL! Congratulations, I am now owned by Pegasus - completely!
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| Post# 1204894 , Reply# 117 5/7/2024 at 21:46 by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
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What a handsome guy! Artey's looking down smiling at you two, and isn't it nice, for us mid-century men, to know that our new best friends might outlive us or check out when we do. Hallelujah !
"Who would have thought cold would ever come clean." What a great quote--one for the books. Bartlett is envious. | ||
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Post# 1204914 , Reply# 118 5/8/2024 at 06:52 by JetCone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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Thank you Mickey So you wash in the Kenmore, and have the Beatty standing by for the rinse !! COOL!
Oh sorry I mean COLD !
Peg, she was born a tripod and you'd never know it ! Fast fast, they named her Pegleg, which when I rescued her I didn't like, and she got out in the backyard one day and flew around the yard! SO I changed her name to Pegasus the Flying Horse !!!
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| Post# 1204938 , Reply# 119 5/8/2024 at 12:03 by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
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CHEESUS
I never noticed, need more glasses. God bless her sweet heart. Dogs are so amazing:THEY never notice a missing leg, going on just as happy as their four-legged friends. Have seen a bunch of youtubings about them. She is really beautiful--love the coat.
Washer stuff in a moment with pix. Thanks for asking, Jon! 1~ In Homage to my beloved aunts Mickey and Margaret who washed in the kitchen, I always have a washer in the kitchen, this season, the 64 Visimatic. Look at Roxy spying, lol. 2~You picked a perfect day to ask; it's really windy today and clothing comes as soft as if Downied, so I really took advantage with the second load in the washing in the Canadian Easy, rinsing in the fabulous Borg Norge. 3~Ahhhh, the wind. I waited for a lull since they were flapping madly and unphotographable. | ||
| Post# 1204939 , Reply# 120 5/8/2024 at 12:05 by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
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Post# 1204960 , Reply# 121 5/8/2024 at 16:10 by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers) |
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OMG | ||
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Post# 1205126 , Reply# 122 5/10/2024 at 17:14 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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| Post# 1205413 , Reply# 123 5/15/2024 at 00:05 by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
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LOL | ||
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Post# 1205417 , Reply# 124 5/15/2024 at 07:10 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Was making a joke, but guess it fell flat, as per....
Hard to say really.
With so many men about (father, husband, laundry manager and male staff)hardly seems like war time. More so since male staff at laundry were largely fit and rather young men. Family aren't dirt poor or working class, but perhaps bit higher, say lower middle class. Both Madame et Mere can afford to send their washing out which means their husbands earned a decent enough living. Post WWII laundry day for the poor others who couldn't (or wouldn't pay) for laundry service was either done at home by hand, at the wash house or other arrangements. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/... | ||
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Post# 1205418 , Reply# 125 5/15/2024 at 07:41 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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British advertising, marketing, propaganda or whatever you want to call it was full of various sorts of "domestic bliss" clip clips.
All largely were in aid of selling something or other that promised to make Her Indoors life easier. As in above clip you'll notice these sorts of things were aimed at certain demographic of society. While middle class housewives in suburbs were getting washing machines, and those in town using laundry services those further down socio-economic ladder weren't that lucky. Germany by 1950's was going same way. | ||
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